PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[sillls]

Link it or it didn't happen? snip...

You said that Madmole posted videos about another game. Were are they?

 

[Roland]

Ooops, late post to a cold discussion.

DaVega is a geologist. Late feedback about cold happenings from the distant past is exactly the type of thing that excites him. He measures discussions in half-life....

Here is what we know for certain:

The third person animations Joel is showing is for player and NPCs (bandits and survivors)

Quests and (by extension) Quest Givers are being worked on

Faatal has been tasked with fixing the current problems with AI and pathing and looking into improvements

Faatal stated he's very confident he can fix the current problems by A17 and hopes to be able to put in some improvements as well.

Based on what we know I'd say it's an even shot for bandits in A17. Madmole's biggest complaint was that they looked stupid and with animations coming along that barrier will be gone. If the current problems get fixed then bandits could conceivable get into A17 as a first iteration rudimentary mob of enemies that could then be improved and fleshed out in A18 or B1-- whichever is going to happen.

So it is just up to you if you want to worry or be hopeful. I'm still hopeful

 

[sillls]

Thanks Roland. The quote wasn't working right.

 

[SnowDog1942]

DaVega is a geologist. Late feedback about cold happenings from the distant past is exactly the type of thing that excites him. He measures discussions in half-life....

Half Life 2 was better.

 

[Laz Man]

DaVega is a geologist. Late feedback about cold happenings from the distant past is exactly the type of thing that excites him. He measures discussions in half-life....
Here is what we know for certain:

The third person animations Joel is showing is for player and NPCs (bandits and survivors)

Quests and (by extension) Quest Givers are being worked on

Faatal has been tasked with fixing the current problems with AI and pathing and looking into improvements

Faatal stated he's very confident he can fix the current problems by A17 and hopes to be able to put in some improvements as well.

Based on what we know I'd say it's an even shot for bandits in A17. Madmole's biggest complaint was that they looked stupid and with animations coming along that barrier will be gone. If the current problems get fixed then bandits could conceivable get into A17 as a first iteration rudimentary mob of enemies that could then be improved and fleshed out in A18 or B1-- whichever is going to happen.

So it is just up to you if you want to worry or be hopeful. I'm still hopeful

Thank you for the summary. So much back and forth its hard to tell whats going on sometimes lol...

 

[Aldranon]

To truly know about bugs in IT/software, need to understand this woman pictured below. She was one of the greats in information technology. The programming languages the Pimps are using such as C, C#, etc and "bugs" were birthed by this amazing woman. The internet probably would not be here without her work.

She helped design the COBOL language. Amazing person. I was at a conference with her and she handed me a piece of wire about a foot long, she said: "Here, have a nano second." (or did she say pico second?). It was an interesting time in my life.

Bjarne Stroustrup is my other mortal hero. C++ is an almost perfect language. He made a mistake with the IO class.

 

[Aurelius]

There is what was intended to be and there is what actually happened. You are stating the intention from that post as the fact to answer a legitimate question by a new guy on the forums when you should have used the actual history as the fact. Doesn’t really matter if the original intent was for weeks of access since the reality was only 3 days. It was also the same experimental build that everyone else got and not some “test build” separate from what was released to everyone else. They also did not test or send in a single bug report to the developers. They shared their feedback and first impression reactions and I believe some of the devs watched the streams and heard that info but so did the thousands of viewers. There were no private messages of testing results from the streamers.
Intention: start streaming 1-2 weeks prior to augment the playthroughs Madmole did for publicity. Streamers were never intended to be testers.

Reality: started streaming 3 days prior same basic build that was released as experimental for publicity. Streamers were not testers.

To answer the new guy’s question there will be a test build released about a month before it goes live on Steam and automatically updates everyone. You don’t have to be a streamer to opt in to the test build. Anyone who wishes may do so and share their feedback and bug reports here in the forums. Currently, the latest_experimental beta is empty but it will be used again for A17 once the time is right.

PS: I’m all for people poking fun at the whole Stream Team and waxing snarky about how it all went down but if someone is asking a legit question it’s not fair to confuse them with acerbic comments about the past...

Huh?

lordcrowler suggested TFP have a test server where people can try the latest test build.

I responded truthfully to him - and yes, I was poking a bit of fun at the whole shenanagins that went down - but I didn't mislead him. Notice, I was even helpful about selecting the latest_experimental, which would be the closest option he'd have to doing what he was suggesting.

If you saw my response as an "acerbic comment" to a legit question, then I don't know what to say. I didn't see a question posed by lordcrowler, and I didn't say anything about time.

I did ask you about lead time though, because of the difference with what was said then compared to now (and I don't remember how long the streamers had it before us, so I'll trust that it was 3 days.)

Do you need a hug? I sure need a hug. We fight too much Roland...

-A

 

[chaosterone]

I think the best solution is eat snickers bar, and start a new game where you can only use a club to take out your aggressions. Then come back in a few hours and have more fun.

 

[Karma]

View attachment 24018If they get blimps...i want one of those fan people that wiggle all over the place for the front of my base.

LOL...they should be available at the Traders.

I'll take a half dozen.

 

[Roland]

I’ll take a hug if you’re offering one. I’ll even buy you dinner first.

I just didn’t want the guy to get the impression that only streamers can opt in to the “test build” (AKA experimental branch) and it sounded like that was what you were saying. I knew it was a joke but I doubt he did.

You’re still my fave user that begins with A. (Don’t tell Aldranon)

 

[DaVegaNL]

In short, most of your assumptions are highly probable. I'm just not happy with using a word like "deduction" where unstated assumptions were used, some of them even unlikely or at least unfounded. As was the case with the post I was answering to.
Your "extended reasoning" I'm not so sure about. Not to say that being sceptical isn't without reason. But there are only a few really obvious bugs with zombie pathing, foremost the running around in circles.

But bandits don't need to make a beeline for the player, bandits have guns. Look at the zombie cop, ever see him run around in circles? Bandits need other stuff and we don't know how much of that is planned. For example:

*) They might need a faction sense so that they only attack you when you are in a different faction.

*) They might need macro-behaviour that makes them do sensible stuff in a camp.

*) They might need routines for using cover when attacked

*) They might need routines for retreating if near death.

I don't know how much "intelligence" is planned for the bandits. But I don't think the problem of bandit AI is the pathing. Other problems like smell not working could very well be a problem of some other subsystem instead of AI.

Ooops, late post to a cold discussion.

Yeah, I fully agree to this mate.

- - - Updated - - -

DaVega is a geologist. Late feedback about cold happenings from the distant past is exactly the type of thing that excites him. He measures discussions in half-life....

Hehe yep! If the timeframe of an event does not include the words 'millions of years', I'm not interested

 

[Aldranon]

I’ll take a hug if you’re offering one. I’ll even buy you dinner first.
I just didn’t want the guy to get the impression that only streamers can opt in to the “test build” (AKA experimental branch) and it sounded like that was what you were saying. I knew it was a joke but I doubt he did.

You’re still my fave user that begins with A. (Don’t tell Aldranon)

OMG OMG OMG! So I'm the second best in the world???

... What I meant to say was: How thoughtful of you. You are kind and, obviously, very perceptive.

 

[Roland]

OMG OMG OMG! So I'm the second best in the world???
... What I meant to say was: How thoughtful of you. You are kind and, obviously, very perceptive.

I've always kinda stuck you between Jesus and Moses in my mind. So do something. Touch your computer screen and turn all the small stones into bandits.... or children of Abraham.... or something.

 

[Gazz]

Part the forum? =P

 

[Aldranon]

I do have some Moses envy, but he did have a cool stick that he would do cool stuff with and had the first God Mode, props to him.

I did try turning my mouse into a snake by casting to the ground (hence my new mouse) and I did part my head phones in two (hence my new head phones)

So I'm close, really close. Maybe Bill Murry has me beat in "Groundhog Day" too. I haven't lived 1000 years in one day... But I was close standing in line at the DMV.

So Third... A solid third or forth. My wife is up there too so I bet I'm in the top ten... for sure...

 

[Crater Creator]

I was expecting this reply and had the following reply stored in a fridge for immediate application:Unholy Joe said "there is no game that is tailor made for every action". I don't call the game tailor made for the action if a random dynamic element like the DM is included as a catchall. I don't call this tailor-made. The DM could, if he had a bad day just say "You can't do that". That is not what I would call "tailor made".

Now its your turn again in the out-nitpicking-contest :rapture:

Perhaps I shouldn't, but then again this is the nitpicking thread...

With a dungeon master, you have an actual person guiding you through the game, customizing the experience based on your input. Yes it's a random, dynamic catchall element, but so what? I would call this the definition of tailor-made. It's the perfect analogy for what a DM does. The DM is tailoring the game. You know, like an actual tailor tailors your clothes, accounting for whatever weirdness your body shape throws at him/her. This contrasts with off the rack, where someone has made their best guesses on what will accommodate you ahead of time, and used a machine to produce a set of pre-determined options from which you can choose. The latter is a great analogy for this and other computer games.

Yes, because I thought MM or someone else said something about checking the cupboards and creating them opened if they are empty. I could remember wrong or misunderstanding the algorithm or it was miscommunicated somewhere. And there is always the possibility that the algorithm even if correct at that time was changed in the mean time.

Ah, I see. I'm seeing it differently. Right now, there's a system that replaces e.g. a generic loot helper object with one of several 'pile of trash' models, occasionally a backpack or purse, etc. I would expect empty cabinets would use that system, so that when the chunk is generated a certain percentage of those blocks spawn as closed cabinets and the rest spawn as open cabinets, with the corresponding properties of each block. In other words, this would be using a separate system on top of the existing loot system, which already puts loot in some containers when you search them and nothing in others.

I'm just speculating though, based on what I understand to be an easy way to do it. It also makes sense to me, intuitively: even if you were to loot somebody's house now, before the apocalypse, not every cabinet will be used. Some will be empty, including ones that are closed.

 

[Roland]

It also makes sense to me, intuitively: even if you were to loot somebody's house now, before the apocalypse, not every cabinet will be used. Some will be empty, including ones that are closed.

Who are these people and why have they not used up all available storage space in their home? Are they even human? Next you'll say that someone somewhere has no clutter on their kitchen counter top and that their kitchen junk drawer opens and closes easily without the scissors or the stapler getting in the way and jamming it up. Preposterous!!!

 

[StompyNZ]

I'm just speculating though, based on what I understand to be an easy way to do it. It also makes sense to me, intuitively: even if you were to loot somebody's house now, before the apocalypse, not every cabinet will be used. Some will be empty, including ones that are closed.

I havent read any of the previous posts, cos I kinda never visit here but was bored

Anyway, you could easily roll all the loot when the chunk loads, and then set a different mesh on the block based on if it had loot or not

Mort wrote some code that lets a single block load a random number of shards for a crystal block we are using It's pretty cool

 

[Roland]

I havent read any of the previous posts, cos I kinda never visit here but was bored
Anyway, you could easily roll all the loot when the chunk loads, and then set a different mesh on the block based on if it had loot or not

Mort wrote some code that lets a single block load a random number of shards for a crystal block we are using It's pretty cool

The Dark Crystal mod overhaul confirmed! Can't wait to be a Gelfling!!!

 

[Gazz]

What they are talking about is the old lootplaceholders system in loot.xml that triggers when a prefab is spawned.

The only technical A17 change is that you can now spawn an air block and be more flexible about decorating prefabs.

Closed containers will likely always have loot and the (obvious) empties are fillers/decoration.

The loot density is then controlled with a simple % value on the lootplaceholder instead of dealing with the whacky-ish 0-2 count method with extra padding from a junk group.

It's simply far easier to balance without jumping through hoops.

May have to add an "upgrade" property to the empties so people can "fix up the place" if they set their mind to it but that's a rather minor detail and way down the list.