PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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I think you can make the new random gen larger but none of the three options Roland talked about would be. The current random gen is 20kmx20km. The radiation turns the usable portion of that 20x20 into a circle with radius of 10km. So the 16x16 would still be smaller than the current random gen map. Most likely xml editable to be any size you want though.
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That kind of sucks. A system as been put in place to handle massive map sizes, a requested feature by many players, and the ability to use it is hidden away in the xml where many players are afraid to go?

"Sense much not this makes"

Yoda

 
Like serverhopping at the borders? cool... please not for A17 but cool...
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Exactly. I guess you could have a SP/multi map, but Multi-Player/multi-map/multi-server is the future. How mind blowing would that be?

You KNOW someone will eventually have a map made of New York city with all the subways and sewers! :D

 
That kind of sucks. A system as been put in place to handle massive map sizes, a requested feature by many players, and the ability to use it is hidden away in the xml where many players are afraid to go?
"Sense much not this makes"

Yoda
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At first the only size was to be 8km x 8km cause that is the best the system was handling, then as they made fixes to bugs, etc. I believe Kinjayuu stated (may he correct me if I'm wrong) that they then made it to where you could choose 4x4, 8x8, 16x16. It seems like as more gets worked and fixed, by gold you could have double that, who knows.

Honestly, when a game closes off options for stuff, people don't care, but as a game gives people more options, people get mad it's not infinite options and ranges. I seriously don't understand that logic at times. Be happy you get options to curtail the game to how you want to play, one of the reasons I love this game so much. So many options to change, even just in game disregarding xmls, that changes how one has to play to survive. Very few other games have that.

 
That kind of sucks. A system as been put in place to handle massive map sizes, a requested feature by many players, and the ability to use it is hidden away in the xml where many players are afraid to go?
"Sense much not this makes"

Yoda
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I disagree. I can think of one obvious reason to only allow larger map sizes by xml. Support requests. If TFP allows you to change the map to any size via the menu, they will inevitably get support requests complaining about performance (or other problems) on larger maps. By limiting those larger maps to xml changes, they may more easily state that those larger map sizes are not officially supported.

 
Exactly. I guess you could have a SP/multi map, but Multi-Player/multi-map/multi-server is the future. How mind blowing would that be?

You KNOW someone will eventually have a map made of New York city with all the subways and sewers! :D
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I could see the muli-map function being in there, but multi-server, doubt it. I wouldn't understand how going from a map on day 50 to then going to the next map over and it's day 700. That would cause so many issues.

But say you have time to create 40 maps, must be same size. Make these maps (our current ones) "regional maps". Have a function or program in place to place them side by side to create a "world map". This world map has the day counter, etc. So moving maps keeps same day. Especially since maps are now created into files, loading would be pretty quick comparatively and you keep same profile.

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I disagree. I can think of one obvious reason to only allow larger map sizes by xml. Support requests. If TFP allows you to change the map to any size via the menu, they will inevitably get support requests complaining about performance (or other problems) on larger maps. By limiting those larger maps to xml changes, they may more easily state that those larger map sizes are not officially supported.
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This is true. Pretty much goes back to the shaking issue on larger maps greater than what they have default or when people change biome sizes or other options that end up causing problems. The system just doesn't work with it, so nothing to fix or work on.

 
I thought depending on how many players and other factors, even if the current map is at 10km, I've heard of shaking starting for some people at half that. So really their playable map became about 5-7km and couldn't use the rest meaning their playable map just became smaller than a full 16x16 or even 8x8 that has no shaking and can be used fully.
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Oh, I'm not griping about the change. I was just talking about dimensions. If it makes the game play better I am all for the changes.

 
At first the only size was to be 8km x 8km cause that is the best the system was handling, then as they made fixes to bugs, etc. I believe Kinjayuu stated (may he correct me if I'm wrong) that they then made it to where you could choose 4x4, 8x8, 16x16. It seems like as more gets worked and fixed, by gold you could have double that, who knows.
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It has very little to do with bugfixing. A "floating origin" system was implemented. I know it well, the code I'm playing with today has a working version in it, I can generate 1 trillion square km before libnoise fails. Theoretically I can extend that further by orders of magnitude using a 128 or 256 bit floating point value but such large numbers will have a performance impact. TFP have pressures on their system that I don't such as settlement generation and roads but that's largely a matter of generation time and disk space.

Any map size limit below the current RNG size renders a floating origin system pretty pointless. Depending on the settings for when the origin moves you may have a tiny bit more accuracy at the edge of the map but not really enough of an impact to justify implementing the system in the first place.

 
I could see the muli-map function being in there, but multi-server, doubt it. I wouldn't understand how going from a map on day 50 to then going to the next map over and it's day 700. That would cause so many issues.
But say you have time to create 40 maps, must be same size. Make these maps (our current ones) "regional maps". Have a function or program in place to place them side by side to create a "world map". This world map has the day counter, etc. So moving maps keeps same day. Especially since maps are now created into files, loading would be pretty quick comparatively and you keep same profile.
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It would have to be a co-op of server owners who start on the same day and share character profiles. OR... everyone logs on one server and the log-on server sends you to a server that has your current map loaded.

Might be too much for individuals, maybe TFP would have to get it going as a element of 7D2D Part 2.

 
I disagree. I can think of one obvious reason to only allow larger map sizes by xml. Support requests. If TFP allows you to change the map to any size via the menu, they will inevitably get support requests complaining about performance (or other problems) on larger maps. By limiting those larger maps to xml changes, they may more easily state that those larger map sizes are not officially supported.
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The only performance issue is changing the origin point, after that everything is relative, just as everything is currently relative to (0,0,0) coordinates.

 
It has very little to do with bugfixing. A "floating origin" system was implemented. I know it well, the code I'm playing with today has a working version in it, I can generate 1 trillion square km before libnoise fails. Theoretically I can extend that further by orders of magnitude using a 128 or 256 bit floating point value but such large numbers will have a performance impact. TFP have pressures on their system that I don't such as settlement generation and roads but that's largely a matter of generation time and disk space.
Any map size limit below the current RNG size renders a floating origin system pretty pointless. Depending on the settings for when the origin moves you may have a tiny bit more accuracy at the edge of the map but not really enough of an impact to justify implementing the system in the first place.
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Yeah, that. Still waking up. I was remembering parts, just couldn't put words to it and put wrong ones to what I was thinking. Thank you for the clarity.

And as so, it seems like they will be opening it up to larger maps later. I'd rather just see how rwg maps work in the update before I go any larger, I just don't like how sparse POIs are personally.

 
Yeah, that. Still waking up. I was remembering parts, just couldn't put words to it and put wrong ones to what I was thinking. Thank you for the clarity.
And as so, it seems like they will be opening it up to larger maps later. I'd rather just see how rwg maps work in the update before I go any larger, I just don't like how sparse POIs are personally.
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I'm the opposite. I love vast tracts of countryside between habitation. It's pretty hard to build a fortress of solitude just outside of the suburbs :-)

 
That kind of sucks. A system as been put in place to handle massive map sizes, a requested feature by many players, and the ability to use it is hidden away in the xml where many players are afraid to go?
"Sense much not this makes"

Yoda
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As a Star Wars fan, I swear he'd say "Make sense, it does not."

If someone's hosting a server, I'm sure they'd be willing to go into the XML, or the provider by third party would work that one out. ;x

I remember reading that post too now that I see it, the 'Any size you want' part especially.. which scared me. Please keep it 8bit integer!

 
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I'm the opposite. I love vast tracts of countryside between habitation. It's pretty hard to build a fortress of solitude just outside of the suburbs :-)
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Lol, if I do that, I will just take everything down to the dirt and build from there if I can't find a good spot. Did that to all of Diersville at one point. Also, I've like to think of how I would be able to survive if this was more real life in the sense of I have no idea how to build castles, but I know how to make makeshift platforms to get from roof to roof or dig underground to get from house to house. I can't build a house from scratch, but I know how to repair parts of houses.

 
Cats are soft.
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... I was hoping colour coding was clear enough.. ;x

Yes, it says "20% OF previous" not.. 20% smaller! ;U Or.. however else you'd say it.

Also wat? "16 km part is for quadrants. Some people say 'Q1, Q2, Q3, Q4'

Red is the map we have now.

The Light Blue's the 16km one, the Dark Blue's the uhh.. Navezgane.

The Brown is the tiny 2x2 if I remember tha-.. MY MAP COMPARISON SUCKS OKAY? UGGH!!

 
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... I was hoping colour coding was clear enough.. ;x
Yes, it says "20% OF previous" not.. 20% smaller! ;U Or.. however else you'd say it.

Also wat? "16 km part is for quadrants. Some people say 'Q1, Q2, Q3, Q4'

Red is the map we have now.

The Light Blue's the 16km one, the Dark Blue's the uhh.. Navezgane.

The Brown is the tiny 2x2 if I remember tha-.. MY MAP COMPARISON SUCKS OKAY? UGGH!!
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No, it is a good work! Thanks! :smile-new:

 
... I was hoping colour coding was clear enough.. ;x
Yes, it says "20% OF previous" not.. 20% smaller! ;U Or.. however else you'd say it.

Also wat? "16 km part is for quadrants. Some people say 'Q1, Q2, Q3, Q4'

Red is the map we have now.

The Light Blue's the 16km one, the Dark Blue's the uhh.. Navezgane.

The Brown is the tiny 2x2 if I remember tha-.. MY MAP COMPARISON SUCKS OKAY? UGGH!!
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Works well once I know where things go, I just wanted to make sure I didn't get it wrong and start saying wrong things is all, lol.

 
Hmph.. just as well.. ;U *Folds arms*
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well, if I so wished, I could use AutoCAD after work hours to make one too. but I'm more lazy about it than you, so you still win, lol. What software did you use for that?

 
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