PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Maharin]

still waiting to see some skin...

I missed this post earlier... so here's a naked guppy:

 

[Flat0ut]

Checkout the videos in the first post...
Edit:

Should you be lazy:

I know its redone, but still i would like to see some crashes, like its get flipped on roof. I mean that minibike was rotating by angle of terrain. But this system is getting more dynamic. Im just interested if crash resulting in mid-air rotation works and if there is way to do more crazy stuff with vehicles.

 

[Menace312]

T-h-r-e-a-t = Something that intends to cause harm and diminish your safety.
T-h-r-e-a-d = Something you use with a needle to sew.

Not mocking but just wanted to be sure you knew the correct word for future conversation.

I never mentioned digging. I only mentioned an attitude from some that desire complete safety and separation from zombies in a zombie survival game. I don't care how others play the game. But there is a setting for non-interaction with zombies in the options. My vote is for people to use that instead of wishing for dumb spinning zombies or zones of 100% safety in the world. And I'm not worried in the least what other people do. I am only interested in a better game for how I and I alone wish to play. Making sure that all areas of the world have some challenge so that no matter where I and I alone wish to explore will be interesting and fun for me is my only concern.

So when I have advocated for digging zombies and other threats in the underworld, make no mistake, that it is simply because I personally think it will make for a better game and I have spent zero time worrying about how anyone else likes to play the game.

If I cared how others play I'd start complaining about leveled loot for Guppy's sake and food and water bars on the main screen for the rest of y'all. But I don't give a damn

Yes yes my mistake... I'm not native in English, so I rely to much on spell checking...

I fixed my post

I very much enjoy building, and there can be times where i curse the random horde if its inconvenient...

But that's the game!

It wouldn't be fun if it was always convenient...

So I totally agree with you, that if you don't like the zombies you kinda bought the wrong game. Or, you have the option the turn zombies off for good or temperarely.

So no real issue...

Well yes... I know... That's why I complained/intelligently interjected (depending on your views).

I have to speak out against the diggers... I don't see a good way to implement them.

Good thing these "issues" can be modded then... They really think of everything don't they?

 

[Guppycur]

I missed this post earlier... so here's a naked guppy:

I was in the shower! How rude!

 

[wordwaster]

How very generalizing of you Roland...
I'd very much like the zombies to have better AI... They are simply no threat as it stands. It's better now in A16.4 than in the previous A16 versions, but still nowhere near on par with A15 and past...

My quarrel with underground threats, are the uninspired suggestions to "fix" it here on the forum...

Most suggestions involve digging, of some kind, to force players to the surface... This is a REALLY bad idea, since this will litter the landscape with holes... Also, digging down to find a massive hole and fall to you death is also not fun.

I don't mind having threats underground... It may even enhance the game further!

I just don't want it at any cost...

And really, it's fine the way it is now... Who wants to stay underground anyway?

And if you do, so what???

It's just a really strange thing to worry about...

Edit:

FYI for the evil minded among you. People in underground bases, are some of the easiest to troll... Just saying

it's really NOT fine the way it is now. mining is BORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRING. i'll repeat my suggestion of zombies digging out from the ground. little digging animation + little crawling out of the ground animation = a little spice during a part of the game that is so uneventful and mindless that i started just giving myself stacks of iron from the cheat menu to avoid the ennui.

*note for the "quit trying to ruin the game for me! i like having a 100% safe underground base...for some reason" folks: i would only hope to see zombies dig out from natural blocks, not player made ones. so you can still have your cozy little home under the sea of zombies.

I missed this post earlier... so here's a naked guppy:

finally. someone gives me what i want. about time.

 

[Tin]

T-h-r-e-a-t = Something that intends to cause harm and diminish your safety.
T-h-r-e-a-d = Something you use with a needle to sew.

Not mocking but just wanted to be sure you knew the correct word for future conversation.

I never mentioned digging. I only mentioned an attitude from some that desire complete safety and separation from zombies in a zombie survival game. I don't care how others play the game. But there is a setting for non-interaction with zombies in the options. My vote is for people to use that instead of wishing for dumb spinning zombies or zones of 100% safety in the world. And I'm not worried in the least what other people do. I am only interested in a better game for how I and I alone wish to play. Making sure that all areas of the world have some challenge so that no matter where I and I alone wish to explore will be interesting and fun for me is my only concern.

So when I have advocated for digging zombies and other threats in the underworld, make no mistake, that it is simply because I personally think it will make for a better game and I have spent zero time worrying about how anyone else likes to play the game.

If I cared how others play I'd start complaining about leveled loot for Guppy's sake and food and water bars on the main screen for the rest of y'all. But I don't give a damn.

+1

It's always funny how we and others that are similar in thinking, need to always stress on how "I/We" would like threats in all aspects of the game in some form. <- key words "Some Form", digging zeds only being 'One' aspect in a "Multitude Of" that threat 'may' be.

One aspect 'currently' lacking in the game is any 'real' need or encouragement to travel. Once you set up shop and find that big city loaded with everything you need that's it or start RP'ing for a reason. It doesn't need to be a "Non choice" deal either, just something to encourage it. Quest line? Environmental?.. something to get the player to 'choose' to explore the map more. Gold/Diamond Mines in the wasteland? Secret stockpile of items/gear in a specific spot in the burnt forest too good to resist? Dungeon poi's with the best stuff dotted throughout the map? IDK something.

Shameless plug: Ohh! as for the spinner zeds! Check out my mod in the modding section "The Dying Lands". Drastically reduced that from happening..

 

[Maharin]

Zombies aren't supposed to be smart.

This will probably fall on deaf ears but... zombies aren't real. And because they are not real one version of zombies may not be like another version of zombies. As such there is no such thing as an objective view of zombies. It's all subjective and all at the whim of the creator.

People are sometimes intelligent (granted, rarely with any real consistency, but still) so why can't zombies also at least sometimes be intelligent? Why can't they retain a hint of their humanity? Why can't they realize they have working arms, legs, joints, etc. and use them a little more effectively? (EDIT: Sorry, this should be efficacy)

And the best question of all? Why NOT? If the zombies in 7DTD were more like the ones in 28 Days I, for one, would be happy. Slow, stupid zombies are only a threat if you're also stupid and caught by surprise.

 

[Maharin]

finally. someone gives me what i want. about time.

I have more of him on the toilet if you want?

EDIT: Guppy's home office:

 

[rdunham3]

+1
I suspect it’s the same crowd that want no underground threats that also are happy with super dumb zeds to reduce their threat above ground as well. It always makes me smirk when people who knowingly purchased a zombie survival game complain about being interrupted by zombies spawning and harassing them all the time. They’re probably in heaven when the zeds start running in circles and they can just build in peace...

Speaking only for myself, the only things that annoy me are the absolute GPS-accurate "wandering" of hordes straight at the player, and game stages being so very stratified at the moment. I've seen "army night" (with hazmat and nurses, I suppose as former base support staff...?) and "sports night" (cheerleaders and football zeds, mostly, with some spectators) and a few other slightly harder to categorize but oh-so-obvious tiers. Later on, I am to understand, we have the all radiated spitter squad tier. (haven't played a single world that long, myself, and happy if I never see that - thanks!)

I would like to see the occasional down-angled digging, perhaps just by crawlers? Smaller but more frequent daytime hordes that sometimes miss the player by 20-50 blocks, so you get the feeling they're everywhere but don't necessarily have to engage/avoid if you're not doing anything particularly noisy right when they pass. Two zeds who have heard each other and are each bashing in their side of the building to get to the noise caused by the other zed's bashing...regardless of where the sneaking player has snuck off to... (this would require a zed being able to target the noise source's coordinates, not just the current coordinates of the player who originally made a noise...as it stands, they appear to target the player not the noise)

 

[KavasMasta]

Why not just replace the heathbar with a rectangular flesh sample that becomes more and more bloody/cut up/burned the more you hit it and glows if the enemy is irradiated.

it would be like observation of the enemy and would be unique and could be upgraded with the intelligence/perception stat.

 

[Demonoid74]

Just as long as they don't make the zombies like the completely OP ones from Return of the Living Dead!

Zombies using radios "Send more coppers...." , Zombies driving cars poorly...opening doors with tools etc...

Sure zombies are not smart in 90% of zombie movies since Romero invented the genre...but that doesn't mean they shouldn't occasionally show

some spark of rudimentary intelligence every once in awhile...hell even the very first zombie we ever saw in Night of the Living Dead...uses a rock to try and smash its way into the car she is in...

While yeah , they should not ever be "smart" , they also should not just spin forever without making any effort to get to that tasty person they see and just want to eat! See you on a little platform above them , maybe wander/spin/mill about aimlessly looking at their intended dinner...but after a bit , realize they can break that tiny support holding that platform up...

As far as underground threats...well we have radiation...we need C.H.U.D.!

 

[meganoth]

As such there is no such thing as an objective view of zombies. It's all subjective and all at the whim of the creator.

Lets make them a family of heroic young zombies, one of which falls in love with a human girl played by Kristen Stewart who is the daughter of the Duke. And another family of zombies that want to kill her (excellent, the last part is already implemented). There are also Werezombies, they are running around on all fours (implemented as well! Strange! it seems this was planned by TFP all along).

 

[Roland]

Why not just replace the heathbar with a rectangular flesh sample that becomes more and more bloody/cut up/burned the more you hit it and glows if the enemy is irradiated.
it would be like observation of the enemy and would be unique and could be upgraded with the intelligence/perception stat.

Lol...if we have to have an onscreen indicator then I agree with this. Awesome idea as far as onscreen hp bar ideas go.

 

[Roland]

Lets make them a family of heroic young zombies, one of which falls in love with a human girl played by Kristen Stewart who is the daughter of the Duke. And another family of zombies that want to kill her (excellent, the last part is already implemented). There are also Werezombies, they are running around on all fours (implemented as well! Strange! it seems this was planned by TFP all along).

I’ve been wondering why none of them sparkle in the sunlight....

 

[Survager]

[*]Weapon Overhaul

+Removing a mod has a chance of damaging/ destroying the weapon

What are modifications and why can they break or destroy weapons when they are removed? With what can you compare the modifications in real life?

If I install an optical sight, I can easily remove it and the weapon does not break. This is not a modification, it's an upgrade.

If I install a large store, I can also remove it and replace it with a regular one, and the weapon does not break. This is not a modification, it's an upgrade as well.

What is this the modifications, and why will they have such difficulties?

 

[Gazz]

The modifications will be whatever they have to and realism can go cry in a corner.

Without any sink you'll just be hoarding chests full of item mods that never get used.

 

[Roland]

There are two flavors of mods, attachments and plain old mods. A mod is like boring a hole in the barrel where scopes are attachments and can be swapped in and out at will with no problems. Trying to remove that barrel to put that "mod" on another gun would break the gun. Removing a laser sight or other normal attachments for guns will not break the weapon.

The modifications will be whatever they have to and realism can go cry in a corner.
Without any sink you'll just be hoarding chests full of item mods that never get used.

Aaaaaah the old Good Cop Bad Cop Developer Routine. Love it!!!

 

[ParaSyt]

There are two flavors of mods, attachments and plain old mods. A mod is like boring a hole in the barrel where scopes are attachments and can be swapped in and out at will with no problems. Trying to remove that barrel to put that "mod" on another gun would break the gun. Removing a laser sight or other normal attachments for guns will not break the weapon.

The modifications will be whatever they have to and realism can go cry in a corner.
Without any sink you'll just be hoarding chests full of item mods that never get used.

With what ever happens I like the idea of the guns breaking. When trying to remove it will that remove the gun+mod from inventory or will you get scrap, or a broken gun+mod with no health that can be scrapped?

I think the gun breaking is realistic, at least for me. I can't even count how many times I have broke my PC trying to make it better. I actually broke one of my handguns (IRL) by cleaning it and adding new springs. Now it's a paper weight.

 

[Maharin]

Aaaaaah the old Good Cop Bad Cop Developer Routine. Love it!!!

Are there any truly good cops in the oppressive regime of Navezgane?

EDIT: Or are we talking about some other fictional place like this "real life" I've heard tell of?

 

[Crater Creator]

Any changes that will let us make it harder / blood moons last longer, I've increased the maxspawn in xml on the blood moon to 20,000 but it seems to have an upper limit around a thousand or so, which by day 21 we can kill within an hour or two of game time (playing on hardest setting with always run on and base stage level +4). Or does anyone have any additional tips for increasing difficulty beyond arbitrary restrictions on game play ( we already only allow ourselves to take over existing structures, above ground all the time)

I would look at the trickle of zombies that keep coming after the main horde until morning. I can’t remember what they’re called in xml, but currently they only come one or two at a time. You could crank that up to insure lots of zombies right up until morning.

I had to smile at this, you thought it was trivial but M.I.T. finally did this with their open-source AI project. Its about as smart as a cat and dog. Cats are smarter but dogs socialize better, so you want both for a good AI. Which is what they are working on.

In addition to all the cat & dog things zombies don’t have to do, I would think being able to navigate the world in standardized one meter increments simplifies things tremendously. It seems like 90% of that elusive ‘good AI’ comes down to navigating in space (and, where applicable, not sounding stupid with voice lines).

I have to speak out against the diggers... I don't see a good way to implement them.

The key to avoiding Swiss cheese, to my mind, is to implement it as one specialist that can dig, like spiders are one specialist that can climb. This specialist tries to dig one hole to blaze the trail for other zombies that don’t dig themselves. This would also be a good approach for other trail blazing types, e.g. bridge builders.

One aspect 'currently' lacking in the game is any 'real' need or encouragement to travel. Once you set up shop and find that big city loaded with everything you need that's it or start RP'ing for a reason. It doesn't need to be a "Non choice" deal either, just something to encourage it. Quest line? Environmental?.. something to get the player to 'choose' to explore the map more. Gold/Diamond Mines in the wasteland? Secret stockpile of items/gear in a specific spot in the burnt forest too good to resist? Dungeon poi's with the best stuff dotted throughout the map? IDK something.

Agreed. It’s early days but I’m experimenting with some ideas on this subject. They’re more sticks than carrots so far, but stay tuned.

Why not just replace the heathbar with a rectangular flesh sample that becomes more and more bloody/cut up/burned the more you hit it and glows if the enemy is irradiated.
it would be like observation of the enemy and would be unique and could be upgraded with the intelligence/perception stat.

I’m not sure what you’re trying to address with this suggestion. A floating rectangle is going to feel artificial no matter how you dress it up.