PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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Question for clarification: Does the new pathing system include the proposed "breadcrumbing"? I ask because it seems like distant entrances still would work in A17. Put my base out of range of zombie sensing on the surface, dig horizontally a good ways, then ladder up to the top. It would be much better to be running down that long hallway and see zeds coming at me because they followed my scent to the hatch, came down the ladder, and headed down my tunnel.
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Individual AI/pathing does not have breadcrumbs. There is top level horde/scout/blood moon code, which as of yet, I have not done much looking at, so there might be something in there, but it would only be for making groups go in a general direction.

 
this is crazy, 5 years of development and no swimming and ladders animations (basically the most basic stuff)
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And the game plays perfectly fine without them.

Ladder animations are not simple. You don't just fire off an anim. To do it right requires turning to face ladder, transitioning to attaching hands and feet to rungs. Moving hands and feet between rungs when you move up or opposite when moving down. Pausing anim if stopped. You can turn and look or sidestep while on ladder. When at top, getting on or off needs a different attach/detach anims and in 7dtd you can detach sideways or backwards onto different blocks. That is why many games have very restrictive ladder climbing and it feels like garbage.

 
Everyone has their own list of what should be prioritized and be considered fundamental or critical for the game. I couldn’t care less about those two things until other things I deem more important get fixed. However, only the dev’s list of priorities matters.
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Roland with that POW in your avatar every post seams so aggressiv ;-)

 
And the game plays perfectly fine without them.
Ladder animations are not simple. You don't just fire off an anim. To do it right requires turning to face ladder, transitioning to attaching hands and feet to rungs. Moving hands and feet between rungs when you move up or opposite when moving down. Pausing anim if stopped. You can turn and look or sidestep while on ladder. When at top, getting on or off needs a different attach/detach anims and in 7dtd you can detach sideways or backwards onto different blocks. That is why many games have very restrictive ladder climbing and it feels like garbage.
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I love it when people show up and complain about the lack of something that is by no stretch of the imagination core functionality. Good times.

 
Individual AI/pathing does not have breadcrumbs. There is top level horde/scout/blood moon code, which as of yet, I have not done much looking at, so there might be something in there, but it would only be for making groups go in a general direction.
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Follow up: Is there a plan still to make a breadcrumb feature work in the future? I suppose it could only be so much because a long enough tunnel would put one out of spawn range. Alternatively, is there an element of the new AI which approximates/fulfills the previously mentioned "breadcrumbing" and was favored over it for other reasons?

Roland with that POW in your avatar every post seams so aggressiv ;-)
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Considering the smackdown that faatal just gave, Roland's avatar seems appropriate to have around.

 
I understand that animations are low priority in this game and in some way I agree with it. I also don't care much about graphics myself.

However I know people who don't play this game because "it looks so bad I can't stand it".. How many players has this game lost because of poor graphics? Who knows..

 
That really isn't how anitbiotics/antivirals work. Just because you have a limited immunity to a virus doesn't mean antibiotics would do a thing. Unless your "limited immunity" was that your body completely breaks down the virus and turns the left over stuff into some kind of bacteria I guess. :twitch:
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Its all incredible science that TFP spent billions of dollars conferring with Nobel laureates in their work on Zombie virus/bacterial interactions.

To put in layman terms: I'm the Batman, I'm never wrong. Therefore I'm always right.

I also have a bat shaped boomerang that can poke someones eye out... Be careful your next words.

 
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And the game plays perfectly fine without them.
Ladder animations are not simple. You don't just fire off an anim. To do it right requires turning to face ladder, transitioning to attaching hands and feet to rungs. Moving hands and feet between rungs when you move up or opposite when moving down. Pausing anim if stopped. You can turn and look or sidestep while on ladder. When at top, getting on or off needs a different attach/detach anims and in 7dtd you can detach sideways or backwards onto different blocks. That is why many games have very restrictive ladder climbing and it feels like garbage.
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Do not need animation for the characters on the ladders from the first person, only for the third person and for the zombie.

It is not necessary that the hands and feet hit the crossbar from the third person.

You can make a character or a zombie change the position of the body to the usual when turned away from the ladders.

It is very necessary that there was an opportunity to press a button and hide a weapon or an instrument.

It also requires that the weapon or tool is automatically hidden when the character is on the stairs.

It is also necessary that the character can not use weapons and tools when he is on the stairs.

When a weapon or tool is hidden, the character can run faster.

 
Its all incredible science that TFP spent billions of dollars conferring with Nobel laureates in their work on Zombie virus/bacterial interactions.
To put in layman terms: I'm the Batman, I'm never wrong. Therefore I'm always right.

I also have a bat shaped boomerang that can poke someones eye out... Be careful your next words.
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ah shadup :) you said be careful your next words.... btw we used to play badmitten with bats but they always flew away mad and sore :)

but yep i agree with the lengthy use of anti-biotics to cure the infection and not by a one-shot miracle pill method.

holds up a cross for safety

 
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So a couple of weeks ago I made some snarky remark about the HP bar and Kinyajuu messaged me. He was probably annoyed with me but was nice enough to explain. So here is the deal as of now with the HP bars.
1) It is intended to be used solely for boss battles

2) During development they put it on all entities to help with balancing weapon damage and to help in developing the bar itself.

3) It is a work in progress and they have been adjusting and developing it in anticipation of boss battles.

4) It is most likely not going to be in its finished state in time for A17 and thus will be removed for the release.

So there you have it. As of now the plan is the HP bar will not be in the game for regular zombies, animals, and vehicles. It will be implemented for bosses at some point but probably not in time for A17.

I say "As of now" because they can, of course, always change their minds and do it differently if they want.
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Better than for all zombies but i'd still prefer just not having it at all, even for bosses.

 
Follow up: Is there a plan still to make a breadcrumb feature work in the future? I suppose it could only be so much because a long enough tunnel would put one out of spawn range. Alternatively, is there an element of the new AI which approximates/fulfills the previously mentioned "breadcrumbing" and was favored over it for other reasons?
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It has been mentioned, but I'm on the fence for the usefulness. Breadcrumbs seem too limited to me. Start a game and sit in your base and there are none or climb/jump in some convoluted way and enemies can't follow. I'd rather enemies just figure out how to get somewhere and do it.

 
Faatal,

Thanks for answering my last question...I do have another. With the addition of the M.O.L.E (Multiple Occupant Land Explorer) will we actually be able to have a passenger(s) in A17 or is this still in the works and will be added later?

Regards

Ouch

Coughs * VIDEO * Coughs

 
It has been mentioned, but I'm on the fence for the usefulness. Breadcrumbs seem too limited to me. Start a game and sit in your base and there are none or climb/jump in some convoluted way and enemies can't follow. I'd rather enemies just figure out how to get somewhere and do it.
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Sounds good to me. Thanks for answering!

So, how did faatal end up as the frontman for TFP? Was he nominated? Did he have the best qualifications? Did he just take it upon himself? :playful: (Gazz and kinyajuu pop in plenty, but faatal seems to take part of each day to answer questions. It's awesome.)

 
It has been mentioned, but I'm on the fence for the usefulness. Breadcrumbs seem too limited to me. Start a game and sit in your base and there are none or climb/jump in some convoluted way and enemies can't follow. I'd rather enemies just figure out how to get somewhere and do it.
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Also breadcrumbs would not work if the path goes outside the loaded chunks of terrain.

If you dig a tunnel long enough horizontally and sit at the end of it, the entrance would be outside the loaded map.. so zombies could not enter

 
I have been working on my game for almost 2 years now...and there is NO ladder climbing or swimming animation either!

Its in first person with no option to switch views ;) You just sort of float along and it works for that lol

That is another reason we have so many First Person only games now...it is a HELL of a lot easier to make look good and you don't

have to waste time and resources on player animations...

 
Faatal, Thanks for answering my last question...I do have another. With the addition of the M.O.L.E (Multiple Occupant Land Explorer) will we actually be able to have a passenger(s) in A17 or is this still in the works and will be added later?

Regards

Ouch

Coughs * VIDEO * Coughs
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The MOLE haha I like it.

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Sounds good to me. Thanks for answering!
So, how did faatal end up as the frontman for TFP? Was he nominated? Did he have the best qualifications? Did he just take it upon himself? :playful: (Gazz and kinyajuu pop in plenty, but faatal seems to take part of each day to answer questions. It's awesome.)
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He's just more social since he's the new guy, he's not jaded from dealing with the crazies here yet. =P

 
It has been mentioned, but I'm on the fence for the usefulness. Breadcrumbs seem too limited to me. Start a game and sit in your base and there are none or climb/jump in some convoluted way and enemies can't follow. I'd rather enemies just figure out how to get somewhere and do it.
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Then don't use it? Wasn't it initially intended to help get the zeds to the player because the old system couldn't do the job effectively?

If you are already getting the zeds to the player effectively with the improvements you've already made, then why use it?

Just seems like a wasted endeavor to try and shoehorn it in when/if you have it working effectively without it.

Just my opinion.

 
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