PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17
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Phoenixshade35
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I like the idea of smarter zombies, like the infected survivor, he could be freshly infected and turned so he might remember how to jump, i like the idea that maybe building in a town you might have zombies dropping down from buildings around you, it would liven it up, too much fun is going to be had i think.
Rusrec00
New member
I don't post often here, but I've been playing for years on both Xbox and PC and even some briefly while I had my PS4. Recently Ive been creeping here reading, almost daily, waiting for A17E. I bought the game three times, and encouraged four of my friends to play. Together we each play the game a little bit differently. I have a friend that just loves to build, he is our group architect. Another friend loves harvesting and his goal is to find all the recipes so he can make anything, and he provides much needed resources for the architect. I and another like to be the guards. We patrol the area and keep the Zs at bay. Although I spoke in favor of killing zombies, I like all the different aspects of the game and the real point of my reply was that the game's true value lies in its ability to appeal to many different playstyles. I played pre kill XP, and I was very excited when it came because I always thought it didn't make sense that all that time, effort, and the resources expended, gave no xp reward. I still liked it, just felt it was odd not to give xp. I don't even like or play FPSs predominantly because I like more RPGs and survival games. I've played most all survival games out there and fell this one is up there right with Ark as the best one out.
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Roland
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I agree with you about the strength of the game being that people can play in different ways. I personally don’t like the xp aspect of the game so much. It’s better now without the spam crafting but it pushes players to play in certain ways for rewards that are gamey.
I’ll still play with xp and all that but I am intrigued by Jax’s teaser on his other mod. I guess the main thing is this: How much time do you spend thinking about experience, leveling up, and trying to optimize experience gains? I remember a time with fondness when those thoughts never intruded. It was simply going from one objective to the next to survive and not a moment of time spent thinking at the level of earning and spending points to improve things. Maybe my memory is not as rosy as I think but I did breathe a sigh of relief when thoughts of spam crafting no longer existed so I wonder.
I’ll still play with xp and all that but I am intrigued by Jax’s teaser on his other mod. I guess the main thing is this: How much time do you spend thinking about experience, leveling up, and trying to optimize experience gains? I remember a time with fondness when those thoughts never intruded. It was simply going from one objective to the next to survive and not a moment of time spent thinking at the level of earning and spending points to improve things. Maybe my memory is not as rosy as I think but I did breathe a sigh of relief when thoughts of spam crafting no longer existed so I wonder.
Aldranon
New member
XP for killing was the replacement of spam crafting.
If you want some type of progression you need to DO something. Unless you just have progression for just staying alive, but guess what people would not be doing. Not anything that was not food or water, so once you get your first potato planted, its GG.
Complete reality is not a good basis for an exciting, challenging and fun game.
But if you want some reality based experience then:
Overcoming fears leads to
greater confidence that leads to
a greater person who tends to be more capable.
So, killing something scary is a blunt way to simulate that in a game.
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Crater Creator
Community Moderator
Two suggestions to add to this idea:For the ladder "exploit" what if they weren't stackable?What if you had to make the ladder in pieces as you do now but you had to combine the amount of pieces to make the length of ladder you wanted and the ladder was a single item that had to start at ground/floor level. If you tried to break the bottom rung you destroyed the whole ladder.
For instance. I have a little horde base I want to use early game. It's 6 blocks high. Instead of being able to make 5 lengths of ladder so it doesn't go all way to ground, I have to make 6 pieces and make them into a 6 block length ladder that I can place on my base. I can't break bottom to keep zombie off base or I break my whole ladder. Now I have to find some way to stop them from climbing on my base. I could box in top of ladder to add a hatch but from what I recall they are going to make zombies able to attack blocks above them. So now I have to actively defend my ladder too.
It would be same for any building. If an apartment building is what I want to climb and it is 40 blocks high I have to make 40 pieces of ladder and find a clear spot on building with no openings or other blocks to stop it to put up my ladder.
This is just something that popped into my head so there may be disadvantages that I haven't thought of but it does seem one way to get around the "exploit" of ladders.
I also have 0 knowledge of how this would be implemented or if it would even be worth the time to do so, so there is also that.
- So you can't break the bottom of the ladder or the whole ladder will break, great. But as described, you could still place the ladder on a pedestal, and then destroy the pedestal once the ladder is in place to leave a gap under it. So the ladder will also need to collapse in that situation. Fortunately, the 'stickiness' property should already handle it.
- It's cumbersome under the current system to have ladder units that can be at arbitrary lengths. You'd need a separate recipe for each height, or else you'd need a new recipe system altogether. Instead, why not make it like a drawbridge: a multi-block shape of a fixed size, which can be chained together to make a longer ladder.
In ComSenMod, for instance, I put ladder blocks in loot. But I realized 1 block isn't useful, so you always find ladders 4 blocks at a time. 4 ladder blocks is a nice number, because it's about as tall as a real life ladder; enough to get up one floor typically. 4 blocks is also too high to jump, so your idea about not breaking a piece without breaking the whole thing would still be in play.
Spider zombie should climb, and then make way for other, that is how it is done. it is like when they reach on top they destory things and then something fall and covering that broken piece making them accessible to zeds below. The AI should make them aggressive to charge and destory block when they cannot find way in normal sense.
On Smart zombie, my vision consist of:
1. Each zombie is assigned different version of AI. So if same zombie arrive you, they probably behave differently, one might be aggessive other might be calculative.
2. Each zombie should have different role, like spider zombie can climb go top destroy door.
3. If ladder direct way is not possible, then they should not jump, but they should be able to climb on top of each other, that make ladder climbable for them.
4. Zombie should fight each other, say 1% chance.
1. Each zombie is assigned different version of AI. So if same zombie arrive you, they probably behave differently, one might be aggessive other might be calculative.
2. Each zombie should have different role, like spider zombie can climb go top destroy door.
3. If ladder direct way is not possible, then they should not jump, but they should be able to climb on top of each other, that make ladder climbable for them.
4. Zombie should fight each other, say 1% chance.
Crater Creator
Community Moderator
Reading your post, I'm going back and forth on how proactive I'd be in taking out zombies in different situations. I feel like I could write a huge post listing examples where it would or wouldn't make sense to kill them for their loot, bringing in comparisons to other games in different genres and other zombie lore, and exploring the justification for experience points as a game mechanic overall.
But I'll spare you, and say that this was just the one example I used for increased effort not leading to increased payoff. I've seen a lot of complaints that what you get in return for killing all the zombies, on horde night in particular, isn't worth the effort it takes. I'm a survival first player myself, but I recognize that for a lot of people, it takes more than "at least you're still alive!" to make it fun.
I think we agree here. We're probably splitting hairs, but this is like cover versus concealment. The zombies could get to you at all times, but it doesn't matter if, thanks to stealth, they're not aware of you.
Ooh... :tsk: We may have to agree to disagree on this not being a FPS among other genres. But on the subject of death loops until morning, a more formally recognized & implemented failure state is definitely one option. Most any other game would handle dying on horde night in one of three ways:
- Respawn adequately equipped to continue fighting (the Team Fortress approach)
- Don't respawn until the 'round' (horde night) is over (the Counterstrike approach)
- Rewind to a state before you died (the Half-Life approach)
I appreciate the parts you agreed with, too, but I'll omit those for brevity.
cnconrad
New member
Well I can assure you that it will be fun. For a few hours...
The problem is without gates the game is just too simplistic to keep up interest. Don't thake that as an attack or anything. The game is fantastic and fun. But once you have the proper irl level of understanding the game the game simply isn't that complex.
Once again not complaining it has over 200 hrs of play between my wife and I.
Crater Creator
Community Moderator
I was under the impression you had all the animations you anticipated needing already motion captured quite some time ago, and the rest just hadn't been cleaned up and hooked up yet. Can someone clarify?
Hello developers, I greet you.
Hello developers, I greet you.
I would also like to thank you for the many hours of fun. Unfortunately I don't speak English, but I hope that my thoughts on the game are understandable.
In my opinion, the game needs new content, in the form of a DLC, and you surely need money for further developments.
Here are my thoughts. Build a new map with different animated enemy villages. In the bandit villages there are people who are being held there and who need to be liberated. People who can then join their own base. These people can be trained as craftsmen, gardeners or defenders. (Yes, similar to Conan-Exiles, although I had the idea earlier. ^^ )
With the liberation, the bandits naturally become aware of the base and additional tension is created. Depending on the number of the liberated and the citizens in the community, really good battles can develop, as the bandit villages also grow with them.
Of course, it's a new game that requires new balances. That's why I got a paid DLC.
Perhaps this suggestion will also give you new ideas.
Many greetings
Dash Ebi
Translated with http://www.DeepL.com/Translator
Hello developers, I greet you.
I would also like to thank you for the many hours of fun. Unfortunately I don't speak English, but I hope that my thoughts on the game are understandable.
In my opinion, the game needs new content, in the form of a DLC, and you surely need money for further developments.
Here are my thoughts. Build a new map with different animated enemy villages. In the bandit villages there are people who are being held there and who need to be liberated. People who can then join their own base. These people can be trained as craftsmen, gardeners or defenders. (Yes, similar to Conan-Exiles, although I had the idea earlier. ^^ )
With the liberation, the bandits naturally become aware of the base and additional tension is created. Depending on the number of the liberated and the citizens in the community, really good battles can develop, as the bandit villages also grow with them.
Of course, it's a new game that requires new balances. That's why I got a paid DLC.
Perhaps this suggestion will also give you new ideas.
Many greetings
Dash Ebi
Translated with http://www.DeepL.com/Translator
Crater Creator
Community Moderator
Why is that stupid, though? We accept the premise that these corpses are reanimated. They have the same bipedal bodies that humans have, and they're capable of locomotion: they can crawl, walk, and run. Most mammals can jump (or leap), so it's not dependent on advanced intelligence. So I ask you, what's so stupid about it?
Zombiepoptard
Active member
Personally I think the xp/upgrade system is a great idea for most survive based games. The hardcore sandbox MMO community has not had much love in a really long time I get my fix off of survive rpg hyberid's for the experence I crave. RPG mechanics can add so much depth and longevity to the game.
Aldranon
New member
So, you have a better solution I gather? Because I haven't heard one from anyone at all.
Edit: You see, all that was done was replace one no-risk exp gain for several no-risk exp gains?
Of course I don't use hay bales in a fall, so there is a risk the way I mine and dig pits to bedrock, but its contrived.
The only credible risk in the game currently, is fighting zombies.
You could make survival a thing worth exp, but you would need to crank up the dial to 11.
Real time crop growing.
You get wet in the snow biome and you will die within 30 minutes unless you can start a fire*.
*Starting fires would be a life and death thing. After about three times failing in using some manual methods you need time to rest before starting again.
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