PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Jedo]

While I'm here, Gronk=he? I just assume this is the real Rob Gronkowski who loves playing 7dtd and writing code. It's just a shame that Gronk plays for the wrong team.

 

[Gnomaana]

A17 Feature List: Updated as Developers reveal them!

• Every biome remastered for Unity 2018 5/30/18
  
• Game Engine update to Unity 2018 5/30/18
  

With the new c# job scheduler in Unity 2018 this is one of the best news items for A17. Glad the 2018 switch seems to have worked out well enough they decided to stay with it.

 

[Roland]

wondering what happened to the plans for blueprints shown a while ago in an idea MM had and showed in one of his videos.
were they shelved

were they forgotten

are they still coming

Back Burner.

Still planned as far as I know but probably will come around same time as settlements and/or steam workshop support. The idea was that it would more easily make prefabs shareable (which would be best served by workshop support) and also enable NPC's to assist in building once settlements are implemented.

Of course, Blueprints are not mentioned in the original kickstarter goals so they very well could go the way of other features that were thought up later but then deemed "beyond the scope". But, Madmole has seemed pretty excited about the possibilities of blueprints so....fingers crossed!

 

[Swiftpaw]

So the Unity 2018 upgrade happened after the Memorial Day video, which means we still don't have any game footage in the new version of Unity?

MUCH WANT

Can't wait to see what performance changes and other smaller changes or features that this new engine has helped them add! Better vehicle physics, for example? Can't wait to see the Vulkan renderer performance!

 

[Guppycur]

Back Burner.
Still planned as far as I know but probably will come around same time as settlements and/or steam workshop support. The idea was that it would more easily make prefabs shareable (which would be best served by workshop support) and also enable NPC's to assist in building once settlements are implemented.

Of course, Blueprints are not mentioned in the original kickstarter goals so they very well could go the way of other features that were thought up later but then deemed "beyond the scope". But, Madmole has seemed pretty excited about the possibilities of blueprints so....fingers crossed!

StompyNZ has it in a mod and I gotta say, it's pretty ■■■■ cool to use... I was skeptical about the idea when first pitched, but then I started imagining uses for it... especially now that we're definitely getting a conversation tree and a more robust quest package.

 

[jorbascrumps]

StompyNZ has it in a mod and I gotta say, it's pretty ■■■■ cool to use... I was skeptical about the idea when first pitched, but then I started imagining uses for it... especially now that we're definitely getting a conversation tree and a more robust quest package.

I don't suppose this mod is available publicly.. ? :smile-new:

 

[Jackelmyer]

faatal said that the block breaking targets are the three blocks stacked in front of them. Normal priority is 2nd block (at their torso level), 1st block (at their leg level), and then 3rd block (at their head level) and this is modified by weakness of the block. So if you have concrete on the ground wood on top of that and a window on top of that they would break the window and then the wood block and then jump up to walk through that 2-block opening. But if you had wood on the bottom, then window, then concrete they would break the two bottom ones and walk through.
It seems to me that the new pathing AI will negate the "Door honey-pot" strategy because zombies won't just go for doors for the sake of going for doors. They will go for the player through the weakest obstruction in their sight range. So they will still choose doors over walls but sticking a door and a gas barrel in a field six meters out from your base isn't going to attract them anymore as those doors are not between them and your brains.

Was a door and a gas barrel really the only problem? I thought there was more to it than that. hmm.

 

[Guppycur]

Just doors. Barrels were for a heatsource to attract screamers. Doors are the only block specifically targeted by <=a16 ai-tasks, as far as I can recall.

 

[Jackelmyer]

Not sure I get the scenario you describe, but doors are now the same as other blocks, they just are considered to have less health than they actually do. Depth is not exactly what it is doing. It is path of least resistance (lowest health) in all directions to you.

So to try and put into my own words so I can understand... Bare with me.

"It is path of least resistance (lowest health) in all directions to you".

This means that...

1. Multiple Paths are generated (got it) to reach a player.
   
2. A list of blocks along each path are obtained. Assuming a 2 or 3 block high list along the whole path.
   
3. The total health of the blocks that would need to be destroyed is calculated across these lists of blocks per path. (middle block, then high/low check with low favored.
   
4. The path with least resistance is found.
   

is that right?

And @Roland, I don't think that the Door Honey Pot issue is getting resolved here. Though honestly you know more about it. But "zombies choosing doors for the sake of doors" still sounds like it's in effect. @fataal, if memory serves, never stated that the pathing evaluation putting doors at 25% of their health made a difference. And he stated that the goal of "path of least resistance" is still the goal of the AI.

 

[Roland]

Was a door and a gas barrel really the only problem? I thought there was more to it than that. hmm.

Well that was just one example but because doors were specifically targeted by zombies you could place doors for the purpose of attracting zombies to that location. Then shoot them or blow up a gas barrel next to them etc.

The difference is that now the player is squarely the target and not doors. If a zombie approaches a door on their way to you and the door is the weakest obstacle then they will break down the door but they won't go for doors simply because they're attracted to doors any longer.

 

[Guppycur]

Yes.

/speaking for the devs since 1971

 

[Jackelmyer]

Well that was just one example but because doors were specifically targeted by zombies you could place doors for the purpose of attracting zombies to that location. Then shoot them or blow up a gas barrel next to them etc.
The difference is that now the player is squarely the target and not doors. If a zombie approaches a door on their way to you and the door is the weakest obstacle then they will break down the door but they won't go for doors simply because they're attracted to doors any longer.

Ooooh I read fataal's descriptions very differently my friend.

Though the Player is Squarely the target may be a change to the pathing system. However the overall priority before ever reaching a player, is Path of Least Resistance. At least that's how I read it. So Doors are still going to attract zombies heavily. Which, if I also understand fataal's threads, that's a game play design choice that doesn't seem to be going away.

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Yes.
/speaking for the devs since 1971

lol. Thanks O speaker of Devs.

 

[Roland]

Ooooh I read fataal's descriptions very differently my friend.
Though the Player is Squarely the target may be a change to the pathing system. However the overall priority before ever reaching a player, is Path of Least Resistance. At least that's how I read it. So Doors are still going to attract zombies heavily. Which, if I also understand fataal's threads, that's a game play design choice that doesn't seem to be going away.

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lol. Thanks O speaker of Devs.

Yes....as long as the door is between the zombie and me.

Pre A-17

Put a door in a field and when zombies are aggroed they will go destroy the door because that is a prioritized AI-Task in a list of tasks that include attack the player.

A-17 and onward

Put a door in a field and the zombie will ignore it if it isn't an obstruction on the way to get to you because now there is no AI-task to go destroy doors.

So in terms of geometry doors are attractive when the zombie, a door, and you are co-linear in that order but when the three of you form the vertices of a triangle not so much. There may still be exploits that can be found and perhaps people will still avoid using doors in their ground level base designs but the new approach does close some strange behaviors and other exploits.

 

[Mikee]

Oh, all right. Boy, you guys want everything.
View attachment 24553

i gues its not that hard to add a magazine, wich unlocks these kind of paints. i would like them in vanilla too

 

[Roland]

faatal,

Here is another question I just thought of. What are your plans if any regarding zombies always targeting the player who most recently injured them? Similarly, what about how in general a zombie that has targeted Player A will completely ignore Player B even if player B stands right in their path? Does the pathing system also allow zombies to change targets to the nearest most easily reached player?

The tried and true yo-yo action of getting a zombie between two players and each alternating attacks can be fun but its also predictable and simplistic.

 

[Guppycur]

Yes....as long as the door is between the zombie and me.
Pre A-17

Put a door in a field and when zombies are aggroed they will go destroy the door because that is a prioritized AI-Task in a list of tasks that include attack the player.

A-17 and onward

Put a door in a field and the zombie will ignore it if it isn't an obstruction on the way to get to you because now there is no AI-task to go destroy doors.

So in terms of geometry doors are attractive when the zombie, a door, and you are co-linear in that order but when the three of you form the vertices of a triangle not so much. There may still be exploits that can be found and perhaps people will still avoid using doors in their ground level base designs but the new approach does close some strange behaviors and other exploits.

Don't forget the door bonus though, so they will likely be more attracted to them.

 

[Roland]

Yes the door bonus will make them appear weaker compared to nearby blocks but again they are only going to break doors as a means to path to you now which is distinctly different than before.

I did an interesting test awhile back. I duplicated the break door AI-Task line so there were two of them at the top of the task list. After doing that I could go stand next to zombies on the ground and they would largely ignore me if there were any doors nearby....

On a side note I also removed the break blocks AI-Task because I wanted to see what it would be like if zombies only went for doors and couldn't destroy even wood walls. I built a rectangular building and put one door on each face. Then I spawned in 25 zombies. The zombies didn't attack the walls of my building at all. Some of them went for the doors and broke them down and others milled around below me trying to get to me (I was standing on the roof) When I added the second line of attacking doors and did it again almost all the zombies went for the doors and I could even drop down to the ground and most ignored me in favor of the doors.

 

[Lonestarcanuck]

Just doors. Barrels were for a heatsource to attract screamers. Doors are the only block specifically targeted by <=a16 ai-tasks, as far as I can recall.

but wait I like 3 campfires in front of a door and let them all burn - that won't work? I guess a cheap wooden door with fires in front with a vault door behind it will work. I assuming the rest of my cube is concrete.

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faatal,
Here is another question I just thought of. What are your plans if any regarding zombies always targeting the player who most recently injured them? Similarly, what about how in general a zombie that has targeted Player A will completely ignore Player B even if player B stands right in their path? Does the pathing system also allow zombies to change targets to the nearest most easily reached player?

The tried and true yo-yo action of getting a zombie between two players and each alternating attacks can be fun but its also predictable and simplistic.

I feel a zombie should finish who it is attacking. if there is AI, maybe a zombie can see the limping goof who broke his leg and go after them like TWD season 4 I think.

 

[Xeen]

I feel a zombie should finish who it is attacking. if there is AI, maybe a zombie can see the limping goof who broke his leg and go after them like TWD season 4 I think.

I suppose it all depends on your point of view, some people think that a mob should attack the player with the most agro, instead of just attacking the first player who shoots it.

 

[beerfly]

Just add a bar above player head to show how much they made the zed angry. Make zed act like a kid with internet addiction, but with no internet and this will look good.

Now serious. Distracting zeds from when a crippled friend or while someone`s blood is leaking badly is pretty helpfull in my experience.