PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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C'mon Tin. It's Christmas, throw the grammer nazis a bone for God's sake...
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Hey, I'm drin..erm Cooking! :p

I'm dangerous near a KB during the Holidays ;)

That's why I'm not releasing my mod till tomorrow... >.>

 
Yes on Vulcan support. Please read the first post of this thread. It has this and other tidbits of information.

 
You wouldn't happen to have a link would you?

EDIT: Well, I've read the first post a couple of times and never saw that. Thanks Roland

 
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The health bars are somewhat that troubles me. They seem misplaced in this game. Its sorta immersion breaking.

Knowing how much life the lifeless stinky walking meat bags have left seems inappropriate. It kills the randomness of situations and instead replaces them with a pure numbers game. This is okay for RTS games and probably for quiet a few other genres but it feels misplaced here because of the nature of this particular game.

And even in PvP it feels wrong. Sure, in a real life situations you might see your enemy bleed and you get some sort of idea how badly wounded he is - which we can't really see in 7 Days. But on the other hand we shouldn't know for sure. In a situation where we both are wounded I would probably not re-engage carelessly sticking to the small chance of maybe winning the confrontation. But if I'm able to know that my opponent has just 10 hp left while I'm at (i.e.) 50% it will radically change my decision making.

Same goes for killing Zeds. Its awkward to think "oh hey, just 20 hp left" and kill it without fear instead of "hm damn, this guy still stands" and stay focussed and careful.

If this really is something you guys want to implement please consider to make it a setting on game creation. Which either activates or deactivates it for everyone.
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Agreed. Please make it an option to turn off. I like this game because of the immersion. HP bars ruin that immersion aspect. I was hoping that TFP stayed as close to Walking Dead as possible (they do not see HP bars). I like the RPG aspects of Fallout in 7DTD but without HP bars. HP bars are knowing when the bomb explodes as opposed to, "OMG! When is this bomb going to explode? Do I have enough time to grab one more item or do I flee the scene, NOW!?" HP ruins the unexpected because now you know the unexpected and can assume your own outcome. Please remove, or have the ability to remove, the HP bars. Onboard with most other changes.

 
I have noticed one thing...it seems that everyone would be happy if one thing is true...every option in game is able to be turned on or off. Simple as that. You don't like it turn it off...you like it turn it on.

 
I have noticed one thing...it seems that everyone would be happy if one thing is true...every option in game is able to be turned on or off. Simple as that. You don't like it turn it off...you like it turn it on.
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They allow that now.... via modding...... doubt TFP will waste time on making further options available when things can be modded and tweaked easily.

 
Was wondering about the new update that is coming and saw some reworking done to the skill system.

I would like to offer a suggestion, since we already have perks related to firearms like better lead of dead is there any way we can get perks for archery? My suggestion as to what it would do could be increased entity damage scaling the same as gun perks do and increased headshot % damage.

Hope you like this idea

 
You know, I'm going to defend the health bars from a realism angle.

In the real world, if I hit someone repeatedly with a spiked club or stabbed them repeatedly or shot them repeatedly, I'd be able to see what I'd done. They'd have injuries, and I'd have at least a clue how bad those injuries were.

Even on a zombie that doesn't feel pain or bleed out, you'd still be able to see that half their head was missing or that you'd broken their spine and they were now having trouble walking.

But in the game, each zombie uses a specific model with specific textures. More, it has a standard set of animations. Unless it's actually had a limb removed - which is the only thing that is visible on them as damage - a zombie that's been blown to hell and back with a shotgun and is barely held together by a few bits of sinew looks and moves exactly the same as one that's completely uninjured. In fact, if there are multiple zombies of the same type going for you it's impossible to tell which of them you've already bashed half to death and which you haven't yet touched.

So a health bar for zombies is one of those things that gives you information that would be obvious to your character but which isn't apparent to the player. The character should be able to see how damaged a zombie is, even though the player is only shown the same textured model.

Now that doesn't mean that a health bar needs to be 100% accurate. It could be randomised so it only shows the zombie's approximate health rather than its exact health. Similarly, it doesn't say anything about the positioning of the health bar or how prominent it should be. But in the absence of a detailed texture/model degradation system (something which I'd love, by the way), it's the only way we can tell whether a zombie is being badly damaged by our attacks or is simply shrugging them off - and that's something that, from a realism point of view, our character should be able to see and therefore the player should have at least some feedback on.

 
You know, I'm going to defend the health bars from a realism angle.
In the real world, if I hit someone repeatedly with a spiked club or stabbed them repeatedly or shot them repeatedly, I'd be able to see what I'd done. They'd have injuries, and I'd have at least a clue how bad those injuries were.

Even on a zombie that doesn't feel pain or bleed out, you'd still be able to see that half their head was missing or that you'd broken their spine and they were now having trouble walking.

But in the game, each zombie uses a specific model with specific textures. More, it has a standard set of animations. Unless it's actually had a limb removed - which is the only thing that is visible on them as damage - a zombie that's been blown to hell and back with a shotgun and is barely held together by a few bits of sinew looks and moves exactly the same as one that's completely uninjured. In fact, if there are multiple zombies of the same type going for you it's impossible to tell which of them you've already bashed half to death and which you haven't yet touched.

So a health bar for zombies is one of those things that gives you information that would be obvious to your character but which isn't apparent to the player. The character should be able to see how damaged a zombie is, even though the player is only shown the same textured model.

Now that doesn't mean that a health bar needs to be 100% accurate. It could be randomised so it only shows the zombie's approximate health rather than its exact health. Similarly, it doesn't say anything about the positioning of the health bar or how prominent it should be. But in the absence of a detailed texture/model degradation system (something which I'd love, by the way), it's the only way we can tell whether a zombie is being badly damaged by our attacks or is simply shrugging them off - and that's something that, from a realism point of view, our character should be able to see and therefore the player should have at least some feedback on.
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Healthbars are only red rectangles that get shorter indicating that something is about to be turned into a ragdoll, they don't "show" how damaged someone or something is. Like you say, if I want my game to give info on how much damage has been dealt to an entity, I'd add a change to the model to show it, otherwise no healthbars is preferable.

 
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I don't really get the immersion breaking argument for on screen information. I ignore the on screen stuff until I need info or I have a down moment where not a lot is going on. I don't obsess over it but I do like it handy and convenient. This game needs a whole lot better feedback system in place before they remove the gadgets from the interface. I don't need to know I'm at 12% of anything but it sure would be nice to know it went from "I can still manage" to "really bad" or "need to do something about this ASAP". If I'm below 50% health and bleeding out that's a whole lot different situation than I'm starving to death, even if they share the same end result if untreated.

 
Healthbars are only red rectangles that get shorter indicating that something is about to be turned into a ragdoll, they don't "show" how damaged someone or something is. Like you say, if I want my game to give info on how much damage has been dealt to an entity, I'd add changed to the model to show it, otherwise no healthbars is preferable.
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exactly... there is an example of what can be done and thats to mimic crates/blocks, you see actual damage indicators like cracks forming. this can be done by adding blood/bruising to npcs that take damage. seriously, we have them losing limbs and such so it is a plausible idea and pretty sure no one would object to that.. cant female dog about the blood because its a kill something type of game.

 
They allow that now.... via modding...... doubt TFP will waste time on making further options available when things can be modded and tweaked easily.
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I am not sure everything can be modded and tweaked right now and even if it can be, it is not easily done by everyone. The rest of us have to rely on the modders and hope the tweaks we would like are done by some kind soul out there.

I wasn't really suggesting that everything be able to be turned on and off...just that it seems that would be the only thing that would make everyone happy.

 
When things are more done. Donner.
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You know Dasher and Dancer and Prancer and Vixen,

you know Comet and Cupid and Donner and Blitzen,

But do you recall

The most famous reindeer of all

Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer

Had a very shiny nose

And if you ever saw it

You would even say it glows

All of the other reindeer

Used to laugh and call him names

They never let poor Rudolph

Join in any reindeer games

Then one foggy Christmas Eve,

Santa came to say,

Rudolph with your nose so bright,

Won't you guide my sleigh tonight

Then how all the reindeer loved him,

As they shouted out with glee,

Rudolph the red-nose Reindeer

You'll go down in history

Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer

Had a very shiny nose

And if you ever saw it,

You would even say it glows,

And all of the other reindeer

Used to laugh and call him names,

They never let poor Rudolph

Join in any reindeer games,

Then one foggy Christmas Eve,

Santa came to say,

Rudolph with your nose so bright,

Won't you guide my sleigh tonight

Then how all the reindeer loved him,

As they shouted out with glee,

Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer,

You'll go down in history
 
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You know, I'm going to defend the health bars from a realism angle.
In the real world, if I hit someone repeatedly with a spiked club or stabbed them repeatedly or shot them repeatedly, I'd be able to see what I'd done. They'd have injuries, and I'd have at least a clue how bad those injuries were.

Even on a zombie that doesn't feel pain or bleed out, you'd still be able to see that half their head was missing or that you'd broken their spine and they were now having trouble walking.

But in the game, each zombie uses a specific model with specific textures. More, it has a standard set of animations. Unless it's actually had a limb removed - which is the only thing that is visible on them as damage - a zombie that's been blown to hell and back with a shotgun and is barely held together by a few bits of sinew looks and moves exactly the same as one that's completely uninjured. In fact, if there are multiple zombies of the same type going for you it's impossible to tell which of them you've already bashed half to death and which you haven't yet touched.

So a health bar for zombies is one of those things that gives you information that would be obvious to your character but which isn't apparent to the player. The character should be able to see how damaged a zombie is, even though the player is only shown the same textured model.

Now that doesn't mean that a health bar needs to be 100% accurate. It could be randomised so it only shows the zombie's approximate health rather than its exact health. Similarly, it doesn't say anything about the positioning of the health bar or how prominent it should be. But in the absence of a detailed texture/model degradation system (something which I'd love, by the way), it's the only way we can tell whether a zombie is being badly damaged by our attacks or is simply shrugging them off - and that's something that, from a realism point of view, our character should be able to see and therefore the player should have at least some feedback on.
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My personal opinion.....I like the health bar. I figure it will actually be smaller than the first iteration of it. I also liked seeing how green around the jowls it made Roland. LOL

 
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