PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Demonoid74]

Fun game additions for broken legs....like constant pitiful whining and bitching as you walk...upgraded to loud cursing if you actually try to sprint or jump and then get slowed right back down...the addition of alcohol dunk buff or painkillers reduces the chatter , but also increases its vulgarity and originality...so you will hear less complaints , but when you do , oh boy!

 

[Odetta]

Possible? Yes. Likely? No.
That would be an absolute nightmare to set up. You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned hitboxes scaling with the entity. There are also several other issues that would have to be addressed such as attack range and walking speed.

You took my dreams... and crushed them to pieces. Na j/k lol, But what I had in mind (for a mod Idea I'm working on) was to have the entity static, docile, and the size of skyscraper with a poi built around it (but not covering it completely) and be tied to a quest(s) yada yada and so forth. So maybe attack range and walking speed wouldn't be necessary. Still kind of a bummer.

 

[Guppycur]

I don't know why resizing the parent object through code wouldn't work... the colliders would increase as well. Yes, reach would need to be adjusted, but with a17 and animations being tied to actions, movement speed should be fine.

 

[The Gronk]

You could add a custom entity via sdx, shouldn't be too much of an issue if it's just static.

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I don't know why resizing the parent object through code wouldn't work... the colliders would increase as well. Yes, reach would need to be adjusted, but with a17 and animations being tied to actions, movement speed should be fine.

That's one of those things that sounds easy in theory but causes a major headache in practice. With the correct setup in the background code it could be done, depends on what changes are made between now and A17.

 

[GGPL]

lmao cant wait for a17 becouse playing mods with that inventory lag is horrible pain

 

[Roland]

Hey Roland, just wondering if by "there won't be eating to directly gain HP" you mean just that that will not increase max hp or if you also mean that eating will no longer heal you. And I apologize for asking a question in a sensible manner and not just randomly posting some nonsense. I promise to post more nonsense in the future.

Eating restores your current max stamina levels. As you get hungry your current max stamina will drop. I will have to check again and see what effect food has on health in A17.

In A17 there are these values shown in two bars:

Current stamina, current max stamina, total max stamina.

Current health, current max health, total max health.

As you get hungry a black space grows on the far right of your stamina bar reducing your current max stamina. This represents your hunger and you can get your max stamina restored to 100% by eating. Thirst is represented by how quickly your current stamina replenishes up to its current max. If you are well hydrated your stamina will replenish faster than if you are thirsty.

So someone who is hungry but well hydrated and who just sprinted until their stamina zeroed out would replenish stamina back up to their current max of 45% and could sprint again relatively quickly. If that character ate some food their max stamina would increase back up to 100% and they would be able to sprint for longer before their stamina ran out.

The health bar works similarly but I can't recall the specifics on what type of damage reduces your current health and what reduces your current max health and what exactly restores those values. Of course Kinyajuu or Gazz could explain it in detail...

 

[Dagzambie]

@faatal
Is it possible to scale a zombie, npc, or animal to any size? Like with a scale bar that you move from left or right to make a wolf tiny as a rabbit or as big as house? I'm just saying from your end if the user tools are that intuitive and if so, would they ever be available to modders?

Bonus question, would their hitboxes also scale with them?

I'd like to see random sized boars in the game. Our little guy is pretty tough- but some get to over 1,000 lbs. Imagine a boar as tall as you exploding across the plains after you! Especially if it's max hit points are scaled up along with his size! I think I'd almost want to fight a zombie bear over that. And once vanquished, food for days!

(Don't get me started on my desire for a mountain lion in the game)

 

[The Gronk]

Random variance in animal size would be great, scaling hp and damage to match the new size. This would add a lot to immersion for a reasonably small amount of work. Perhaps spawning them in clusters occasionally to simulate family groups.

 

[faatal]

@faatal
Is it possible to scale a zombie, npc, or animal to any size? Like with a scale bar that you move from left or right to make a wolf tiny as a rabbit or as big as house? I'm just saying from your end if the user tools are that intuitive and if so, would they ever be available to modders?

Bonus question, would their hitboxes also scale with them?

Their objects could be scaled, which changes the visible size and collider size, but bad things will start happening as they get too big, like pathing not working, since they don't fit in the path width of 1 meter.

 

[rdunham3]

Eating restores your current max stamina levels. As you get hungry your current max stamina will drop. I will have to check again and see what effect food has on health in A17.
In A17 there are these values shown in two bars:

Current stamina, current max stamina, total max stamina.

Current health, current max health, total max health.

As you get hungry a black space grows on the far right of your stamina bar reducing your current max stamina. This represents your hunger and you can get your max stamina restored to 100% by eating. Thirst is represented by how quickly your current stamina replenishes up to its current max. If you are well hydrated your stamina will replenish faster than if you are thirsty.

So someone who is hungry but well hydrated and who just sprinted until their stamina zeroed out would replenish stamina back up to their current max of 45% and could sprint again relatively quickly. If that character ate some food their max stamina would increase back up to 100% and they would be able to sprint for longer before their stamina ran out.

The health bar works similarly but I can't recall the specifics on what type of damage reduces your current health and what reduces your current max health and what exactly restores those values. Of course Kinyajuu or Gazz could explain it in detail...

That sounds a lot like how Savage Lands' stamina works, and it was one of the things I disliked intensely about that game. (besides the bugs, which I'll mostly give them a pass on as it's early release...) If you're not snacking fairly regularly you can't do more than tiny sprints.

Their cold weather mechanic also meant you were usually either at full health or dead with not much in between unless you set up campfires every few hundred yards. Given 7DtD's much more polished, well-thought-out systems (a16 and earlier) I can't see how this is a good change.

 

[The Gronk]

I'd be very surprised if there isn't some sort of overflow buffer where if you eat a large meal while almost full you remain well fed for some time after although unable to eat more until you're hungry again.

Don't talk to me about software bugs, not today at least. I spent most of the day, and fixed several other bugs, while hunting for a bug that was staring me in the face all the time. Who thought it was a good idea to automatically convert a Vector3 into a Vector2 without throwing a frikkin' error?

 

[Brian9824]

Their objects could be scaled, which changes the visible size and collider size, but bad things will start happening as they get too big, like pathing not working, since they don't fit in the path width of 1 meter.

What we really need is scaling of stats. Stuff like movement speed having a RANGE would be a massive quality of life change. Its really annoying watching 5 nurses heading towards me at the EXACT SAME SPEED. If there speed was say between .75 and 1.25 and more randomized then it would catch you off guard as they might arrive in clumps or surprise you.

 

[naive1000]

I'll see your pill and raise you a reality check.Alpha is about iteration, it means doing things again and again. If you can't handle that then you shouldn't be playing an Early Access game.

Simple as that.

Most people don't understand the programming process and getting an actual application out. You get a lot done at first and then it's all correction, removing bugs, updating functionality, and optimizing to make things run faster, smother, and better without overloading a typical computer. This from someone who spend years fixing other peoples code. The fun.

 

[Brian9824]

Doing things again and again is fine, but when we're waiting this long? If you want to do things time and time again, it should be done through steady updates so you don't have an overfilled plate. I love this game, have bought servers for it multiple times, and had a blast, but waiting this long is a little overdone. I support the devs in their endeavors, but when you put too much on your own plate, it's a little silly.
I'll continue to wait, but that's really all I can do. I mentioned allowing players into the A17 branch with an early access code in the steam property files, etc but... I don't think that'll happen. We could be helping you guys, at least with bugs to save time. But what I feel is going to happen is, we're going to open the game after this update hits, and feel like we're in an entirely reworked and overhauled game. That isn't always a good thing. Too much to catch up on when you've played it hours upon hours the week before.

Except that never works the way you think it does. You end up getting 1000 people reporting on issues they already know about and you spend more time going thru their tickets causing you to lose time. Getting players involved is a waste until they've completed their first pass or two with bug testing.

 

[Crater Creator]

I'm not a fan of grind either and these suggestions actually are pretty cool.The not-being-able-to-jump is pretty bad when you're stuck and need to jump to get out of a spot. Maybe slow down temporarily when you jump with a broken leg.

Building on this, you could simply lose a few HP with every jump: not enough to ruin your day, but enough to make you think twice before nerd poling all over the place.

Simple is good. =)

Saving this quote for future reference.

Wellness was simple but HP gain was also too directly tied to eating. That type of simplicity led to weird gamey behavior to increase wellness (HP). HP will increase as a result of fortitude which will increase as a result of playing the game doing a variety of activities. Wellness as a concept will be an accumulation of buffs and debuffs based on what you eat and drink and whether you have been exposed to illness or poisoning. Still a simple concept but now there won't be eating to directly gain HP.

I think what will be missed in particular is the ability to quantify how well the player character is. I know that rubs you the wrong way and it doesn't need an MMORPG-level UI and yadda yadda, but 'on a scale of 1 to 100' is/was a simple concept.

Fun game additions for broken legs....like constant pitiful whining and bitching as you walk...upgraded to loud cursing if you actually try to sprint or jump and then get slowed right back down...the addition of alcohol dunk buff or painkillers reduces the chatter , but also increases its vulgarity and originality...so you will hear less complaints , but when you do , oh boy!

Ha! And given how much Trader Rekt offends people, I'd say this would be pretty impactful!

Their objects could be scaled, which changes the visible size and collider size, but bad things will start happening as they get too big, like pathing not working, since they don't fit in the path width of 1 meter.

I would loooooove some variation among zombie instances of the same type any way I can get it - most of all among human zombies. I know you're collectively moving away from UMA, but I'm holding out hope for randomly tinted textures (clothes, hair, skin tone), size (within the bounds of, say, the player character creator), and/or movement speed. Random generation enriches this game so well in other areas, I maintain it could do great things to enrich enemies as well.

 

[Wolf959]

That sounds a lot like how Savage Lands' stamina works, and it was one of the things I disliked intensely about that game. (besides the bugs, which I'll mostly give them a pass on as it's early release...) If you're not snacking fairly regularly you can't do more than tiny sprints.
Their cold weather mechanic also meant you were usually either at full health or dead with not much in between unless you set up campfires every few hundred yards. Given 7DtD's much more polished, well-thought-out systems (a16 and earlier) I can't see how this is a good change.

I'm a little worried about this mechanic. I imagine myself carrying stacks and stacks of food and water just to get places. I guess this is balanced by having more vehicles. Anyway, I don't want to sound like i'm complaining, but just in case you didn't consider it (even though you guys probably did cuz your're awesome) maybe make sure you don't end up drinking a lake for a day of travel at a steady -not slow- clip.

 

[sillls]

@faatal Can we have an evil clown zombie please.

Yeah, there were these two zombies that were eating a clown and one of them asked the other. Does this taste funny to you?

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Most people don't understand the programming process and getting an actual application out. You get a lot done at first and then it's all correction, removing bugs, updating functionality, and optimizing to make things run faster, smother, and better without overloading a typical computer. This from someone who spend years fixing other peoples code. The fun.

You seem to know a lot about this. Are you a programmer?

 

[Crater Creator]

Most people don't understand the programming process and getting an actual application out. You get a lot done at first and then it's all correction, removing bugs, updating functionality, and optimizing to make things run faster, smother, and better without overloading a typical computer. This from someone who spend years fixing other peoples code. The fun.

You seem to know a lot about this. Are you a programmer?

Are you kidding? Anyone that "spends years fixing other people's code" is a programmer. naive1000 already answered your question.

 

[Alphado-Jaki]

Monster PC.....

 

[Snowydeath]

On stutteringre A16, stutters were caused by a couple known things and possibly unknowns.

The first known was that the UFPS camera was updating in the wrong order sometimes causing what would look like FPS lag while your FPS would still say 60fps. That one I fixed early on in A17 development so that will no longer be an issue. This would happen when the CPU's physics update would get out of sync with the game update so it was hard to track at first. I tried some random things until I stumbled onto something that kept those calculations in order.

The other known is Garbage Collection. Prior to A17 we made a LOT of garbage and created a lot of new structs and method level vars during run time. We have now internally all started pushing vars to class members instead of making them in the methods. While it adds a tiny bit more to ram when creating the class initially, it doesn't need to destroy it every time the method is ran. The new effect system that runs buffs, progression, items, and events uses this setup so that processing a lot in one frame won't make a crapton of garbage from all those tiny bits adding up.

There are probably more situations and such that have stuttering but those are the main ones I know about and that we've found and started working on reducing.

For anyone curious, below are my system stats and I never have issues with any Unity based games, or any games for that matter.

OS: Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-78LMT-USB3

Processor: AMD FX-6300 Six Core Processor (6 CPU) ~3.5GHz

Memory: 20480MB (yeah, I had an extra 4GB ram stick laying around lol)

Video Card: GeForce GTX 1060 3GB

Hard Drives: 512G SSD (2 of them), 2TB HDD

I have windows installed on one of my SSDs and I keep all my games installed on the other.

Awesome. My 16GB of RAM will love you for this! I love when my ram is used say more than 8GB (for me the game actually uses about 8-9 which is awesome) CANNOT wait for experimental but with FrostPunk releasing sooooon (About 9 hours) I will have something to keep me busy. Great work as always and love the info dump!