PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[SnowDog1942]

So how do we get the jeep? The motorbike?
Build it from parts, like the minibike? Buy it from a trader? Find it? Craft it ourselves with only forged iron, plastic and wood (like guns)?

Not sure but you will happy to know that the next preview video will showcase......wait for it...........wait for it...... Perishton and new lighting.

 

[A Nice Cup of Tea]

I’ll still play with xp and all that but I am intrigued by Jax’s teaser on his other mod. I guess the main thing is this: How much time do you spend thinking about experience, leveling up, and trying to optimize experience gains?

Rather than optimising experience gain, I actively try to avoid gaining experience. The slower I level up, the more time I have and the more I can get done before the Gamestage rises too far.

I think we agree here. We're probably splitting hairs, but this is like cover versus concealment. The zombies could get to you at all times, but it doesn't matter if, thanks to stealth, they're not aware of you.

My point was more about differentiating between "Blood Moon Hordes can always get to you" and "All random zombies and wandering hordes can always get to you".

One thing that I worry about with the changes to AI is how it will affect the wandering hordes. They're not difficult to deal with (except the occasional Surprise Dogs!) but when they get thrown at your base every single day and night you end up spending all your time repairing the defences they damaged, and that's just tedious.

So I'm currently happy to have a stilt-base or an underground base that the wandering hordes will walk straight past - and then a separate Blood Moon Defense Structure for those nights.

I am concerned that the AI changes might mean that stilt or underground bases will no longer work against wandering hordes - which is why I'm stressing that you should be able to hide from those while not hiding from Blood Moon hordes.

But on the subject of death loops until morning, a more formally recognized & implemented failure state is definitely one option. Most any other game would handle dying on horde night in one of three ways:

1. Respawn adequately equipped to continue fighting (the Team Fortress approach)
   
2. Don't respawn until the 'round' (horde night) is over (the Counterstrike approach)
   
3. Rewind to a state before you died (the Half-Life approach)
   

In multiplayer games you can do #2, although it can get a bit boring waiting for morning before deciding to respawn on or near your bed. Even just being able to do that in single player games would help, but currently single player games pause while waiting for you to decide.

 

[Guppycur]

@gazz

One thing I've noticed watching people play medieval (very loot heavy mod) is people looooove their loot... They collect it like it matters... Already have blues? Take those browns anyway...

...Taking away their loot minigame post horde night is gonna be funny.

 

[TSRViper]

This isn't about taking away all loot.It's just the clickedyclick to get through 400 or whatever corpses and sort everything into boxes.

A handful of zombies can still carry more noticeable amounts of resources.

With dye options we also don't have to drop tons of different clothing items for someone to get a matching set together.

Overall I think it would be an improvement over clicking 1500+ times.

(even though I'm aware that games like Cookie Clicker exist)

I would much rather find a complete AK or sniper rifle than 100 t-shirts / shirts / glass jars etc. Early game you need that stuff but by the time you’re hitting iron tools, most of it just gets stashed in a box somewhere.

Edit: unless the horde had just come from a brass factory. I’d be ok with that :smile-new:

 

[Guppycur]

That's what I'm saying, people love to grab the little things. They love that micromanagement. That's why the bigger backpack mod is most popular ask ever, because people cannot stand the idea of leaving something, even if they don't need it, behind. People are insane about collecting and touching everything. I don't personally get it. But it is what it is.

 

[sillls]

I agree with you about the strength of the game being that people can play in different ways. I personally don’t like the xp aspect of the game so much. It’s better now without the spam crafting but it pushes players to play in certain ways for rewards that are gamey.
I’ll still play with xp and all that but I am intrigued by Jax’s teaser on his other mod. I guess the main thing is this: How much time do you spend thinking about experience, leveling up, and trying to optimize experience gains? I remember a time with fondness when those thoughts never intruded. It was simply going from one objective to the next to survive and not a moment of time spent thinking at the level of earning and spending points to improve things. Maybe my memory is not as rosy as I think but I did breathe a sigh of relief when thoughts of spam crafting no longer existed so I wonder.

I don't worry about leveling up. For me it seems to come, almost naturally.

I start a game and quickly go through the quick tutorial, then gather what I need. I'm pretty much grab anything that isn't nailed down and even then. Well....Lets just say that stone axes and dead shrubs go really well together

I find myself having to clear out a building mainly just to find food. Several sleepers are inside and I kill them. In the current game they sometimes even re-spawn right after I clear a building (with me inside). So I clear them out again. Find a few cans of food and jars of water and run to the next building. Sometimes I just leave a few alone because they are simply too much trouble to clear for so little loot containers, like in the attic.

I find that I level up quickly, not because I stop to kill every zombies out in the open (which I mostly avoid) but clearing out all the sleepers in the buildings.

So on the first night I am in a building, organizing and diving up skill points. That's about he only time I think about xp and not for very long because I am organizing my stuff, cooking food, crafting things like arrows and tools. Even planning on a night raid so I can be more prepared for hoard night.

I respect you, I just don't see your point in this.

 

[The Batman]

I would much rather find a complete AK or sniper rifle than 100 t-shirts / shirts / glass jars etc. Early game you need that stuff but by the time you’re hitting iron tools, most of it just gets stashed in a box somewhere.
Edit: unless the horde had just come from a brass factory. I’d be ok with that :smile-new:

If chickens could lay brass eggs. Yeah that would be nice. Take the chicken coop from the mod and gimme that brass !

 

[TSRViper]

Yeah I could definitely be accused of that. I was the same in FO4, grabbed everything because you never know when you’ll need it. But I think I would happily trade that for less loot, but more valuable. Hard to say without trialling it I guess.

Edit: I haven’t played vanilla in a while so can’t remember if this is stock or modded - when you chop up interior doors, they drop brass door knobs. If it’s not vanilla, it’s worth considering as brass is a real pain once you have turrets.

 

[The Batman]

For endgame purposes brass is still a hassle. As it doesn't really have a sustainable way to get it.

 

[Guppycur]

Agreed. What would be great is if you went back to NOT auto picking up everything on a harvest... Tired of dropping potassium when I'm trying to get stone, and accidentally filling up my bag with garbage I don't want.

I miss e. =)

 

[TSRViper]

You can still shift click Gup. Stay away from that R key

 

[DaVegaNL]

That's what I'm saying, people love to grab the little things. They love that micromanagement. That's why the bigger backpack mod is most popular ask ever, because people cannot stand the idea of leaving something, even if they don't need it, behind. People are insane about collecting and touching everything. I don't personally get it. But it is what it is.

^ This.

The OCD kicks in if that piece of cloth gets left behind, even though I already have half a chest back at my base.

Human nature, I guess.

 

[unholyjoe]

can't deny human nature

like kitchen cabinets or garage space... you beg/wish/want for more and bigger... then when you get it... it's not enough and you want more or bigger. never ends and humans are never satisfied!

 

[beerfly]

This micromanagement for what to leave or get is one of my favourite things in gameplay. I fully understand the reasons why so much people want a big backpack, as DaVegaNL says it is human nature to have it all. It will be mistake if happens, though.

 

[Jedo]

I guess the main thing is this: How much time do you spend thinking about experience, leveling up, and trying to optimize experience gains? I remember a time with fondness when those thoughts never intruded. It was simply going from one objective to the next to survive and not a moment of time spent thinking at the level of earning and spending points to improve things. Maybe my memory is not as rosy as I think but I did breathe a sigh of relief when thoughts of spam crafting no longer existed so I wonder.

I actually have no idea how much xp a given activity gives. I do know that in A16 mining gave way too much xp, and I didn't like it. I'm the one who would collect resources and create vast underground complexes, so I was power-leveling much faster than I liked or expected.

Now, I do want to level because I want to be able to get newer and better stuff, but that doesn't mean that I'm wandering the world trying to get xp. Usually, I'm just trying to find good places to loot. I guess I would be in the minority on your point.

 

[Guppycur]

Yep. One thing I want to do is remove the ability to make drop chests on the fly.

Between that and not allowing frames a very high stickiness and I think the game could be challenging again.

 

[Guest]

That's what I'm saying, people love to grab the little things. They love that micromanagement. That's why the bigger backpack mod is most popular ask ever, because people cannot stand the idea of leaving something, even if they don't need it, behind. People are insane about collecting and touching everything. I don't personally get it. But it is what it is.

I must admit, I would love to see a bigger backpack, but not because I am a hoarder or similar. I just don't get, why you can carry some huge stacks of stone, concrete and/or heavy iron bars, but not 5 different meals, a full set of warmer clothes, and just a handful each of cloth, seeds, ore, etc. with you. Sometimes I decide to leave a full stack of wood behind to be able to carry some much smaller stuff, I might need.

I would opt for a way bigger backpack, but way smaller stack size.

 

[meganoth]

I have to completely agree with Gazz (he in a serious mood, must have fever or something). Players might think they need to loot 50 corpses to be happy after horde night because they are used to it like they were used to spam-crafting. They will adapt (grudingly and with armed revolt on their minds) and after a short while nobody will miss the A16 days. They might not get 20 t-shirts, but the high-quality AK laser-pointer mod and the caliper will be so much better.

After all, they can still scavenge houses to get their fix of loot boxes to open (I'm a scavenger player too, I do that all the time, there is no loot scarcity)

And yes, you wouldn't even need boss-zombies, just make zombies, ANY zombies only have a low change of dropping a loot bag, at any time. Better zombies should have a higher chance for dropping the bag just so that farming of low-level zombies doesn't get fashionable and players feel they get a better chance for sinking more bullets in a Z.

The net result could be that you get as much stuff as in A16, but don't need to loot **every** **single** zombie.

The problem I see is that the game has not enough high-quality rare items, but that is a general problem of the game. Hopefully the A17 mods can change this a bit.

 

[Sinz]

@Faatal

Do vultures have a high priority to agro towards the gyro chopper?

 

[Jedo]

That's what I'm saying, people love to grab the little things. They love that micromanagement. That's why the bigger backpack mod is most popular ask ever, because people cannot stand the idea of leaving something, even if they don't need it, behind. People are insane about collecting and touching everything. I don't personally get it. But it is what it is.

I'm guessing you weren't the guy playing Oblivion and stashing every broom you could find. (Back when it first came out, we rotated playing and watching, and one friend got his playtime revoked because he grabbed everything.)