Viktoriusiii
New member
playercoords x;y;
if either one is player.bedroll +/- 100 blocks then player outside of base
distance between player and bedroll/next claimblock really isnt all that hard to measure
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PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17
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if either one is player.bedroll +/- 100 blocks then player outside of base
distance between player and bedroll/next claimblock really isnt all that hard to measure
The Gronk
Colon Pounder
That assumes everyone only has a single base. Most people have a secondary or even tertiary base for forges and workbenches. That system could also be "gamed" with multiple land claim blocks.playercoords x;y;if either one is player.bedroll +/- 100 blocks then player outside of base
distance between player and bedroll/next claimblock really isnt all that hard to measure
The idea has been floated before, there's always something you didn't think of when you pit your algorithm against players
Crater Creator
Community Moderator
On the question of could you do what CplCritter is asking, sure. You wouldn’t need a higher zombie cap and you wouldn’t need to define what’s inside versus outside a base. The zombies that are just ‘around’ an area come from the biome spawner. It would be a matter of wandering horde zombies “aggro”-ing biome spawner zombies.
On the question of should they do that, I agree with unholyjoe. A lot of people seem to view wandering hordes as targeting the player. I don’t. Your character only sees hordes wandering through the local area because the local area is all your character can see. Your character can’t say whether there aren’t hordes wandering aimlessly in all directions all over the world, any more than they can say whether trees falling in the forest with no one around to hear them make a sound. The way I see it, the fact that the game doesn’t simulate all those faraway hordes is merely a performance optimization.
If you agree with this premise that they’re just passing through rather than targeting the player, it wouldn’t make sense for them to all head to a unified point from many directions. Even if the biome spawner zombies start following the wandering horde, they’d just join the conga line since the wandering horde’s destination is ‘yonder’.
To get the gameplay CplCritter seeks, I would increase the number of wandering hordes, since each comes from a different direction, while decreasing the zombies per horde so that the total zombie count is unchanged.
On the question of should they do that, I agree with unholyjoe. A lot of people seem to view wandering hordes as targeting the player. I don’t. Your character only sees hordes wandering through the local area because the local area is all your character can see. Your character can’t say whether there aren’t hordes wandering aimlessly in all directions all over the world, any more than they can say whether trees falling in the forest with no one around to hear them make a sound. The way I see it, the fact that the game doesn’t simulate all those faraway hordes is merely a performance optimization.
If you agree with this premise that they’re just passing through rather than targeting the player, it wouldn’t make sense for them to all head to a unified point from many directions. Even if the biome spawner zombies start following the wandering horde, they’d just join the conga line since the wandering horde’s destination is ‘yonder’.
To get the gameplay CplCritter seeks, I would increase the number of wandering hordes, since each comes from a different direction, while decreasing the zombies per horde so that the total zombie count is unchanged.
unholyjoe
QA
very viable if i understood it... you essentially increase the spawn rate but lower the zombie count to keep performance manageable. that way the more random spawns would look better and still keep withing Horde purpose.
if people are getting targeted then it is because they were seen, heard or it could have been a screamer called horde. i have in a16.4b8 seen countless wandering hordes and havent had any target me yet barring stupidity on my part... ya know... damn deer walks by and you just have to shoot him and chase him down...
but i like CC's solution.
CplCritter
New member
That is true. The hordes aren't targeting you, they just spawn heading in your direction so having others spawn with the horde that are targeting you would take away from that - the horde is passing by - feeling.
I do like your idea of smaller hordes passing by from different directions. I guess the origin of my idea was smply to create a different type of event that both catches you by surprise and is unpredictable... almost a cross between a screamer horde and a wondering horde. I'm a big fan of the screamer horde, but... you know it is coming because of that blood curdling scream. That scream can get the adrennaline going, but also lets you know what is to come.
The premise of the event I'm talking about could be 'something you did but didn't realize you did it' attracted zombies from all around. Basically a screamer event without the scream.
On this topic, maybe more event-types added in general would be a good idea. It would really switch things up and keep you looking over your sholder more often. Surrounded by dogs would be a bit too much though lol. Please no 360 degree zombie dogs converging on your position... That would just be a death sentance.
Edit -
I'm assuming this would be a big task to be ready for A17, but maybe some ideas for an update or A18? Or even a mod that adds a variety of different events. Some real danger/punishment could be inflicted if events happened more often with more variety... You would completely forget the zombie count is lower if events increased in frequency - even if they were slightly smaller counts than one big horde. BTW, that one big horde coming your dicrection is still an awesome event so I am not trying to downplay the part it plays in the game at all.
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CplCritter
New member
+1 - What are your thoughts on the difficulty level of something like this being implemented?very viable if i understood it... you essentially increase the spawn rate but lower the zombie count to keep performance manageable. that way the more random spawns would look better and still keep withing Horde purpose.
if people are getting targeted then it is because they were seen, heard or it could have been a screamer called horde. i have in a16.4b8 seen countless wandering hordes and havent had any target me yet barring stupidity on my part... ya know... damn deer walks by and you just have to shoot him and chase him down...
but i like CC's solution.
CplCritter
New member
I'm right there with you, unholyjoe.
It sounds like TFP has made 7DTD more mod friendly so I'm sure a lot of good will come from it. I understand the concept of code and can read and understand a lot of it, but I am far from being a modder. Maybe some day when I have more time I will tinker around with it, but with 4 young ones and working full-time I am just greatful for the times I actually get to game.
PiercedFromWithin
New member
Yes, it just doesn't work the same as it does in other areas. If you are in the snow biome and it snows(or you jump in a lake) you get wet. If you go back to your base and sit around the campfire, you stay wet. If you sit around for a whole day or two, you stay just as wet. I thought I saw it go down by 1% one time but I was probably mistaken. I even built a room on the roof of my base with no doors or windows, just enough room for me and a campfire, and still stayed fully wet forever. So I doubt building even higher would help. You don't dry out until you leave the biome(which is a problem because it tends to be cold there).
It's been a while now, so I'm not 100% sure if I tried other POIs or not(to see if it's just anything built on a spot that started as a snow block) but I think so. I've upgraded and reformatted my computer since then so I should probably check again in case it was just some weird random thing with my old install.
My first long game started in the snow and I lived there for a long time, so this kind of became my pet bug. I made a thread about it and never got any good answers beyond the basics of how it's supposed to work. I tried posting it as a bug report but I don't think it ever got replied to. I checked after each update to a16 and it always behaved the same. So I feel obligated to dredge it up once in a while in the hope it will get fixed(or at least explained so I can reject the explanation). I could understand and even agree that you maybe shouldn't dry out if you are outside, standing in the cold snow. But indoors, on a hardwood floor, you should be fine.
Once you get some decent clothes and some food, living in the snow isn't so bad if you don't mind being 60% wet all the time.
crazywildfire
New member
I wouldn't even know where to start. So I would make a topic and ask unless someone beat me to it. Few people here that will have something smart to say probably but I have seen some really helpful people give a hand and help those who have asked. So I'm sure someone would be willing to help if it isn't complicated and if it can be done.
CplCritter
New member
Agreed, this is an awesome community. 4sheetzngeegles read my posts and sent me a pm with a link to an app that makes it a bit easier to read code. Will definitely be checking it out. I am a fast learner, but highly doubt I would have the time to create a mod worthy of this game before A18 comes out.
Shout out to 4sheetzngeegles for the assist.
Shout out to 4sheetzngeegles for the assist.
Crater Creator
Community Moderator
In theory, all zombies are either avoidable, or it's obvious when they're coming. Wandering hordes and biome spawner zombies won't notice a stealthy player, and screamer and Blood Moon hordes only arrive with a loud noise. In practice, there are bugs and edge cases and whatnot, such that sometimes the first indicator of zombies is one smacking you in the back.
The feedback is pretty unanimous that people don't like that. It's not really added challenge so much as it's random luck. So I don't see the allure of zombies that come after you without warning. If a horde is attracted because of 'something you did,' when in reality you didn't do anything, players will tear their hair out trying to establish the cause and effect relationship (since it's so important to their survival) that doesn't exist.
CplCritter
New member
I see your point and it is a good one. Every player is going to want something different - hence why TFP is brilliant in the Vanilla + mod format. That is why I swiched my thought into this is something that could maybe implemented into a mod. It was a raw idea when I first posted and developed as all of you added your input, so thank you!
I do agree that the feeling of "not enough zombies are spawning" could be fixed by adding more frequent and more random spawns of DIFFERENT types horde events - making it easier to control the demand on computers, but satisfy that itch to have swarms of zombies coming after you. I have 3 thoughts on the subject:
1 - Vanilla = More variety of horde events take place, but tiered to what events take place by player lvl.
2 - Vanilla = In options, player can go down list of events and check/uncheck horde events they want in their game play.
3 - Mod = Whatever the hell the modder wants to create... Same as above or add a twist and see how many players download and like - modify next version based on results.
Just an idea, but a fun one to think about. Wish I had more time/was a modder :bi_polo:
NukemDed
New member
guys - these are the best 3 or 4 pages i have ever seen on any thread. thoughtful and all positive. well done
i actually read it all. this is so better than i hate this or i love this or i am going to be deliberatley offended by what you said blah blah blah
just spent a wet sunday playing silly video games (7dtd of course)
those wandering hordes come by often enough to keep things interesting but i agree with the sentiment i think i pick up on that they need a bit of spicing up some some how
normally i go to the front of the line and knock em down one by one and then go back and suck up the loot.
if you got the firepower its like a free pizza delivery
if you dont have the fire power you hide
how can they be tweaked to become a proper threat? if they arent a threat they become a nuisance
i like the idea of calling in existing instances of zds in an un expected way. that will make backpedalling and hosing at the mass a bit more risky.
doubling back and drawing them into a safe killing zone, making sure none get away needs addressing as well in this context
running around them in ever decreasing circles maximises loot returns and minimises surprises from lurkers
what if wandering hordes had screamers? would that add enough spice?
imagine a wandering horde of screamers that called in 10% screamers. that would suck your ammo...
i actually read it all. this is so better than i hate this or i love this or i am going to be deliberatley offended by what you said blah blah blah
just spent a wet sunday playing silly video games (7dtd of course)
those wandering hordes come by often enough to keep things interesting but i agree with the sentiment i think i pick up on that they need a bit of spicing up some some how
normally i go to the front of the line and knock em down one by one and then go back and suck up the loot.
if you got the firepower its like a free pizza delivery
if you dont have the fire power you hide
how can they be tweaked to become a proper threat? if they arent a threat they become a nuisance
i like the idea of calling in existing instances of zds in an un expected way. that will make backpedalling and hosing at the mass a bit more risky.
doubling back and drawing them into a safe killing zone, making sure none get away needs addressing as well in this context
running around them in ever decreasing circles maximises loot returns and minimises surprises from lurkers
what if wandering hordes had screamers? would that add enough spice?
imagine a wandering horde of screamers that called in 10% screamers. that would suck your ammo...
NukemDed
New member
and a beam of understanding to crplcritter...i got 4 boys. they (most of them) are now old enough that they are teaching me how to install mods. you get though it and it is better out the other side.
i will still take the high ground and show them how to mod, but how to implement them is their forte. compartmentilisation i suppose.
compartmentilization
compartmentillisation
compartmentillization
i give up - the red underline line wins
i will still take the high ground and show them how to mod, but how to implement them is their forte. compartmentilisation i suppose.
compartmentilization
compartmentillisation
compartmentillization
i give up - the red underline line wins
CplCritter
New member
Hey Nuke, thanks - nice knowing I'm not the only one in the quadruple threat club with kids. My oldest is 9 so you can imagine my situation.
You may have nailed an easier way of getting what I was after. More situations where you have to say, Crap, I'm surrounded... That simplifies my problem... Now I can shoot in any direction and hit the enemy! (paraphrase) - Chesty Puller.
Adding screamers to the horde would simplify what I'm looking for. Yes, you would hear the scream, but it would still give you the "DAMNIT" moment I'm looking for. Even that could be tiered - 10% chance of 1 or more screamers at x level; 20% at x level; etc. I feel like that is already in the game at some level though.
Long story short, I started a new 7DTD game and now on day 24. I have a stockpile of ammo and found a sniper rifle and AK at high levels already... basically endgame at least for the challenging stuff. I saw a massive horde - not sure if Valmod increases horde size or not - and had to chuckle because I knew it was no threat to me. At a certain point, there is very little to no threat in the game. A17 seems to be focused on balancing that, but I think there are other ways it can be done and modding could be the key, but I'm hoping TFP picks up on this a little bit because it would be awesome if the threat scaled better with player advancement and became more dicey as you go along - outside of zombie cops and wite ferrals (spelling?). No disrespect towards TFP... You guys are gaming gods from where I am standing... in Arizona
CplCritter
New member
BTW, I like your strategy talk. Key word, strategy - Not just standing there taking down a line of zds. Having to think about the right strategy, then strike... It is something that should come into play in multiple situations - not just one or two events that repeat themselves in predictable situations. I understand that is a big ask though... Even if there are 5 different horde events that take place; eventually you will have a game plan for each event and you will feel OP in every situation.guys - these are the best 3 or 4 pages i have ever seen on any thread. thoughtful and all positive. well done
just spent a wet sunday playing silly video games (7dtd of course)
those wandering hordes come by often enough to keep things interesting but i agree with the sentiment i think i pick up on that they need a bit of spicing up some some how
normally i go to the front of the line and knock em down one by one and then go back and suck up the loot.
if you got the firepower its like a free pizza delivery
if you dont have the fire power you hide
how can they be tweaked to become a proper threat? if they arent a threat they become a nuisance
i like the idea of calling in existing instances of zds in an un expected way. that will make backpedalling and hosing at the mass a bit more risky.
doubling back and drawing them into a safe killing zone, making sure none get away needs addressing as well in this context
running around them in ever decreasing circles maximises loot returns and minimises surprises from lurkers
what if wandering hordes had screamers? would that add enough spice?
imagine a wandering horde of screamers that called in 10% screamers. that would suck your ammo...
wandering hordes definitely need a buff in variation and excitement and with mods we can get it all, but then it is just me: recently started playing on a modded WOTW server that is at day 100 and has max difficulty level and max zombies alive set to 300! It is insane, everywhere you look are Zs, and in several hours i had to run like hell 3x while i was harvesting during the day - died once because..running lumberjack horde mixed with dogs was a little bit too much for level 5-8 character, but same time i managed to survive white feral runners who also joined hordes in broad daylight - unpredictability and surprises is what makes a game great for me.
would be very nice to have more in game settings or maybe just a setting that adds completely random Zs to wandering hordes instead of templates, and then we could have a chance to see wandering hordes composed not only from regular Zs which i pretty much ignore in vanilla as they are extremely lame, but also screamers/football players/cops/white ferrals etc., but i guess devs will say that it is what mods are for, i can live with that even while i am sure that it is dev job to make us actually die once in a while
would be very nice to have more in game settings or maybe just a setting that adds completely random Zs to wandering hordes instead of templates, and then we could have a chance to see wandering hordes composed not only from regular Zs which i pretty much ignore in vanilla as they are extremely lame, but also screamers/football players/cops/white ferrals etc., but i guess devs will say that it is what mods are for, i can live with that even while i am sure that it is dev job to make us actually die once in a while
CplCritter
New member
Maybe I need to try WOTW mod. I still think TFP is doing it right. I'm sure some players love the game for the killing aspect and others love it for the building. I am a player who appreciates both. I normally just do a basic setup until I feel I am OP and then it turns into a building game for me with little outside threat. This leads me to believe TFP won't introduce any of my ideas and for one main reason... someone can mod it in. I an not mad at this approach though. How does a gaming company accomodate the masses? Let each player decide what kind of game they wan to play.... In almost any case, "there's a mod for that". #loveitwandering hordes definitely need a buff in variation and excitement and with mods we can get it all, but then it is just me: recently started playing on a modded WOTW server that is at day 100 and has max difficulty level and max zombies alive set to 300! It is insane, everywhere you look are Zs, and in several hours i had to run like hell 3x while i was harvesting during the day - died once because..running lumberjack horde mixed with dogs was a little bit too much for level 5-8 character, but same time i managed to survive white feral runners who also joined hordes in broad daylight - unpredictability and surprises is what makes a game great for me.
would be very nice to have more in game settings or maybe just a setting that adds completely random Zs to wandering hordes instead of templates, and then we could have a chance to see wandering hordes composed not only from regular Zs which i pretty much ignore in vanilla as they are extremely lame, but also screamers/football players/cops/white ferrals etc., but i guess devs will say that it is what mods are for, i can live with that even while i am sure that it is dev job to make us actually die once in a while
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