PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Gobarg]

It's still a hacky approach to require an external / 3rd party program.
The most the player should be expected to do is clicking "I want that" in the Steam Workshop.

They may need to be some way to force a different load order but even that could use an intelligent default when modders get to leave a load order preference in a file somewhere.

I’ve been hoping to see this happen for as long as I’ve played the game.

It wouldn’t just be Modders that benefit from the workshop either.

Prefabbers would also benefit from a working workshop.

A lot of people have built some amazing stuff in this game and it would be great to see their work on the workshop.

I’m hoping that once the final building features list is done that this can happen.

Margoli and others have been doing a great job in trying to save a lot of the work that has been done but I know first hand how much effort has to go into fixing a prefab after a new Alpha release so I can’t see it happening until we see the final or close to final product.

It’s good to hear that the devs want the same things as we do though. As far as the workshop goes at the least.

 

[XCOUNTRY]

*snip* Now they target blocks specifically, always hit it when they try, and in conjunction with pathing, choose weaker blocks. That includes terrain blocks.

Interesting, so if you had a concrete base/wall on ground level with a dirt floor will the zeds just dig under your wall? And with the new pathing are they smart enough to dig a ramp/jump-able ledge to get back up into your base or will they just end up digging a pit to bedrock because they can't get back up?

Either way I'm up for the additional challenge.

 

[Gnomaana]

So any news on performance / frame rate gains or even multi gpu support with the use of Vulkan ?

This game barely stresses my 1060. Not sure multi GPU would really help much.

 

[KingSlayerGM]

Zombies could break blocks before, but it was buggy, so they would often miss or hit a different block. Now they target blocks specifically, always hit it when they try, and in conjunction with pathing, choose weaker blocks. That includes terrain blocks.
What digging means, is they will attempt to damage blocks (of any type) below them. Currently, if you are below them, they have no way to damage in a downward direction, which is what we want to change.

Thanks faatal for the clarification I hope you can add digging zombies then. As long as they don't have a GPS to my location

 

[Gnomaana]

Do you not have sphereii’s mod launcher? As long as you have room on your hard drive for multiple installs of the game you can have multiple mods installed at the same time. It really is amazing.
Hey, I know HUD-less play isn’t for everyone. I just like to share my love for my favorite style.

But seriously for a content publisher the mod launcher would be a must I would think. It has a great tutorial for getting it installed and understanding how it works. It’s stickied in the mod tools forum I believe so it’s easy to find as well.

I think he was talking more along the lines of installing it into one of his current Let's Plays and then remove it from that world. Probably doable but not just using Spherreii's mod launcher alone.

 

[Jedo]

Totally know you are being sarcastic. Which I fully approve, but it made me think.
And the answer would be:

No...it is not July somewhere. The months and how we measure time are purely an earth thing. If other planets (with 'intelligent life') have years and months it is based on how they travel around the sun. And it is doubtful they call any of those months July.

Thank you for the fun thought

That "Somewhere" must be somehow existentially outside the normal spacetime.Since the earth only has a 24h cycle

"Tentatively July" doesn't mention in which year.
Just sayin'.

My hype train just went limp.

 

[The Gronk]

Interesting, so if you had a concrete base/wall on ground level with a dirt floor will the zeds just dig under your wall?

This is a fair point, if the pathing is now 3d the easiest route may not necessarily be the most obvious. Apparently the zombies now have training in combat engineering, structural engineering and mining

 

[Cazmyr]

Interesting, so if you had a concrete base/wall on ground level with a dirt floor will the zeds just dig under your wall? And with the new pathing are they smart enough to dig a ramp/jump-able ledge to get back up into your base or will they just end up digging a pit to bedrock because they can't get back up?
Either way I'm up for the additional challenge.

I am not sure by any means, but I think that they could dig down to get past the concrete. So 3 or 4 blocks and then go horizontally. They are trying to get to you after all. Now if they can't go back up then they may mill about down there and make the area below your base unable to support a toothpick.

Added:

I also love the new changes to make nothing safe. I look forward to the current base designs being scrapped and what new ideas come to be.

 

[Gnomaana]

This is a fair point, if the pathing is now 3d the easiest route may not necessarily be the most obvious. Apparently the zombies now have training in combat engineering, structural engineering and mining

I am not sure by any means, but I think that they could dig down to get past the concrete. So 3 or 4 blocks and then go horizontally. They are trying to get to you after all. Now if they can't go back up then they may mill about down there and make the area below your base unable to support a toothpick.
Added:

I also love the new changes to make nothing safe. I look forward to the current base designs being scrapped and what new ideas come to be.

Fataal specifically said any digging zombies would only break blocks below them if their current target was mostly below them. Read the whole post. There is almost always good information in the last half of the post too.

 

[The Gronk]

I am not sure by any means, but I think that they could dig down to get past the concrete. So 3 or 4 blocks and then go horizontally. They are trying to get to you after all. Now if they can't go back up then they may mill about down there and make the area below your base unable to support a toothpick.
Added:

I also love the new changes to make nothing safe. I look forward to the current base designs being scrapped and what new ideas come to be.

They won't even start digging unless they have a clear route all of the way through due to the way a-star pathfinding works.

So... do the zombies have ground-penetrating radar as well as GPS?

 

[The Gronk]

Fataal specifically said any digging zombies would only break blocks below them if their current target was mostly below them. Read the whole post. There is almost always good information in the last half of the post too.

That's still going to be an issue if your position is low enough to trigger the behavior.

 

[Aldranon]

They won't even start digging unless they have a clear route all of the way through due to the way a-star pathfinding works.
So... do the zombies have ground-penetrating radar as well as GPS?

The law of gaming is play ability beats reality every time.

Even historical strategy games follow the same law.

The law is good, obey the law.

 

[The Gronk]

The law of gaming is play ability beats reality every time.
Even historical strategy games follow the same law.

The law is good, obey the law.

Obeying the law is not always the right way to do things... the holocaust was legally ratified.

 

[Aldranon]

Obeying the law is not always the right way to do things... the holocaust was legally ratified.

and this is why reality loses to play ability. WW2 sucked on all levels, but some WW2 games are fun.

 

[Cazmyr]

and this is why reality loses to play ability. WW2 sucked on all levels, but some WW2 games are fun.

+1

I agree completely. Play ability should always win.

It may take 6 hours in real life to make item X.

A game that makes it take 6 real life hours to make item X is a game I would not play.

 

[beerfly]

+1
I agree completely. Play ability should always win.

It may take 6 hours in real life to make item X.

A game that makes it take 6 real life hours to make item X is a game I would not play.

Progress takes time. Always.

 

[Gnomaana]

That's still going to be an issue if your position is low enough to trigger the behavior.

It's a feature in an unfinished Alpha that the guy actually coding said he wants to work on but hasn't yet and you know the problems it is going to have? You have no idea how he is going to implement it.

I guess with what little detail we have if you have a concrete wall on dirt and then on the inside you dig down 4 or 5 blocks so the inside of your base is lower than the outside and you stand close to the wall they are attacking above then yes it could happen. I wouldn't consider that a bug though. if you designed your base that way, why shouldn't they dig toward you?

 

[Jackelmyer]

@fataal. I was reading through the AI thread (Holy heck Roland, well done putting that together!). One thing I was wondering is in the Zombie targeting logic. Is depth of blocks considered when pathing to a location, in "destroy mode", and choosing a block target? I don't know the names of the modes you have, but I saw you mentioned a wandering mode that block destruction wasn't allowed.

Reason I ask this, is I swear there were some exploit(ish) base build styles that used the Door targeting priority to essentially mess with Zombie AI and Pathing.

I'm guessing no, or at the very best, minimal depth and overall health of depth checking at best could be implemented. Just wondering if we're reintroducing behavior that was "resolved" at one point.

Thanks!

 

[Roland]

That's still going to be an issue if your position is low enough to trigger the behavior.

What issue? The question was if you have a ground level base of concrete on dirt floor would the zombies dig under the concrete instead of going through the concrete. The answer is no.

If you are in a basement under the dirt floor and the zombies detect you then they from what faatal said they still would probably bash through the concrete and then dig down through the floor once they are almost directly above you. Zombies on the other side of your base wouldn't dig diagonally down through the earth to come at you sideways in your basement. They would move sideways above ground and then dig vertically once above you.

 

[The Gronk]

It's a feature in an unfinished Alpha that the guy actually coding said he wants to work on but hasn't yet and you know the problems it is going to have? You have no idea how he is going to implement it.
I guess with what little detail we have if you have a concrete wall on dirt and then on the inside you dig down 4 or 5 blocks so the inside of your base is lower than the outside and you stand close to the wall they are attacking above then yes it could happen. I wouldn't consider that a bug though. if you designed your base that way, why shouldn't they dig toward you?

I've written an a-star algorithm from nothing before, I know thoroughly well the problems he will face. There are always issues and exceptions that occur when implementing such systems that you may not have realized while deep in the code. If my gentle prodding helps him realize these issues earlier then I can't see that being an entirely bad thing.