PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[unholyjoe]

I wouldn't even know where to start. So I would make a topic and ask unless someone beat me to it. Few people here that will have something smart to say probably but I have seen some really helpful people give a hand and help those who have asked. So I'm sure someone would be willing to help if it isn't complicated and if it can be done.

we cant get away from smart mouthed people unfortunately... the world is infested with them... soon we will have an actual apocalypse.

but for now... when needing help... either PM or go to the modding section and ask for help... the forum is designed for people to ask when they have need of something. may already be something there that will help. dont let the whiners and nay-sayers discourage you or anyone else from wanting to learn.

 

[A Nice Cup of Tea]

I like the wandering hordes, but I do have a problem with their current implementation.

The basic rhythm of the game is that you go out and about exploring/scavenging/looting/resource-gathering during the day when the zombies are fairly placid and then return to your base at night when they're more active so that you can cook, sort and store the day's loot finds, and craft things.

(At this point various people will be establishing their "expert player" credentials by saying they stay out at night too - that's fine, but most novice or intermediate players won't be doing that; the game naturally leads you into a cycle of out-in-the-day and home-at-night.)

And that's where my problem with the wandering hordes come in. Because each wandering horde is aimed at your location, during the day it seems fairly natural. As you move around, you will meet some hordes as they come directly towards you but others you will only see as they go past (because you're no longer in the place that they were aimed at). It really does give the indication that there are hordes randomly wandering.

But at night, because you're in your base and not moving around, every wandering horde will be aimed directly at your base.

This is a problem for two reasons. The first is that it is a bit "gamey" and obvious. It breaks the verisimillitude of the hordes "randomly" wandering because it's clear that they are being thrown at your position by the game. The second - and worse - problem is that even if the wandering horde doesn't sense you and doesn't go for you, their path will cause them to smack against the walls of your base and whatever defenses you have. This isn't about safety - some decent walls and spikes will hold them off - but since it happens pretty much every night it means that you have to spend time every morning gathering the materials and repairing those defenses. And that's just tedious busywork that takes up time you could be spending doing more enjoyable game activities.

I'm hoping that faatal's AI improvements will mean that in a17 they're more likely to be able to walk around your base if they don't sense you rather than trying to burrow through it, but the constant daily maintenance is still a pain in the arse that gets in the way of enjoying the game.

My usual - rather heavy handed - solution to this is to use an underground or stilt base so that the wandering hordes (assuming they don't sense you) will walk straight over/under it. But it would be really nice if the aiming of the hordes had a bit more of a random factor in it, so that they're less likely to come at you head on and get stuck on your base's defenses and more likely to be able to walk around it (again, assuming they don't sense you).

 

[meganoth]

I'm hoping that faatal's AI improvements will mean that in a17 they're more likely to be able to walk around your base if they don't sense you rather than trying to burrow through it, but the constant daily maintenance is still a pain in the arse that gets in the way of enjoying the game.

...

But it would be really nice if the aiming of the hordes had a bit more of a random factor in it, so that they're less likely to come at you head on and get stuck on your base's defenses and more likely to be able to walk around it (again, assuming they don't sense you).

You do know that such a random factor is already in the game, they don't go straight for your position? But naturally the bigger your base the less chance that the trajectory of the horde misses your base.

When I play SP I often use a simple house as main base with just a ring of spikes around it and most of the wandering hordes just walk by even though I have been in the base for a time and not wandering around.

One solution could be that random hordes are less frequent in the night (and maybe as a counter-balance screamers more likely at night).

 

[The Gronk]

<snipped for space>

I was under the impression that wandering hordes were spawned because of the heat-map, the zombies are attracting to the activity. If I've got a forge running and I'm hammering together rebar frames I kind of expect it to attract some attention.

My only gripe is that they tend to wander past without investigating the noise that attracted them in the first place. It's generally assumed that zombies are attracted to light and heat so it's a bit weird that they don't attack a running forge when that's what attracted them in the first place.

 

[meganoth]

I was under the impression that wandering hordes were spawned because of the heat-map, the zombies are attracting to the activity. If I've got a forge running and I'm hammering together rebar frames I kind of expect it to attract some attention.
My only gripe is that they tend to wander past without investigating the noise that attracted them in the first place. It's generally assumed that zombies are attracted to light and heat so it's a bit weird that they don't attack a running forge when that's what attracted them in the first place.

No, only screamers are spawned because of the heat map. You can see wandering hordes even while looting a random house, their spawning probably depends only on elapsed time

 

[KingSlayerGM]

Since you guys in the US are not watching the game today.. how about a new video??

 

[grrmisfit]

No, only screamers are spawned because of the heat map. You can see wandering hordes even while looting a random house, their spawning probably depends only on elapsed time

they spawn once a day and unless changed are on a set 7 day rotation.

 

[Tin]

they spawn once a day and unless changed are on a set 7 day rotation.

*Just Correcting*

Screamers spawn base on the heat map.

Wandering hordes 'can' spawn up to 3 times a day in A16.4b8

 

[Lonestarcanuck]

if I did my math right. paying $24.99 for the game and having played a bit over 3500 hours the game cost me $0.007 per hour of game play.

so I can't complain about the investment.

now if we had monthly or quarterly updates and the game moved to a subscription (like everything else seems to be) I would go for that.

TFP - having been in the software industry for a long long time (since '83 with 15 years at Microsoft including the games division (EBU)) Moving to a subscription or micro payment model is what you should be doing - not that is my personal view based on conversation with friends in the industry and what I have see us do at my firm.

it would require a development model that has at the very least quarterly updates, downloadable content, and options to jump in with key items. I also think if the game can scale to 100+ players easily on a server that TFP could host a couple of official servers allowing you to get a lot more feedback on game dynamics.

Right now you have a model you are following, like most games is broken long term. companies like Microsoft know the subscription model and micro payments are the way to go.

Something to consider. Remember all good things come to and end. look at Everquest 1M+ paying followers, Asheron's Call 1M+ paying followers, I am sure there are many games in this downward spiral)

 

[TSBX]

Shut up, you. I'm milking this $25 as far as it will get me.

 

[The Gronk]

No, only screamers are spawned because of the heat map. You can see wandering hordes even while looting a random house, their spawning probably depends only on elapsed time

I honestly thought the horde turned up because I was making too much noise digging or battering down doors. Correlation is not causation, although often mistaken as such.

 

[unholyjoe]

me too for milking game... paying for a dlc may be something different but i do not want subscription gaming nor do i want to be forced to play on a server (thats why i gave up WOW) not my way of playing a game since i do single player mostly.

@Gronk check the spawning.xml you might see the light on that.

 

[PiercedFromWithin]

Yep, they spawn just because they feel like spawning, and then walk in the general direction of where you are as they spawn. I think you tend to notice them the most when you are fixing things or looting things or building things because you are staying in one place more until they get near you. When you're out running around they're more likely to spawn somewhere nearby and you may or may not happen to see them as they wander towards someplace you used to be.

I might prefer them to be aimed a little bit more randomly, or at least have wider range for "in your general direction" but if they don't get stuck on buildings and start destroying them just because they think there are braaaains in the walls it will help a lot.

I've heard that they do tend to go around if they don't get hit by a spike or something else that makes them mad, but I've constantly seen them obsessively destroying everything they come into contact with. I come across them all the time trying to murder those big iron rocks scattered around("hey, that's my iron you're tunneling through!") and we actually had to build them an exit to the house across the street from our base in one game so they could bumble all the way through it instead of just smashing everything. On the one hand it looks stupid when they do that, aaaand on the other hand our [inactive] forge was upstairs and we were keeping stuff in the garage with our minibikes.

 

[The Gronk]

me too for milking game... paying for a dlc may be something different but i do not want subscription gaming nor do i want to be forced to play on a server (thats why i gave up WOW) not my way of playing a game since i do single player mostly.
@Gronk check the spawning.xml you might see the light on that.

I've already spent far too many years ploughing through other peoples code, now I avoid it like the plague unless I need to alter it or study it.

I also reserve a special hatred for xml.

I'd do it if it was necessary but not until then

 

[Guppycur]

we cant get away from smart mouthed people unfortunately... the world is infested with them... soon we will have an actual apocalypse.
but for now... when needing help... either PM or go to the modding section and ask for help... the forum is designed for people to ask when they have need of something. may already be something there that will help. dont let the whiners and nay-sayers discourage you or anyone else from wanting to learn.

The modding community here is extremely helpful, and especially collaborative... You'd be surprised at some of the team ups and assists that happen both on and off the forums. The number 1 advice to an aspiring modders is "look at another mod, see how the feature you want works, and try it." Modders /typically/ don't want to do the work for you (unless it's an original idea), but they'll help you get there.

 

[The Gronk]

The modding community here is extremely helpful, and especially collaborative... You'd be surprised at some of the team ups and assists that happen both on and off the forums. The number 1 advice to an aspiring modders is "look at another mod, see how the feature you want works, and try it." Modders /typically/ don't want to do the work for you (unless it's an original idea), but they'll help you get there.

Most programmers are like that. Show that you're willing to try, even if it's completely wrong, and they'll usually point you in the right direction.

 

[canadianbluebeer]

The modding community here is extremely helpful, and especially collaborative... You'd be surprised at some of the team ups and assists that happen both on and off the forums. The number 1 advice to an aspiring modders is "look at another mod, see how the feature you want works, and try it." Modders /typically/ don't want to do the work for you (unless it's an original idea), but they'll help you get there.

That's how I got into modding. Looking at existing ones, tweaking a few things, learning what does what, then I started making a few of my own.

I've already starting looking at some 7dtd mods, and do plan on trying to make one come A17.

(no point now, since we are so close, and so many things are changing)

Programming (bleah) is no different. Look at what exists, and try. Learn. fail. try again.

 

[saintones]

Can I just get a hammer that arcs lighting and flies to my hand when I raise it. I can just fly around, who needs a gyrocopter..We can just call it an "epic weapon"..No balancing required :smile-new:

 

[Guppycur]

The lightning and flying away, fairly easy... The reappearance, also easy... The return animation, not so much. Although doable. If you're morte.

 

[meganoth]

Can I just get a hammer that arcs lighting and flies to my hand when I raise it. I can just fly around, who needs a gyrocopter..We can just call it an "epic weapon"..No balancing required :smile-new:

Can't, Epic would sue or claim the weapon as theirs. :smile-new: