PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Guppycur]

Vultures that land, then attack like dogs, would be cool. Nothing short of that will be cool.

 

[Royal Deluxe]

If a Vulture touch the ground it become a Vulthemoth

 

[CplCritter]

I disagree. I might change my mind upon seeing it in game, but I tend to think of zombies being mostly limited in their higher thought processes than their physical abilities. To put it differently, frogs and squirrels and all sorts of animals can jump across gaps despite their small brains and inability to think like us. Sure it takes balance and dexterity and all that, but it’s still in the same class as running, crawling, flying, and other forms of locomotion that zombies can apparently handle.

You make a good point. I'm thinking more along the lines of staying true to a more classical thinking of zombie... Think - Walking Dead, Dawn of the Dead, Night of the Living Dead, etc. We've obviously stretched that imagination for vultures to fly mindlessly which is fine. The game should not mimic real life and be limited on only what is realistically feasible... Again, not against adding jumping. It could add some comedic relief to the game and a bit of a challenge. I think Roland kind of nailed it on the head though. People would just build wider gaps in their trench and carry on as normal. However; you still need to get accross so that would limit you to underground or a draw bridge as access if you didn't want to zombies to follow your ramp/jump technique over a trench. A concern still remains... Would there be a performance loss if you had a 16+ horde on blood moon playing leap frog at the same time over your trench? Making those jumps glitchy would just take all of the fun out of seeing it happen.

 

[CplCritter]

Rather than making zombies jump horizontally I would rather see vultures able to pick them up and carry them across. That would make vultures priority targets, it wouldn't result in a flood of zombies getting past moats, and it wouldn't result in a meta of just digging wider and wider moats. A moat would still protect from being overwhelmed but if vultures were ignored then more and more zombies would be dropped inside.
I would also like to see spiders that can crawl around in all directions on a vertical surface instead of just up and down.

EDIT: I also like the bridging ability Crater mentioned. I loved the idea of gore blocks and was sad that they never quite reached their potential before being axed. So a bridge made of whatever ichor they vomit up that hardens into a resin could be a cool idea similar to gore blocks.

Haha - I love everything mentioned here. Vultures carrying zombies would make me pee a little. Could you imagine horde night? Any structure open to the skies is fair game. The spiders are too easy to render harmless with a little ledge. Making them crawl across overhangs and ceilings would add a crazy creepy vibe.

While zombies spewing a bridge is a bit farfetched, I really like that idea. It could be made of a substance that can only be burned away so a well-placed Molotov is your only hope and could burn the bridge down and catch zombies on fire if timed just right.

 

[CplCritter]

A16 vultures are pre-faatal.
faatal + vulture = death from above....

That plants so many ideas in my mind! Vulture swoops down and picks up a small stone... stealthily flies high above the unsuspecting player who is standing there sorting his backpack and boom!! Death by falling rock! It would make you think twice about standing in an area with open sky... and also adds value to taking out those damn vultures besides the fact they can now carry zombies too.

 

[faatal]

But faatal has got his work cut out for him if he thinks that's going to wreck my base.

But you haven't seen the vulture eye lasers yet. Cuts through blocks like butter.

 

[faatal]

That plants so many ideas in my mind! Vulture swoops down and picks up a small stone... stealthily flies high above the unsuspecting player who is standing there sorting his backpack and boom!! Death by falling rock! It would make you think twice about standing in an area with open sky... and also adds value to taking out those damn vultures besides the fact they can now carry zombies too.

Or death by falling zombie.

 

[Royal Deluxe]

But you haven't seen the vulture eye lasers yet. Cuts through blocks like butter.

Did you drop the Anti matter Bombs ?

 

[sillls]

Or death by falling zombie.

Or death by exploding cop zombie. Drop one of those on a fort and the roof is gone.

 

[ChJees]

Suicide bombing vultures ought to mix it up a bit.

 

[CplCritter]

Or death by falling zombie.

Yes, perfect! Your death scene is you basically giving a zombie a piggyback ride while he is gnawing at your skull!! I would buy the game a second time just to see that happen.

 

[FreeKiLLL]

@fataal

Are you still thinking to add brass cather for turrets?

Just would like to know.

We had many ideas how we can realise that by forum members.

Thanks.

 

[CplCritter]

@fataalAre you still thinking to add brass cather for turrets?

Just would like to know.

We had many ideas how we can realise that by forum members.

Thanks.

I second this, especially on turrets... maybe. Being able to police your own brass is a great, plausible idea... If that isn't possible due to game limitations, brass catchers could help but they shouldn't come without issues (as discussed in past posts). My only issue is making things too easy late game. Not having to go out and find brass to melt down might make lazy 7DTD characters and take a bit of the "need" out of the game. The less things that make you say, "I need to go find x" the less challenging the game becomes IMHO.

 

[sillls]

Suicide bombing vultures ought to mix it up a bit.

Ah. Now that would be nasty. BOOM!

 

[Ghostsniper343]

For getting across a gap, you could have one class of zombie that can make a bridge, perhaps by using its body or expelling a substance that hardens on contact. The other zombies then use that bridge in their pathing. Similarly, a digger class of zombie could allow zombies in general to get underground, without requiring every zombie you want underground to dig for themselves. One zombie enabling the passage of many should make for easier AI calculations, and also make it more important for players to select targets wisely without resorting to weird stuff like regenerating health radiation..

I'm not so sure how I feel about this idea, It seems a little wonky, but perhaps you could make it so when the zombie cop spits his acid or explodes, all that residue gums up any traps/turrets and eventually forms a "goo block" on whatever it contacts? That would quickly deal with spikes if the player leaves them unattended and I think that might work a little better then a bridge building zombie.

Edit: If only there was a huge zombie with incredible strength that could hurl other zombies over gaps and demolish player walls XD

 

[XCOUNTRY]

@fataal

With the new prioritization of zombie AI hitting doors/weak blocks, will this also apply to cop zombie vomit? As it is right now, if the cop sees you he spits at you, which can quickly render a overhanging iron bar ledge useless. A thing I noticed though is the cops never use their vomit to assist in opening doors or attacking blocks if the player is safely inside or moves to a different location. This vomit is extremely effective at destroying higher level blocks. It would be really awesome and challenging if the cops could target specific points such as turrets, spikes, or structural integrity points to allow other zombies easy access to your walls.

Instead of digging zombies could you take the approach that cod zombies takes where they spawn by appearing to crawl out of the ground inside safe zones? Obviously you can't make them all this way or it could potentially be OP. This would definitely increase the pucker factor if one or two burst through the floor of your base and started smacking things. They could be given low health (thinking along the lines of them being nearly decomposed with bones showing and looking emaciated) to balance. They could create just enough of a distraction to allow the outside zombies an opportunity to really do some damage.

 

[CplCritter]

I'm not so sure how I feel about this idea, It seems a little wonky, but perhaps you could make it so when the zombie cop spits his acid or explodes, all that residue gums up any traps/turrets and eventually forms a "goo block" on whatever it contacts? That would quickly deal with spikes if the player leaves them unattended and I think that might work a little better then a bridge building zombie.

Edit: If only there was a huge zombie with incredible strength that could hurl other zombies over gaps and demolish player walls XD

I like the idea of a zombie cop exploding and gunking up the surrounding mechanics - makes sense because that slimy crap has to go somewhere, but I think a zombie with incredible strength and accuracy, able to throw other zombies a bit much. I'm cool with stretching the imagination, but not something that will make it too cartoonish or gimmicky - even more so than a vulture picking up a zombie, picking it up, and dropping it on you. I like your direction of thinking though... What areas of the game do we become too comfortable and how can that be exposed.

 

[Ghostsniper343]

I like the idea of a zombie cop exploding and gunking up the surrounding mechanics - makes sense because that slimy crap has to go somewhere, but I think a zombie with incredible strength and accuracy, able to throw other zombies a bit much. I'm cool with stretching the imagination, but not something that will make it too cartoonish or gimmicky - even more so than a vulture picking up a zombie, picking it up, and dropping it on you. I like your direction of thinking though... What areas of the game do we become too comfortable and how can that be exposed.

I was joking about the throwing part, I was alluding to behemoth

 

[Crater Creator]

A16 vultures are pre-faatal.

Yeesh, haven't we had enough discussion about child zomb-

Oh, pre-faatal. Carry on.

You make a good point. I'm thinking more along the lines of staying true to a more classical thinking of zombie... Think - Walking Dead, Dawn of the Dead, Night of the Living Dead, etc. We've obviously stretched that imagination for vultures to fly mindlessly which is fine. The game should not mimic real life and be limited on only what is realistically feasible...

There's a scene early on in The Walking Dead (I think it was season 1) that I found unintentionally thought-provoking. A character has to rush through the zombie-infested streets of a city before getting up high to safety. At the end of his sprint is a fire escape ladder, which he climbs up as fast as he can. The zombies cluster at the center and kind of paw curiously at the base of the ladder before he pulls it up after him.

For me, the implication was that the zombies found the ladder puzzling, but there was still a real risk that at least one of them would eventually figure out how to get up it in pursuit of the human. And that highlighted that a gray area is more interesting than an absolute. For best results, going up a ladder shouldn't mean "ha ha, I win you stupid zombies!" but the zombies shouldn't all follow you like it's nothing, either. A ladder can be a partial deterrent (and in a way it already is, since if I remember correctly zombie animals won't climb ladders). The same could be said for something like water: it'd be fun if it were a partial solution to the zombie problem.

 

[Crater Creator]

With the new prioritization of zombie AI hitting doors/weak blocks, will this also apply to cop zombie vomit? As it is right now, if the cop sees you he spits at you, which can quickly render a overhanging iron bar ledge useless. A thing I noticed though is the cops never use their vomit to assist in opening doors or attacking blocks if the player is safely inside or moves to a different location. This vomit is extremely effective at destroying higher level blocks. It would be really awesome and challenging if the cops could target specific points such as turrets, spikes, or structural integrity points to allow other zombies easy access to your walls.

I'd just throw in a word of caution that more self-aware, less zombie-like behaviors, like identifying non-human threats (turrets and spikes) and targeting them, are better saved for bandit AI than zombie AI.

Instead of digging zombies could you take the approach that cod zombies takes where they spawn by appearing to crawl out of the ground inside safe zones? Obviously you can't make them all this way or it could potentially be OP. This would definitely increase the pucker factor if one or two burst through the floor of your base and started smacking things. They could be given low health (thinking along the lines of them being nearly decomposed with bones showing and looking emaciated) to balance. They could create just enough of a distraction to allow the outside zombies an opportunity to really do some damage.

And while I like this idea, I would propose that these zombies have to deal with block strength like any other. I.e., if you take the effort to build a base with a strong concrete foundation, it should be more resistant to these zombies than a base with a dirt floor.