PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[The Gronk]

I would say that vision is terrible in zombies, unless their brain is working perfectly, which their behavior says otherwise.To see and understand what you are seeing takes many parts of the higher brain regions. So vision is terrible.

Hearing and smell are more localized but would be damaged so sounds and smells might confuse or enrage them.

Lastly, and Faatal is right on with his AI for A17: the Parietal lobe might be damaged in some zombies and they would attack anything to stop the confusing noises or smells, would be heading straight for the offending smells or sounds.

Other zombies with a working Parietal lobe would avoid self harm as much as possible to stop the sounds or smells a player makes!

So would look for an easier way in! (maybe darkness allows them to see better and is why they can move fast)

I'm too happy it can make sense!

Zombies senses and reasoning would likely be affected by how long they've been rotting. A freshly made zombie would/should have senses almost comparable to an uninfected human although you'll have a hard time convincing me that they gain a degree in structural engineering because of the infection, especially if the reasoning part of the brain is the first to go. Sometimes I have difficulty calculating structural integrity of similar blocks... even when I'm not drunk.

The AI must also take into account that it'll be used for uninfected bandits eventually unless you want to do all of the work twice.

In that scenario it makes sense to start with the full range of senses and mental faculties and have a sliding scale which limits these based on how rotten the zombie is.

It also makes sense to use a simple behavior tree for zombie decision making, not only for individuals but also for sub-groups among the horde. The zombies may not make much use of the behavior tree but when you're adding bandits it'll be a lot easier to expand an existing behavior tree system than to try and force a behavior tree into an already existing AI framework. Trying to get a group of bandits working as a coordinated team without a behavior tree will be far more difficult and time consuming than with one. This is why behavior trees have become a standard in FPS games, not because it's flashy and cool but because it saves time and effort in the long run.

 

[lazdeuce]

I re read the game page in steam and it doesn't say anywhere that we are entitled to videos so why are some people demanding them like it's their right? I think the *cough* subtle hints *cough* in a post is fine and can be taken in good humour but the constant nagging posts... in my own house my kids know that if they nag for things they're guaranteed not to get them.

Oh! I'm very excited about the new AI. That's what I originally wanted to say.

 

[stallionsden]

I re read the game page in steam and it doesn't say anywhere that we are entitled to videos so why are some people demanding them like it's their right? I think the *cough* subtle hints *cough* in a post is fine and can be taken in good humour but the constant nagging posts... in my own house my kids know that if they nag for things they're guaranteed not to get them.
Oh! I'm very excited about the new AI. That's what I originally wanted to say.

myself havent posted in a long time..considering we use to get a video a week and atleast a visit by MM a few times a week. not seeing anything for over 4 weeks one can simply ask a question.....

 

[lazdeuce]

myself havent posted in a long time and well i can ask for what ever i want or see or think..considering we use to get a video a week and atleast a visit by MM a few times a week. not seeing anything for over 4 weeks one can simply ask a question..... sorry god for i have sinned.... uuuummmmmmkkkkaaaaayyyyy

I don't believe I mentioned you specifically. I'm sorry you took it personally.

 

[dhlmaster]

myself havent posted in a long time and well i can ask for what ever i want or see or think..considering we use to get a video a week and atleast a visit by MM a few times a week. not seeing anything for over 4 weeks one can simply ask a question..... sorry god for i have sinned.... uuuummmmmmkkkkaaaaayyyyy

I don't think it's any one particular person. I think it's the fact that over the last few days, there seems to be CONSTANT requests for a new video. As in more people coming on here to say that they want a new video or to complain that a17 isn't out yet, than people who want to actually talk about cool new features in a17. This has devolved into more of an a17 whining party than an a17 dev diary. It's just the overall general attitude lately. People can't seem to handle not getting constant updates.

 

[unholyjoe]

I don't think it's any one particular person. I think it's the fact that over the last few days, there seems to be CONSTANT requests for a new video. As in more people coming on here to say that they want a new video or to complain that a17 isn't out yet, than people who want to actually talk about cool new features in a17. This has devolved into more of an a17 whining party than an a17 dev diary. It's just the overall general attitude lately. People can't seem to handle not getting constant updates.

EGGGGZactly and it's happened in every new alpha build.

 

[The Gronk]

I don't think it's any one particular person. I think it's the fact that over the last few days, there seems to be CONSTANT requests for a new video. As in more people coming on here to say that they want a new video or to complain that a17 isn't out yet, than people who want to actually talk about cool new features in a17. This has devolved into more of an a17 whining party than an a17 dev diary. It's just the overall general attitude lately. People can't seem to handle not getting constant updates.

You want to see what happens when a company releasing an early access game fails to properly communicate with their players then head over to the "Space Engineers" forum and look at the bile and vitriol on display there. Giving the players something to talk and complain about is better than leaving them without any news whatsoever. Some on the Keen forums have praised TFP for their ability to interact with their player base.

My god, what fresh hell is this. Just installed the 2018 release of unity and the standard scene background has changed to the same shade of brown as the 1970's... (face + palm) + (head + desk)

Okay, panic over. It changes to something reasonable when you open a scene.

 

[Marinxar]

Yeah, we users are biggest pain in the asses. We will absolutely always complain, regardless. So I get why some devs just choose to stop communicating with us , even though that always end up making us complain even more.

EDIT: Especially for Indie devs, this can become too much. It's a personal dream that is constantly being taken apart and ripped apart by everyone's idea of how they would like things to be.

 

[dhlmaster]

EGGGGZactly and it's happened in every new alpha build.

I didn't start playing until a14.6 and didn't start loyally following the dev diary until a few months before a16 came out. Before that, I just followed the facebook page to get the MM videos. I remember how bad it was at that point, but I wanted the info bad enough that I kept coming back and sifting through the crap to read what the devs had to say.

P.S. If you want to see something truly toxic, go visit the comments on ANY Facebook page for a video game.

 

[meganoth]

... The zombies may not make much use of the behavior tree but when you're adding bandits it'll be a lot easier to expand an existing behavior tree system than to try and force a behavior tree into an already existing AI framework....

Bandit: "Give me all your stuff or I ...BRAINS!... kill you"

 

[The Gronk]

Bandit: "Give me all your stuff or I ...BRAINS!... kill you"

That bug is quite likely to happen during the initial changeover, bandit shoots you and then runs across to bite your face off using the standard animation of a zombie scoring a kill

Fair point though, should a bandit be able to steal your backpack if they kill you?

 

[dhlmaster]

Fair point though, should a bandit be able to steal your backpack if they kill you?

I think they should at least take the most valuable item from what you drop, or maybe all of your money. They wouldn't be very good bandits if they killed you without robbing your corpse!

 

[Bubo]

(forum intermission)

 

[unholyjoe]

(forum intermission)

stomp that damn noisy cricket!

 

[Roland]

That bug is quite likely to happen during the initial changeover, bandit shoots you and then runs across to bite your face off using the standard animation of a zombie scoring a kill
Fair point though, should a bandit be able to steal your backpack if they kill you?

Well if they're called a "bandit" isn't that why they killed you? We usually call people who kill others for no reason other than to kill something else.

 

[Scyris]

From this point of the game onwards , I am really only hoping for a few things to get fixed/added/upgraded and the rest is just gravy...
1. Water...and boats...possibly...fishing!

2. Better zombie AI without being super smart destroyers of the human race , aka zombies from Return of the Living Dead...sounds like we are getting that now from fataal

3. as someone else just mentioned...that annoying seam between dirt and construction...while a minor issue , has always just bothered me!

4. Joshua Trees! yes , I bring it up again and will continue to do so lol!

I am pretty easy...the other new features , vehicles , guns , balancing etc. are all going to be nice , but those three things are what will make it so much better for me...

Your not alone on number 3, that drives me nuts as well, but there is nothing we can do about it right now, so I... try.. poorly... to ignore it.

 

[The Gronk]

Well if they're called a "bandit" isn't that why they killed you? We usually call people who kill others for no reason other than to kill something else.

Balancing then becomes an issue. If players have opted to leave everything in their backpack upon death some are going to be pretty annoyed that this option has been bypassed by the AI. It makes the game harder in a way that players who want an easier game cannot control.

 

[Scyris]

how about vertical/overall sounds?in A16.4 i cannot decide whenever the zombie is on my floor or above by 2

there will be a fix for that?

I'd rather them not make any sounds until they actually see you. Other than maybe the sounds of them punching whatever block they are trying to smash to get a look at what attracted them.

- - - Updated - - -

That, plus after every freaking video of a specific subject, all unrelevant stuff in the vid gets overanalysed and ♥♥♥♥ on. Stating things are in progress or unbalanced gets gracefully ignored by default. If i was staff i wouldnt put a vid out anymore also.
Cheers

Yeaaaah in a way I can't blame them. The one with shooting of zombies was especally bad as no balance was done, and no gun had headshot or the stunned damage bonus working/turned on yet. That reminds me, is blunt force trauma going to actually do anything to zombies in a17? in a16 you hear the sound but it doesn't seem to hurt them at all.

 

[Roland]

Balancing then becomes an issue. If players have opted to leave everything in their backpack upon death some are going to be pretty annoyed that this option has been bypassed by the AI. It makes the game harder in a way that players who want an easier game cannot control.

Its just like now when people select "never run" and that is bypassed by the ferals if your gamestage gets high enough or the football players if you go to that POI. I'm sure eventually there will be more specificity in the options and probably an option to enable or disable bandits for those who want a zombie only experience anyway.

My opinion is that bandits should steal if they kill you-- or even better-- not kill you if you bribe them with your best loot or agree to do a job for them. People who never want to lose anything or suffer any permanent loss from being killed in the game can disable bandits or avoid places that bandits frequent if they are too annoyed by it. That will be their control for an easier game

 

[Scyris]

Its just like now when people select "never run" and that is bypassed by the ferals if your gamestage gets high enough or the football players if you go to that POI. I'm sure eventually there will be more specificity in the options and probably an option to enable or disable bandits for those who want a zombie only experience anyway.
My opinion is that bandits should steal if they kill you-- or even better-- not kill you if you bribe them with your best loot or agree to do a job for them. People who never want to lose anything or suffer any permanent loss from being killed in the game can disable bandits or avoid places that bandits frequent if they are too annoyed by it. That will be their control for an easier game

Not gonna lie I find all zombies being able to run at night very silly, I don't mind ferals as they are bascally mutations you could say, but all of them being able to run is kinda silly. Mind you I won't shut it off because if I do, it'll make night no diffrent than day for me. In the mod I am playing darkness falls, zombie run wouldn't effect much no matter its setting, at night, nothing but ferals spawn.