PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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Always look in the right 2 windows in the M/M Cabin first. The Forge moves between the B/R & F/P so you can bust 1 window & search it without disturbing a sleeper.

When you are playing T/B only you can use items around you for storage while you are crafting.

Put a C/F in the kitchen of a POI & use the cabinets to store your M/W, Snow, G/J's & eggs, etc....

Once you have enough wood you just have to put storage chests everywhere you go, I would stick to 1 key position in POI's.

 
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Roland, your play style is interesting. I do like the screen without all the info, but I would go nuts without the eye/crosshair.

The backpack progression being talked about would be good for a mod, or as an option for vanilla. Personally, I like the set up as is.

For the backpack progression this might work:

1) The one row backpack just needs grass.

2) 2 row, 20 cloth and two duct tape.

3) 3 row, 20 leather, 4 duct tape (this means you need to make a choice about a backpack, forge, or poncho the first few days.

4) 4 row, 20 leather and 10 military fiber.

(This is just a thought for the discussion, but I prefer what we have in place)

 
Today, I learned that 3 wheeled bicycles are indestructible. Now I want one! Just call me Piney, Jax!

Backpacks- I LIKE the idea of starting with only the tool belt and gaining access to larger inventories as you play.

I would LOVE the option of being able to place a full backpack in the world. You could then organize different packs set up for different activities (i.e. BP for mining, another for looting, gardening, building, whatever.)

Cargo pants, mobile shopping carts, saddle bags for the bikes (and bears!), hand trucks (to move full chests around at your base, stamina drops to zero while using, walk only), purses for small items like Dukes, pills, LOCKPICKS, etc., and of'course a pickup truck you can load chests and boxes into using the hand truck.

 
It seems to me that those wanting a bigger backpack are carrying to much as their "default loadout." In total (backpack and toolbelt), I carry ~10 things for my default loadout. *shrug*
Sure, depends on playstyle and lots of factors like how far away you go from your base most of the time (a builder for example has his food supply nearby most of the time). Also depends on the stage of the game. In the early game or a miner/builder quite reasonable, middle game as a scavenger (with occasional irradiated wraiths and cops) I would say astonishing.

How about it: If it really is for middle game and you are a scavenger, tell us the 10 things. And we ask you afterwards how you get along without A.B and C and why you think this doesn't cut too many corners

 
It will be great in the next alpha if you can use the tv item as a monitor to check your cameras and turrent and with a perk or something to the tv, you can move them. well maybe someday. :smile-new:
A much needed thing!!!

 
I'm for options that give you special items or perks but your minimum game stage should be permanently raised depending on how many bonuses you pick.

 
madmole or anyone at The Fun Pimps,

Will we be getting 1 block ingress/egress?

There is an incorrect myth all POIs need to be redesigned if the player is given 1 block ingress/egress.

This myth is incorrect as currently all the POIs are immersion breaking and illogical. The correction is that all POIs need to be redesigned if 1 block ingress/egress is NOT allowed.

Explanation:

Consider all of the POIs in the game and the way zombies work.

Many places have rooms inside of rooms inside of rooms where the only way barricades could have been placed on both sides is if humans had 1 block ingress/egress, OR there were 0 zombies around and people were willing blocking themselves in to commit suicide/murder in those rooms.

Now consider the state of the world for many of these buildings. These barricades were often placed after doors, windows, etc had been damaged or destroyed. Thus placed after the apocalypse, often replacing some of those items.

This leaves 2 potential explanations:

1). Living Humans were capable of 1 block ingress/egress and the barricades were to stop zombies.

2). After the Zombie Apocalypse there was a very calm, well coordinated world-wide assembly of people who methodically went filling buildings, barricading themselves and each other in (all without attracting any zombies) after which these people all killed themselves in a manner so they would join the zombie ranks. All suicides done city/world wide timely enough that none attracted the attention of any other.

These are the only 2 explanations I can see as a person living in that world. Especially considering the cities, and some of the larger apartment buildings as well as the homes, etc and how they are barricaded.

#1 makes sense, allows for immersion and is logical.

#2 is outrageous, immersion breaking, and illogical.

Currently the player is stuck with #2 as the explanation. A calm orderly post zombie apocalypse mass murder suicide to fill every building by people who were not getting attacked.

 
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I dont know i am sure i fully understand but thats ok i can pinpoint the reason , i am not that smart.

But from what i understand its immersion breaking.

Maybe but there are still toilets with doors yes doors

If i find any outside boards on toilets then its goodbye with a mersenne twister on the harddrive.

Toilets without doors would be gamebreaking for me, gamebreaking like the stack smashing into the heap with no warning or catch exception.

 
Hey everyone check out Roland's video!!!

These mods and the danger in it.

These mods you were using take away all the indicators off of the screen.

The reason that the indicators are put in the game are to simulate the player's natural feelings and self awareness in the game.

IRL (In real life) we know when we are thirsty or hungry or hurt. But how do you do that in a game? You can't. Hence the indicators.

Take those away and you limit your ability to since those things. It's like going death. What you can't hear can still hurt you.

What if you forgot to eat or drink and suddenly your health started dropping. You would look only to find out that you were starving. Suddenly your scrambling for food.

What if you were bleeding out would you know? Not till you dropped dead on the ground.

In the Air force pilots have what is known as the idiot panel. This panel alerts the pilot when it senses something is wrong and tells the pilot what's up.

They also have a computer voice, fondly called bitching Betty (yes really) that starts yelling at them if something is really wrong.

Both were added to the aircraft to keep the pilot from screwing up.

My point is that while these mods look cool. These can lead to problems if you are not carful and in this game you really don't have time to stop and think.

That's why the indicators are needed.

Edit: They also don't allow you to earn the skill points at startup.

 
WoW!!! i didn't mean for everyone to get on Roland's ass about the backpack!

He was just showing something different and I don't even think it's on MM or the teams mind of taking out the backpack!

Some people just can't handle other peoples opinion!

 
Hey Roland. Nice video on working w/o your backpack.
Watched you and wanted to point out a few things.

1.Torches: You can craft more.

2.Was surprised that you did not chop up zombies for resources like fat that is needed for making torches.

3.Snowberry's can go a long way to keeping you fed and alive and all around you. Just don't eat too many of them at once.

4.About snakes: Either go in with a close combat weapon or run away. While they are not fast, they are hard to hit with arrows.

5.Don't forget about making a bone shiv. Like a knife, it can feed you, cloth you, keep you warm and dry. Makes a good weapon to. It is also the best way to gathering meat and fat from dead body's.

6. Turn off your forge when your not using it. Saves a lot of fuel and reduces your heat footprint.

7. If your going to stay close to home. Dump out anything that you don't need so you don't waist stuff by dropping it on the ground.

8. About the forge. Did you know that you can split the stack and put it in both slots to get it possessed twice as fast?

9. Best way to move stashes is to literally drop everything (including clothing) and run. That way you get the most out of each run and are not distracted by zombies other than the need to hurry. Taking a stimulant helps.

10. Arrows. Your using them way to much. Suggest you switch to your ax to finish, like you said you would do earlier in your video.

11. Glad that you finally ate and drank. I was wondering when you were going to look at those stats.

12. TS 33:54 when making choices drop the ax and the bow. You can always recraft them and they were worn out anyway.

13.Lose the grass. You can get grass anywhere. So unless your making stuff out of it. Stow it or drop it. Don't smoke it either.

14. Try scraping stuff whenever you can to save space. Scraping also works like a temporary inventory slot. You can keep it in there till you get back. Things like crappy gun parts, nails and other junk.

Anyways I learned a lot from your video like making more stashes. I like to leave them next to things that are easy to find.

Thanks Roland.
Backseat Gaming is iNCREDIBLY unattractive.

 
That is the most retarded idea ever. No more bases. No more prefabs. 7 dtd literally dies. And really nothing wrong with the backpack atm you can mod it to be bigger or smaller why kill the joy for everyone cause of a few. This would be the worst concept ever.

I can voice my views if it don't agree with you i dont really care. Melodramatic lol its stupid idea plain and simple and i believe your name wasnt mentioned in my reply. It was aimed at Roland's no backpack as well as the idea of crafting backpacks to get bigger. I rather the way it is. And mod it bigger to my style of play.
It's definitely not for everyone and probably not even for me all the time. As an experiment it was quite a bit of fun as it completely changed how I spend my first day and added a feel to the game of literally having your arms full and need to set stuff down before doing something else that was quite refreshing and missing from the vanilla game where you can chop trees and battle zombies while simultaneously crafting complex items. If you're worried that my video is somehow policy then let me reassure you that changing the inventory sizes either up or down is not on TFP radar right now. The way it is now is fine for them too.

Hey Roland. Nice video on working w/o your backpack.
Watched you and wanted to point out a few things.

1.Torches: You can craft more. I know, but I don't worry about lack of light usually anyway.

2.Was surprised that you did not chop up zombies for resources like fat that is needed for making torches. I do chop them up when I have plenty of backpack space. It didn't feel like a priority to me.

3.Snowberry's can go a long way to keeping you fed and alive and all around you. Just don't eat too many of them at once. I hate them

4.About snakes: Either go in with a close combat weapon or run away. While they are not fast, they are hard to hit with arrows. Lesson learned

5.Don't forget about making a bone shiv. Like a knife, it can feed you, cloth you, keep you warm and dry. Makes a good weapon to. It is also the best way to gathering meat and fat from dead body's. I usually do and I keep it in slot 8 of my tool belt. But that is when I have 32 additional slots for other stuff.

6. Turn off your forge when your not using it. Saves a lot of fuel and reduces your heat footprint. Don't be a nag! I conserve in rl because my wife nags me and this is my escape...

7. If your going to stay close to home. Dump out anything that you don't need so you don't waist stuff by dropping it on the ground. I thought I did that using the chest I made and then the cupboard in the cabin <shrug>

8. About the forge. Did you know that you can split the stack and put it in both slots to get it possessed twice as fast? Yes, I know. But I don't worry about playing optimally.




9. Best way to move stashes is to literally drop everything (including clothing) and run. That way you get the most out of each run and are not distracted by zombies other than the need to hurry. Taking a stimulant helps. Nothing prevents me from getting distracted. Nothing.

10. Arrows. Your using them way to much. Suggest you switch to your ax to finish, like you said you would do earlier in your video. I said I usually craft a club and switch to that but I wanted the slot more than a club so I was going to just use arrows. You're right though about using my stoneaxe to finish them off. I'll start doing that on Day 2

11. Glad that you finally ate and drank. I was wondering when you were going to look at those stats. I never eat and drink until I am close to 0%. That means that when playing with no HUD I wait until I hear my avatar whimpering and groaning and the stomach noises. I never check my food and water bars on my character screen. I only ate that chili and drank that water because I didn't want to carry them and knew I was down in percentage by that time of day. Otherwise I would have waiting until nightfall and/or the sound effects before eating and drinking.

12. TS 33:54 when making choices drop the ax and the bow. You can always recraft them and they were worn out anyway. Good idea. I guess I like to cling to those because of how useful they are but they are also very easily re-crafted so it makes sense.

13.Lose the grass. You can get grass anywhere. So unless your making stuff out of it. Stow it or drop it. Don't smoke it either. Good call.


Grassy Ass (Gracias)
:)

14. Try scraping stuff whenever you can to save space. Scraping also works like a temporary inventory slot. You can keep it in there till you get back. Things like crappy gun parts, nails and other junk. I know this. I scrapped the empty can of chili and the claimblock and filled all the slots with other things knowing they would be held in my queue.

Anyways I learned a lot from your video like making more stashes. I like to leave them next to things that are easy to find.

Thanks Roland.
Glad you liked it. What cannot be conveyed is how my mind was racing with tasks stacking up in queue in my mind that I needed to do which usually I could easily do simultaneously with a complete inventory. I sounded calm because I was narrating after the fact but while I was playing I was not calm at all. I felt pretty frantic because my mind was working faster than what I could accomplish and usually I feel it is the other way around when we can accomplish so much all at once.

Roland, your play style is interesting. I do like the screen without all the info, but I would go nuts without the eye/crosshair.
The backpack progression being talked about would be good for a mod, or as an option for vanilla. Personally, I like the set up as is.
I love aiming with the tip of the arrow instead of the cross-hairs. What I would like for that mode would be some sort of visual change to containers that they've been looted. What we get now is a text notification but a visual showing a change of status would be cool such as opened drawers and doors for cupboards and dressers and disturbed sticks for nests, etc.

For the record I like the way it is too. My point of experimenting was to show that what we have is already extravagant... ;)

The tool belt only concept here is only good for a few days, long enough to get a few perks to expand the backpack. The huge, huge, boring drawback is that there will a lot of back and forth to a central base. Until the sleeper zombies are fixed, where the whole building will re-spawn, in some rare cases spawn on top of each other, as soon as you re-enter after drawing a zombie out to kill it, scavenging anything but zombies would be, not just more difficult, but slooooww, dropping a chest every time you try to looting a house and running in and out 10-20 times to store stuff is not my idea of fun.
Truly not the type of progression I would want, hardcore players can have at it.

Also, Roland, you forgot about the 4 crafting slots, remember crafting is halted once there are no more inventory/toolbelt slots open, for the hardcore mode this should be changed to dropping the crafted items (and change the decay time to a lot longer).

If it were me with limited slot, you will be able to find me just by following the string of chests I would be leaving behind, like breadcrumbs. Good thing zombies are stupid.

Also if this were a thing, I would be arguing for a 10 slot toolbelt with the 2 extra slots just for ammo. Afterall, who doesnt know how to store a few arrows for hunting?
I'm interested to see what happens in the following days. I don't really need to continue to play this way to know that it will shortly become unfeasible...haha. That's why I am going to sell out and allow myself one backpack slot every time I go up a level and see how that feels for progression. I didn't forget about the crafting slots. In fact I used them to transport my claimblock and that used chili can back to the cabin by scrapping them and filling up the rest of the open slots before they completed. I knew they would stay safe and warm in the crafting queue. But I see you are saying to make them useless as extra slots by making completed items fall to the ground. That's too crazy even for me...lol.

As you guys can see, I hardly ever play optimally but being wasteful doesn't bug me in the least. I'm sure it makes those of you who hate waste and missed opportunities for efficiency crawl out of your skin while you watch me flounder along...haha. Deal with it.

 
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Hi Guys, I just wanted open up discussion of Alpha 17. Sorry we have been tight lipped about it, but I wanted to try something different this time where we talk about finished or work in progress features rather than stuff we simply planned. This leads to less frustration because usually once something is started we finish it, where its easy to plan a bunch of stuff and have it slip through the cracks, which is disappointing for all of us.
I will say we're ramping up the team, we've hired two new senior programmers, a concept artist, an environment artist, a designer, and we have about 5 new full time world builders. I'll begin showing stuff on youtube real soon. I have two keyboards hooked up at the same time now so I can annoy people if I want, or use the quiet keyboard if I want :)
Good news!

Can't wait to see what comes out of these videos.

Also -as a fellow mechanical keyboard user that annoys the living hell out of my girlfriend - annoy away! XD

Edit: Forgot "user" in there. lol

 
I don't use the cursor either W/B, I use the sway & bob of the Zed & Bow to let the Zed walk into the shot. Once you practice like Roland says using the tip you can get pretty good W/B.

I want a Horse like BF 1 so I can feel like a Samurai or Mongol shooting from the Horse.

 
What I would like for that mode would be some sort of visual change to containers that they've been looted. What we get now is a text notification but a visual showing a change of status would be cool such as opened drawers and doors for cupboards and dressers and disturbed sticks for nests, etc.
#VisualGate here we come. For a game mode that may be cool being able to see what you looted but i don't think it would be a good fit for the default game. I think looting is already too easy with text indicators. I personally love the way H1Z1 does it, you don't know if something has been searched UNLESS you actually search it. No text to let you know. This forces you to look into everything and also increases the danger for you being in a container because you have to look at every item instead of flying by and only looting the items that have respawned.

Id never suggest it for default though because I know it would be unacceptable to 97 percent of the players playing now. It CAN be done via modding though.

EDIT - Actually forget #visualGate because Im pretty sure no one wants this lol

 
These mods and the danger in it.

These mods you were using take away all the indicators off of the screen.

The reason that the indicators are put in the game are to simulate the player's natural feelings and self awareness in the game.

IRL (In real life) we know when we are thirsty or hungry or hurt. But how do you do that in a game? You can't. Hence the indicators.

Take those away and you limit your ability to since those things. It's like going death. What you can't hear can still hurt you.

What if you forgot to eat or drink and suddenly your health started dropping. You would look only to find out that you were starving. Suddenly your scrambling for food.

What if you were bleeding out would you know? Not till you dropped dead on the ground.

In the Air force pilots have what is known as the idiot panel. This panel alerts the pilot when it senses something is wrong and tells the pilot what's up.

They also have a computer voice, fondly called bitching Betty (yes really) that starts yelling at them if something is really wrong.

Both were added to the aircraft to keep the pilot from screwing up.

My point is that while these mods look cool. These can lead to problems if you are not carful and in this game you really don't have time to stop and think.

That's why the indicators are needed.

Edit: They also don't allow you to earn the skill points at startup.
People are too worried about food and drink. I'll have you know I have never starved to death nor have I died of dehydration while playing without the HUD. Have I lost a wellness point before? Yes, but so what? That is a cost I'm willing to pay to be able to play with the cinematic feel that I get with this mod.

Here are some other opinions of mine:

The game is a representation of a person walking around in the world but not in a cybernetic suit or in the cockpit of a fighter jet. Your examples are exactly why the game is so much more visceral to me without artificial heads up displays feeding me stats. I don't want a bitching betty helping me to play a game that is supposed to be an un-enhanced human being walking around in the world. I want to use my eyes and my ears.

The game has audible clues that I have found are more than adequate. It is impossible to miss the groaning and hunger pain noises when you get to 10% on food and also the heavy sighs when you get to 10% on water. There is an unmistakeable heartbeat audible clue when you are bleeding out. When your stamina is gone or going your avatar starts panting and puffing. It is simple to notice when that happens "too quickly" and then you know you might be infected. A quick check to the character screen will confirm whether it is true or not. When crickets start singing you know you have about 2 hours until zombies start running. (Not a big deal with the current version of stealth though...)

Wouldn't it be nice to have a compass floating in front of us at all times? No? I don't like it either and with it gone I can use landmarks in the world to find my way and the sun itself. If necessary I can open my map and check my bearings all of which feels more natural than having a compass always in view blocking the top of the screen.

People ignore and forget the signs of hunger in real life all the time when they are stressed and feel anxiety or when they are excited and concentrating carefully on something. Who hasn't finally stopped after hours of playing this very game only to realize that they are hungry but never felt it while they were playing? This style of play mirrors that pretty well.

 
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#VisualGate here we come. For a game mode that may be cool being able to see what you looted but i don't think it would be a good fit for the default game. I think looting is already too easy with text indicators. I personally love the way H1Z1 does it, you don't know if something has been searched UNLESS you actually search it. No text to let you know. This forces you to look into everything and also increases the danger for you being in a container because you have to look at every item instead of flying by and only looting the items that have respawned.
Id never suggest it for default though because I know it would be unacceptable to 97 percent of the players playing now. It CAN be done via modding though.

EDIT - Actually forget #visualGate because Im pretty sure no one wants this lol
Well, that is pretty much how I usually play since I use the invisible HUD and I do end up re-opening containers I've forgotten I've already opened which is annoying but I guess my own fault. I just know that if I opened a container it wouldn't be restored to its pristine unopened status...at least until my wife called me back into the kitchen to clean up my mess. :)

 
Strong arguments there Roland...

But I for one like a HUD with lots of info... It let's me concentrate less on managing those things...

Sure it hurts immersion somewhat, for the reasons you gave, but it's an acceptable compromise for me.

So cool that there are so many play styles possible... :)

 
Well, that is pretty much how I usually play since I use the invisible HUD and I do end up re-opening containers I've forgotten I've already opened which is annoying but I guess my own fault. I just know that if I opened a container it wouldn't be restored to its pristine unopened status...at least until my wife called me back into the kitchen to clean up my mess. :)
What if you were a neat scavenger?

And yes I think we can chalk THAT up to all the years of my wife yelling at me to close the cupboards when I'm done swiping the chips :)

The more I think about it the more I like the idea of no HUD. I'm going to have to try this. You make a very solid point. We aren't Robocop with visual indicators. The noises in game are our closest link to "feeling" and I like the idea of exploring that option.

 
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