PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[2ndRecon]

It it not an oversight, since we intentionally removed it. I hated it and I don't think any of us are wanting to bring it back.

That, and you eat up brazillions of item-IDs / block-IDs with stuff that's more of a novelty. It never really affected the end-game because you could inevitably find high quality complete guns at the higher Scavenging levels in the earlier alpha's anyway.

I do hope someone figures out how to Mod a .50cal on the Jeep so the shotgun rider can shoot.

Most folks I talk to prefer the "find complete usable weapons" (which is more realistic anyway) and then allow CRAFTING of game-changing Mods / Enhancements to the existing weapon.

I don't see a difference between "OMG OMG I found a 594 barrel for my sniper" vs. "OMG OMG OMG I found a fire-rate-spring for my AK"

 

[Gazz]

Thank god. I hate hate hate hate those gun parts in A16. Hate them. Although, I do kinda miss the free iron scrap ... because that's what i did with them. Find ... scrap. Find ... cuss ... scrap.

Well, now you get mechanical parts.

I see people complaining about too many guns being looted and I see people complaining that the game is too difficult and that they keep dying over and over.... Where does the complaining end?

There are others who are playing A17 on insane or always-run.

 

[2ndRecon]

That takes us back to the "we'll rely on modders to expand upon the idea" argument I had in another thread. Its awesome for us to have this system yes. It will spark some great ideas and mods, but how fair is it to the average player that that is the answer to all of their issues.
If the system needs to rely on modders to make it great or expand on it (and it may not it IS still experimental so i have no idea where it will all end up) then the system is fundamentally flawed.

The system you are describing could have still been implemented and had with quality remaining as is. Add the mod slots on TOP of the parts and on top of the stats to a level 349 bat lets say. Imagine the possible unique combos if they had done THAT.

You bring up an interesting point Jax.

Isn't it more pragmatic to look at the current state of this App as sort of pseudo-SDK, anyway ?

I mean, it's not exactly a cash grab for TFP. We had this age old exchange over the last year of RHs development. What is unique to play-style and what is core to the Dogma of the game itself ?

Lets face facts, they're not exactly raking in additional royalties or new players with A17, and any potential future Gold release seems more unlikely than ever given the time it took to do the refactoring for Unity2017. (of course, we all thought the same about R*st at one point).

It seems to me from an outsider's point of view that it is sort of a labor of love "get your troubled teen into a nice junior college" type endeavor, as opposed to a "take community feedback and integrate it into future creative decisions". LOL.

If the Modder community bands together, prioritizes player and server-Operator wishes and aggressively produces content, I think it's a win for everyone, regardless of what the principal developers do with the core game. It doesn't look like anything has been flat -locked out- from being enhanced, tweaked or modded. I could definitely do without rubber banding Zombies and almost unkillable Elite's like the Feral Solider, but hey, every game has it's bogeyman, right ?

If the RWG, colliders, and entity location / spawn stuff can be resolved quickly, I see a really strong future for the next year of 7Days.

 

[GARGEAN]

Or, make guns scrapable into "gun parts" and then those can be used to repair guns? (Thanks Aureleus!)

I am not exactly interested in repair. Or mods for that matter. Quality was always my endgame. When base established, farm provides, wellness is 200, and I am in full iron armor and with handy crossbow/shotgun and steel tools, making all that close to 600 while wandering around WAS my endgame. Now this game have close to none for me.

 

[Guppycur]

You bring up an interesting point Jax.
Isn't it more pragmatic to look at the current state of this App as sort of pseudo-SDK, anyway ?

I mean, it's not exactly a cash grab for TFP. We had this age old exchange over the last year of RHs development. What is unique to play-style and what is core to the Dogma of the game itself ?

Lets face facts, they're not exactly raking in additional royalties or new players with A17, and any potential future Gold release seems more unlikely than ever given the time it took to do the refactoring for Unity2017. (of course, we all thought the same about R*st at one point).

It seems to me from an outsider's point of view that it is sort of a labor of love "get your troubled teen into a nice junior college" type endeavor, as opposed to a "take community feedback and integrate it into future creative decisions". LOL.

If the Modder community bands together, prioritizes player and server-Operator wishes and aggressively produces content, I think it's a win for everyone, regardless of what the principal developers do with the core game. It doesn't look like anything has been flat -locked out- from being enhanced, tweaked or modded. I could definitely do without rubber banding Zombies and almost unkillable Elite's like the Feral Solider, but hey, every game has it's bogeyman, right ?

If the RWG, colliders, and entity location / spawn stuff can be resolved quickly, I see a really strong future for the next year of 7Days.

I'd love to know your source. You think they're not selling new copies and that a Gold release is unlikely.

- - - Updated - - -

Then surely you understand that people in the random gen thread have every right to be upset because great is indeed subjective.
Ill admit defeat here Gup. It's impossible to debate you because you actually argue both sides at once. Are you running for Governor of Texas by any chance? I get the feeling you would have a natural gift at politics

It's not both sides, it's acceptance that the game is going to be what the game is going to be, AND I think it's going to be better a few weeks from now than it is now. It's literally not only still in development, but in experimental, which the pimps choose to use as a time to balance, polish and finish intended features.

...I think the problem here is, too many people are seeing a17 as "it". As if there will be no more improvements, or additions... and although yes, we are getting closer to "it", and "it" is definitely more clearly defined, we're not there yet.

 

[HungryZombie]

Anyone else have a stock pile of guns after a few days? Having guns don't feel as special anymore.. Seem so common! What do you guys think? Also anyone think zombie jumping seems.... kinda off?

You have to look at things differently. The guns are not important. It's the mods you need to seek out. A purple gun is the same as a grey one without any mods in it.

- - - Updated - - -

So what's the point of looting now? You know once you find a gun safe you will have a stockpile of guns. I'll have to find a mod to fix this too. Maybe hold a poll to see what people want?
There is no challenge in guns anymore. Day one and I was drowning in guns. One of the reasons to loot was to find gun parts.

guns are pretty useless without the mods. Take a lot of shots to take a zombie down. Mods is the new 600 purple item to find!

 

[xyth]

That takes us back to the "we'll rely on modders to expand upon the idea" argument I had in another thread. Its awesome for us to have this system yes. It will spark some great ideas and mods, but how fair is it to the average player that that is the answer to all of their issues.
If the system needs to rely on modders to make it great or expand on it (and it may not it IS still experimental so i have no idea where it will all end up) then the system is fundamentally flawed.

The system you are describing could have still been implemented and had with quality remaining as is. Add the mod slots on TOP of the parts and on top of the stats to a level 349 bat lets say. Imagine the possible unique combos if they had done THAT.

Its pretty easy to created different base bats, like a 100 quality, 300 quality equivalent , call them whatever, with each level having better base stats, then modify from there. The current vanilla system supports bringing back almost exactly what you say your missing, and its all done in XML. No code needed. I view vanilla as TFP's A17 "Mod", but they provide an xml way to put things back to their old A16 mod way of doing things.

 

[2ndRecon]

I'd love to know your source. You think they're not selling new copies and that a Gold release is unlikely.

Gup, I don't have a source because i am the source. It's just an opinion. </sarcasm> <grinz>

I made the statement because in the last 15 months of lurking there have been dozens of outrageous comments like "Pimps took the money and ran, and left the backers and buyers holding the bag waiting for another Alpha".

My only point is that the time for a cash grab has long since passed.

As to my comment about a Gold release, that's not meant to incite or infer "fact". It's hyperbole. Based on my own personal experience in a software dev world, this doesn't look like a product that's 8 sprints away from a final QA.

You have a studio that hates giving deadlines and dates due to the community showing up with pitchforks and axes when the date slips.

You have a massive refactoring effort for an engine revision that not only altered gameplay but also the MP mechanics, netcode, etc. (in many instances in a very negative way based on initial experimental feedback.

Then you have the typical issues that creep into any Dev project like errata, omissions, and crap that works in the QA but not at scale, that is going to most likely mean things that are broken, for some but not all, may be nerfed or removed.

So when I say "Gold seems more unlikely" I mean that in the context of "now that we have seen what A17 really "is and isn't" at least at this phase of the experimental, it's clear there's much to do to qualm the hysteria and polish the product.

To be candid, I thought 16.4 would be the eventual RC to make the leap to GOLD. There are enough substantial changes and problems today, that I personally think it's fair to anticipate several more Experimental sub-releases before you are even sniffing something that looks like a shippable product.

 

[meganoth]

That takes us back to the "we'll rely on modders to expand upon the idea" argument I had in another thread. Its awesome for us to have this system yes. It will spark some great ideas and mods, but how fair is it to the average player that that is the answer to all of their issues.

No, that takes us back to "Some like it, some don't". The DON'Ts have to mod, the others not.

 

[wolfbain5]

here's an option. Sure you find lots of weapons, lose the incentive to go out and get more. ok, for vanilla if that is what they want, so be it, but what if every time you repped your weapon, it's durability permanently went down. Eventually to the point where you want a newer one to fit your mods into?

wonder if this can be modded in.

 

[Nugetti]

I wonder, now that the "sensed - spotted" eye in crouch mode is gone, are zombie footstep sounds going to be a thing..?

Would sure help with the current ninja zombies.

 

[2ndRecon]

here's an option. Sure you find lots of weapons, lose the incentive to go out and get more. ok, for vanilla if that is what they want, so be it, but what if every time you repped your weapon, it's durability permanently went down. Eventually to the point where you want a newer one to fit your mods into?
wonder if this can be modded in.

I like this idea alot.

Since the number of Mod slots is dependent on the Quality of the weapon, could we reduce the "active mod slots" of the weapon, once it drops below a certain durability ?

So I really like my AK, but once it drops from 5->>>>4, I lose my scope, or my spring, or something.

 

[Gnomaana]

here's an option. Sure you find lots of weapons, lose the incentive to go out and get more. ok, for vanilla if that is what they want, so be it, but what if every time you repped your weapon, it's durability permanently went down. Eventually to the point where you want a newer one to fit your mods into?
wonder if this can be modded in.

This is, so far, my only real complaint with A17. The durability system has been nerfed out of existence. If the RNG gods give me that nice lvl 5 or 6 gun on day 5. That's it. I'm done looking for guns because it will NEVER break. I will never need to replace it. I can repair it forever. I like the old 1-600 system for quality and repairing permanently lowering that quality. I hope they go back to that type of system with the quality also at least slightly affecting damage even with no mods. It would really help with progression feeling like ....well progression.

Early game has no actual feel of progression. Ooh I got a lvl 2 gun. So what? It doesn't do any more damage and I can't make mods yet so the only real difference is the pretty 2 underneath the different colored bar. Same with tools.

I also really wanted farming to get more complicated not less. Just because the skill system is in place now doesn't mean it has to be the ONLY way things get better. Fertilizer could have still been a part of the process. And, when it is fixed, water could have become part of the farming process. If you want a farm you should have to work at it instead of this plant and forget type thing. Hope that gets a new look at later in development.

So what was that? Three things when I said I only had one? Lol

All that aside, I love the new Zombie AI and am having a blast playing so I'm willing to wait and see on the few things I don't like.

Edit: Almost forgot. Player bags need to stay around a bit longer. Died 10 in game minutes before night and my bag went poof at 5:20AM the next morning. There was zero chance I was getting that bag back.

 

[Guppycur]

I like this idea alot.
Since the number of Mod slots is dependent on the Quality of the weapon, could we reduce the "active mod slots" of the weapon, once it drops below a certain durability ?

So I really like my AK, but once it drops from 5->>>>4, I lose my scope, or my spring, or something.

Seems artificial. If we're going to do that, go back to pins and springs, aka gun parts. I don't mind a gun not degrading; yes, they need maintenance, but for the most part, stay pretty damn resilient. No, I think the proper solution is bullets. Which, from MY play experience, they've done.

 

[quilmeshou]

I love a lot of features recently introduced to the game, like recycling arrows, using stones for distraction (finally) and a lot of new things. However i still cant play online, also the melee system needs some refining, like weapons being capable of hitting multiple enemies at once, even with the light attack.

 

[Flat0ut]

Can someone truly confirm that perks unlocking crafting stuff are somewhat broken??? Is there any fix for that?? I have all my xml broken and cant craft: Chemistry station, table saw, also noticed that bandolier cannot be crafted even with tier 3 yeah, science. There might be more problems tho...

 

[FileMachete]

Wonder if adding a few more options in the Game Options -> Block Durability might be a win?

Right now it offers 25, 50, 100 & 200% (I think). Add in 125, 150, 175. Heck maybe even 225, 250.

This is coming from dev comments on what the Difficulty changes, which I think was just Damage Player does & Damage Z's do to Players.

Point would be, maybe, that those that like to build early on would have a pretty focused option to make that a bit more doable, and could notch it back to keep the pressure on.

Just a thought

Edit: damn it. I wouldn't want this to effect boulders, dirt, etc., and I have no idea if it does or not...

 

[jcalvelli]

Except for the real bugs, I think people are complaining too much! The level of crying is too damn high!

My real concern is about the level up process.

I think A17 is an amazing update but I don't like the idea of "zombie hunt game" and this alpha looks like that. Snoman wrote a post about approaching that matter on page 2836 (post #42534) and I replayed two pages after (post #42570).

Everyone use TWD as reference and zombie killing in the show only occurs when is really necessary. I started to play the game at A14, and since A16 I’ve been seen this movement towards “zombie hunt game” and I don’t like it.

I thought 7DtD was a survival/constructing game (the real reason I love this game so much!), so the main activity to obtain XP should not be killing zombies.

I want to know the opinion of MM, Roland, Gaaz, Faatal and the rest of TFP team.

 

[wolfbain5]

Except for the real bugs, I think people are complaining too much! The level of crying is too damn high!
My real concern is about the level up process.

I think A17 is an amazing update but I don't like the idea of "zombie hunt game" and this alpha looks like that. Snoman wrote a post about approaching that matter on page 2836 (post #42534) and I replayed two pages after (post #42570).

Everyone use TWD as reference and zombie killing in the show only occurs when is really necessary. I started to play the game at A14, and since A16 I’ve been seen this movement towards “zombie hunt game” and I don’t like it.

I thought 7DtD was a survival/constructing game (the real reason I love this game so much!), so the main activity to obtain XP should not be killing zombies.

I want to know the opinion of MM, Roland, Gaaz, Faatal and the rest of TFP team.

you have it, it's called the game you are playing

 

[Moldy Bread]

If the "quality" of the gun does not matter then why even have the 1-6 system at all? All the guns have the same damage output. At least with the gun part system your gun actually got better. What I don't understand is why people think we can't have the old part system AND mods? There is no real progression. Once I get a gun... That's it. The only way to improve it is with mods and they don't do to much anyway. The whole system feels dumbed down. I know that when I open a safe or a create a full gun will be in there. After that I just need to craft repair kits and then there is no longer an incentive to loot. I can get plenty of guns from a small store or house or (rather game-breakingly) craft them. So what's the point of even going into the new POIs? If the devs are set into this unrewarding (imo) system then I desperately hope someone mods the A16 system into A17 with weapon mod capability. Because, right now there's really no motivation to play. Crafting bases is pointless and so is looting. If I wanna grind zombies I can just play Left4Dead or Cod Zombies.