PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[FileMachete]

Thanks for the vid MM, nicely done!

Definately less worried about the new system now that I understand it better.

Was concerned that if you couldn't afford to spec into say Pistols that something like: at player lvl 0 zombie X takes 3 headshots from low qual pistol. At player lvl 50 still un-spec'd into pistols, same zombie X (which has become tougher) using a lvl appropriate qual pistol would take 7 head shots to bring down.

And that doesn't seem to be the intent, which is -really- good news.

I'll admit I'm going to miss the 'use it and get better at it' part, since that was an incentive to try to regularly mix in using non-Main weapons, to sort of keep them up-to-par, so even if you never spec'd into them they didn't fall so far behind that they became effective useless.

Really looking forward to seeing the other trees

---

meganoth, MM just proved you right, heh which is great news!

And I'm sort of okay with the second half, "Master of none."

Though honestly, even if I were playing co-op I'd still prefer an end-game where Master of all was attainable. I know, of course, mods

Might be interesting if after reaching max vanilla lvl that a mod tacked on more lvls for more points but not 1 for 1, maybe 2 lvls for 1 point then 3 lvls for 1 point. That kind of thing, so you're still 'advancing' towards Master of all.

Appreciate the wikipedia link, the other languages bit is quite interesting; had no idea so many cultures appear to view generalists in poor regard. I'm more in agreement with the longer version;

" "Jack of all trades, master of none, but oftentimes better than master of one" which refers to a person who is not the best at all skills, but is better than someone who is only a master of one."

Good stuff

 

[madmole]

Joel, thank you very match for video.
Small question:

In the video said that heavy firearms will slow down the character. Will there be something like this with clubs, sledgehummer and crossbow? Crossbows, clubs and sledgehummers also have a big weight, especially sledgehammer. What do you say about it? Will these items also slow down the character?

They should, or just use more stamina when running. Its a careful balancing act with a lot of stuff slowing you down (encumbrance, broken legs, reloading, stun and aim, etc so we might just increase stamina use when running with heavier weapons instead.

 

[Crater Creator]

I know we've only seen 2 attribute trees, but when it comes to weapons, so far it strikes me that many of the perks affect the same weapon stats that will be affected by weapon mods. It's nice to synergize your perks and mods, but I'm more excited to see my character gain new capabilities than to see incremental improvements. Perks like, now you can throw your knife, now you can dual wield pistols, now you can move while aiming, now you can melee with your gun, etc.

To that end, I actually think I'd enjoy fewer levels per perk. If it were me, I'd probably eliminate level 1 and level 4 from everything, cutting it down to 3 levels per perk. I would find each perk unlock more exciting this way: a more noticeable difference, without removing any functionality or affecting the difference between a new player and a maxed out player.

I know I haven't played it yet, and I know we may not be seeing some differences because things aren't hooked up yet... but I still think this will hold true. I wouldn't like spending a point and not being able to tell the difference before and after, and it looks like that would occur when each 'pie' is cut into 5 pieces. For comparison, I think the rebooted Tomb Raider did perks well. Not too many perks made each one feel impactful.

Also,

• I think I know the answer to this, but some recipes (like cement, minibikes, and mechanical parts) will still be unavailable at the start and unlocked either by reading books or buying that skill, right?
  
• Zombies not going motionless while still alive looks good. Thumbs up.
  
• We can't see how much our stamina is draining while looking down a scope. Will that change? Ignore everything Roland has to say about this.
  

 

[Roland]

Ignore everything Roland has to say...

Wise words CC. Better advice never was given.

 

[Ouch Quit It]

Check out our new perception attribute and its perks!

One thing i noticed....in archery number 5.....it drops down to 10%...shouldnt it be 50% instead

 

[Laz Man]

Check out our new perception attribute and its perks!

Thanks MM! DUDE!!! I LOVE what you did with the zombie getup speed. It looks so much more fluid. The only downside now is no more running over to do a quick head smash for bonus damage. No matter though as I am sure you guys reincorporated that mechanic into some type of skill/perk.

 

[Laz Man]

Thanks for the vid MM, nicely done!
Definately less worried about the new system now that I understand it better.

Was concerned that if you couldn't afford to spec into say Pistols that something like: at player lvl 0 zombie X takes 3 headshots from low qual pistol. At player lvl 50 still un-spec'd into pistols, same zombie X (which has become tougher) using a lvl appropriate qual pistol would take 7 head shots to bring down.

And that doesn't seem to be the intent, which is -really- good news.

I'll admit I'm going to miss the 'use it and get better at it' part, since that was an incentive to try to regularly mix in using non-Main weapons, to sort of keep them up-to-par, so even if you never spec'd into them they didn't fall so far behind that they became effective useless.

Really looking forward to seeing the other trees

---

meganoth, MM just proved you right, heh which is great news!

And I'm sort of okay with the second half, "Master of none."

Though honestly, even if I were playing co-op I'd still prefer an end-game where Master of all was attainable. I know, of course, mods

Might be interesting if after reaching max vanilla lvl that a mod tacked on more lvls for more points but not 1 for 1, maybe 2 lvls for 1 point then 3 lvls for 1 point. That kind of thing, so you're still 'advancing' towards Master of all.

Appreciate the wikipedia link, the other languages bit is quite interesting; had no idea so many cultures appear to view generalists in poor regard. I'm more in agreement with the longer version;

" "Jack of all trades, master of none, but oftentimes better than master of one" which refers to a person who is not the best at all skills, but is better than someone who is only a master of one."

Good stuff

In A17, I believe treasure maps was a way to give players skill points still after hitting max cap. I support rare high level quest providing addtional skills points. But as you stated mods will beable to adjust this to your likely if vanilla is not to your taste. I suspect balancing the skill/perk trees won't be fully complete until gold release so I am not expectly perfection for A17.

 

[TSRViper]

...snip

No loot respawn has been an option for years; I'd be super surprised if they removed it. Why would they? That could actually muddy the waters, as they won't know if fan reaction to loot in A17 is down to the change to zombie loot, or the change to the options

I think what they meant was they relied on Zed loot for a portion of the ‘general’ crafting materials you need regularly. If zeds don’t drop a lot of loot and you have loot respawn off, you will need to explore further as the game progresses.

This is my interpretation of what was said. I don’t necessarily agree with this as I remember Gazz or Fataal mentioning that the zeds will still drop loot, this is just saving us time looting the empty ones.

Notwithstanding what Roland has said, the testers are using a pre-experimental build so zed loot drops (or balancing) may not be in the version they’re testing so their experience may be quite different to what we see when A17e drops.

 

[DaVegaNL]

I had a question regarding many of these attributes. In many perks one can see that the 1st level adds +x% of something, and the 2nd level adds +y% of the same thing. Are these bonuses cumulative? As in; does the 2nd level of a perk add y*(x*start value)%?

 

[TSRViper]

I had a question regarding many of these attributes. In many perks one can see that the 1st level adds +x% of something, and the 2nd level adds +y% of the same thing. Are these bonuses cumulative? As in; does the 2nd level of a perk add y*(x*start value)%?

I doubt they would stack, it would be too OP.

 

[Eihwaz]

@MM

will there be a video for every attribute?

I ask to plan my uploads : /

/btw I dont need it, I see how the system works and would like to be surprised on release day

 

[DaVegaNL]

Check out our new perception attribute and its perks!

Thanks for the video! I liked some of the ideas regarding the higher levels of some perks (crippling etc.). Would have liked to see them though.

Overall.. most perks shown increased damage and decreased reload speed. Not very.. new, I think.

 

[DaVegaNL]

I doubt they would stack, it would be too OP.

Yeah I guess you're right. Was just a question which poopped into mind.

 

[Gazz]

Also if you're only playing the game with two players total, there will be fewer zombies, so will that lack of players to fill those remaining specialization roles be okay or will the only way to succeed now and get to later-stage zombie hordes be to have players filling all the roles? DUM dum DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUM! lol, will be interesting to find out!l

Which remaining specialization roles?

Crafting?

If you don't like it, rely on loot or traders to get what you need.

Killing zombies? Use your crafting-oriented skills to build more traps, explosives, other improved ammunitions like AP rounds.

 

[DaVegaNL]

Correct me if I'm wrong; at 12:16 into the video MM says "you don't do extra headshot damage until you perk into this".

Does this mean headshots won't do extra damage by default? In other words; aiming for headshots is useless unless one has bought this perk?

 

[TSRViper]

Correct me if I'm wrong; at 12:16 into the video MM says "you don't do extra headshot damage until you perk into this".Does this mean headshots won't do extra damage by default? In other words; aiming for headshots is useless unless one has bought this perk?

I was wondering the same thing. Not an issue late game, but would make a material difference at the start with low tier weapons.

And no daVega, I’m not stalking you!

 

[toores]

I know we've only seen 2 attribute trees, but when it comes to weapons, so far it strikes me that many of the perks affect the same weapon stats that will be affected by weapon mods. It's nice to synergize your perks and mods, but I'm more excited to see my character gain new capabilities than to see incremental improvements. Perks like, now you can throw your knife, now you can dual wield pistols, now you can move while aiming, now you can melee with your gun, etc.

I've been thinking the same thing. Skills like "Stay Down" just increase the chance of some proc. I'd like to see perks that give me new abilities that I have to actively use. Like kick/block ability...

 

[Gazz]

Hope you remember to grab some much needed down time when all is said and done. Can't wait until all these "haters" have the words taken from their mouths when they get to see just how much work has been poured into this. I have NEVER been a fan of the perks system, but man Im not going to lie you proved me wrong. You actually have me excited to character build. I'm SO happy you guys went all in on these attributes.

We do expect to convert more of you guys. Hehe

A perk system and a (gasp!) simplified one where you get to buy a new and useful thing every level without having to math it up and plan ahead... that surely has to be the end of the world!

Of course that's gamey but it only has to work within a... well... game.

The old skill system was bland and boring. There was no way to do anything interesting with it.

So you got to grind out 3000 stone shovels. That is a soul-destroying task.

(my lord and master wishes to acquire those souls intact, TYVM)

I know that some enjoy this type of "gameplay". There are entire 7D mods built around that!

No idea if that still works but rest assured that there is still Cookie Clicker out there where every click gets you further away from the start of the game!

Is the "crafting game" too weak? We have (or can have) triggers for "stuff happening" when you place or repair a block.

Maybe you get a Building Zen increasing XP bonus if you place or repair 20 blocks in a row.

No, Toto. We're definitely not in A16 anymore.

So there is now less time to profit from knocked down zombies (bonus damage) as they get up immediately.That mechanic was helpful in melee, especially when fighting a larger group of them.

So what?

There is no law saying that this must be "it".

Maybe a knocked down zombie gets a concussion for 10 seconds and attacks more slowly, maybe a run speed reduction.

One of the highest priorities right now is getting all the perks and effects in, not to balance them.

(this is only competing with all the other highest priorities. )

 

[DaVegaNL]

I was wondering the same thing. Not an issue late game, but would make a material difference at the start with low tier weapons.
And no daVega, I’m not stalking you!

*Watches behind him*

*Sees something ducking behind a streetlight*

Hmm..

 

[Gazz]

I don't think Joel has shown Int/crafting, yet, and parts of that are still blurry.

Being the "crafting person" should be viable, though, if that's your jam. You can definitely craft higher tier items which have more mod slots to do fun stuff with.

A likely feature is also found schematics which are one-time use and add something special to an item, like a Mining Pick Schematic with the Crunch Time mod that increases your block damage the closer you get to horde night.

Sure, most everyone could use that schematic if they can craft basic iron tools (very cheap) so it's not useless...

but wouldn't you want someone with a high crafting skill to do that and get a higher tier item and have it on a steel pick instead of an iron one?