PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Gnomaana]

i/we tried to find ways to allow both, but if you read the Posts you see that finally many answers given was "I dont want YOU to have a safe Bunker"
Btw the Bedrock dwellers never said that they are against the Diggers, as long as they would not be implemented without a deaktivation toggle.

I'm not sure what you actually want at this point. A safe bunker and a defensible bunker are two entirely different things. I am all for the 2nd one but being able to build a bunker that is 100% safe without any active defense on the part of the player is silly in a survival game. If that is what you are asking for, I sort of understand why you have been told to just turn zombies off. It would accomplish that goal. A perfectly safe place to build.

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Over 300 Posts long several people here asked for Diggers that dig through rock and attack the outside of your bunker. That is (if the bunker is a realistic Bunker) impossible to defend.
But yes, i think the TFP members are whise enough to do that not.

Yeah, I saw those posts. I didn't even respond. There is zero chance of that type of attack being added. At least I hope so. Lol

 

[Royal Deluxe]

I sort of understand why you have been told to just turn zombies off. It would accomplish that goal. A perfectly safe place to build.

You mean really that a safe base is the same as Playing this game without Zombies ?

If yes, sorry then i consider your meaning in this context as worthless.

>90% of the danger in this game happens when you leave your base

(This is not thought as offense, its only my truth perceive)

 

[Guppycur]

You mean really that a safe base is the same as Playing this game without Zombies ?If yes, sorry then i consider your meaning in this context as worthless.

90% of the danger in this game happens when you leave your base

And that's how it should be; the game should make you want to leave your base, and not just because base busting zombies teleported in through time/space holes.

 

[Red Eagle LXIX]

You mean really that a safe base is the same as Playing this game without Zombies ?If yes, sorry then i consider your meaning in this context as worthless.

90% of the danger in this game happens when you leave your base

And that's how it should be; the game should make you want to leave your base, and not just because base busting zombies teleported in through time/space holes.

Same here. I should not want or need to leave my base because magic teleporting, flying, superman leaping, seeping through the ground, ghost zombies.
Unfortunately that is what some want because they find when they build a safe base, they're safe.

Even to the point of a complete lack of regard for immersion in the game world (as what is being requested in many cases does not fit the world {RWG or Hand Built Navezgane} and the POIs in that world which demonstrate the effects of the apocalypse and the zeds).

 

[graphite]

And that's how it should be; the game should make you want to leave your base, and not just because base busting zombies teleported in through time/space holes.

Which was why the reasonable debate was heading that you needed a special above ground zombie that dug vertical down and underground zombies spawned and converged on route to target the base which solved alot of design issues and added counters for the player.

RD has the problem that he will build a base that is so strong that he cant have access to the surrounding terrain and can only smash a hole or wait for the zombies to breach or use arrow slits and not be able to have his storage on the walls.

I suppose it a case of being shielded from a nuclear reactor and you have to break the shielding in an emergency to get to the reactor.

You could use a spaceship or submarine for this example also.

But i think you where correct in an earlier reply that if not UDZ thenit will be another threat just as if not more dangerous.

 

[Gnomaana]

You mean really that a safe base is the same as Playing this game without Zombies ?If yes, sorry then i consider your meaning in this context as worthless.

>90% of the danger in this game happens when you leave your base

(This is not thought as offense, its only my truth perceive)

Yeah, after I posted that I sort of thought it sounded like that and it isn't what I meant. If they add a danger underground, I hope they do make it either a setting or at least easily to mod out because I do want people to be able to play the game in whatever way that is the most fun for them. But if it comes down to the choice of no underground threat or one that can only be turned off with that switch, I would still choose to have an underground threat. I don't think it will come down to that choice though. Most of the underground threats I can think of would be relatively easy to mod out. Even if they add digging zombies it would almost certainly require nothing more than some xml edits to get rid of them.

 

[DaVegaNL]

So everyone is arguing with each other about a safe-zone issue (which should be adressed imho), and I'm just sitting here and wondering whether we will hear anything from a developer within the time-frame of a week.

 

[caatalyst]

So everyone is arguing with each other about a safe-zone issue (which should be adressed imho), and I'm just sitting here and wondering whether we will hear anything from a developer within the time-frame of a week.

Yeah man I'm baffled as to why people are coming up with elaborate digging / teleporting systems and SI systems. These are just going to just confuse the average player. the breadcrumb solution which the devs are working on will basically resolve the underground threat issue without having the teleport or even worry about SI beyond what we already have to.

 

[Darkfoxx117]

VIDEO

please

Edit: crap i forgot to add captain hot pants.

 

[Royal Deluxe]

In A14 i made a Community Village. Every player who wanted it got from me a Undestroyable basement (around 10x10 Blocks), the Wallblocks and door had 30 000+ Hp and themself as Block if they are Destroyed (means really undestroyable)

The result was not

that they died less

it was not

that they never left the base

The result was that they moved further away from the Base because there was Zero need to defend it (Z or Raiding Players)

and because of this they died a bit more often.

 

[Maharin]

And that's how it should be; the game should make you want to leave your base, and not just because base busting zombies teleported in through time/space holes.

Back to the carrot versus stick metaphor. If the right incentives are put in place people will leave their bases more. Resource distribution needs to be thought out better to promote the hunt for resources as one would expect to have in an apocalypse. As it stands now you almost never need to travel more than a kilometer or two in your first 100 days unless you get a real bad dice roll with your starting point or completely lack imagination. Resources are too easy to get and too generic, in my opinion.

 

[graphite]

I am not requesting UDZ but do understand the difficulty win/lose scales need constant tipping.

The idea was proposed and my personal opinion was make all the counters known and see if there was a solid reason to cull it.

Make all the counters known decreases the difficulty possibly pushing it into imppossible to balance.

So debating all the counters and trying to find solid reasons a component can not be used decreases it's chance to be implemented.

Boogey men strawmen and just i dont want it wont make it go away.

It is up to the developers to decide if they can still use it with counters that are known and to workaround solid reasons it cannot be used.

I am also not against options for underground threats i have talked about the loot issue which isnt a problem and also about a component needs to be fully in before making a option so expecting them straight away to me is unreasonable.

I still find it hard to believe what behavior i have commited that is illogical to the discussion about underground threats but nevermind.

Also the breadcrumb system as i understand it will just funnel zombies into an easy trap which some people have claimed is there problem with horde night.

If you have one exit/entrance and the player pathing leads the zombies down though it then deathstar traps will be able to cope at ease.

I think it is good from a difficulty aspect of players need to build up resources to defend that path but it will quickly be circumvented with a countermeasure tactic.

 

[Aurelius]

Over 300 Posts long several people here asked for Diggers that dig through rock and attack the outside of your bunker. That is (if the bunker is a realistic Bunker) impossible to defend.

But it's not impossible to defend. Go outside your base and start busting skulls.

Add passive defenses at the surface level, to protect the perimeter so they can't even get into range and start digging.

-A

 

[Lonestarcanuck]

I like to build a base that is able to stand up to a horde but on Zombie night I like to get out there with my beer/alcohol and club/Shotgun and exploding bolts and engage the zombies. I try and get them to follow me, turn and fire some exploding bolts into them to thin them out, I than run into them with shotgun or club.

I also use a lot of bandages doing this. you do need to invest some points into medicine and armor in order to reduce the chance of death. at level 50 with 145HP I can get taken down to 40HP easily with all the cops and Radiated/ferals.

PS: Shotgun with 3/5 and slugs rocks. on a Diff 4 server with 560 Shotgun+ slugs I am doing 198.12 damage.

 

[Guppycur]

Which was why the reasonable debate was heading that you needed a special above ground zombie that dug vertical down and underground zombies spawned and converged on route to target the base which solved alot of design issues and added counters for the player.
RD has the problem that he will build a base that is so strong that he cant have access to the surrounding terrain and can only smash a hole or wait for the zombies to breach or use arrow slits and not be able to have his storage on the walls.

I suppose it a case of being shielded from a nuclear reactor and you have to break the shielding in an emergency to get to the reactor.

You could use a spaceship or submarine for this example also.

But i think you where correct in an earlier reply that if not UDZ thenit will be another threat just as if not more dangerous.

Shouldn't you be allowed to "win"? What's wrong with winning?

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Back to the carrot versus stick metaphor. If the right incentives are put in place people will leave their bases more. Resource distribution needs to be thought out better to promote the hunt for resources as one would expect to have in an apocalypse. As it stands now you almost never need to travel more than a kilometer or two in your first 100 days unless you get a real bad dice roll with your starting point or completely lack imagination. Resources are too easy to get and too generic, in my opinion.

To this point, at what day number SHOULD the pimps say "okay, enough is enough, that's all we're going to throw at you"?

...meaning, should they make an indeterminable amount of indefinite zombie types that can penetrate a day 100 base? Day 500? Day 1000? Where does the madness stop?

 

[Aurelius]

Back to the carrot versus stick metaphor. If the right incentives are put in place people will leave their bases more. Resource distribution needs to be thought out better to promote the hunt for resources as one would expect to have in an apocalypse. As it stands now you almost never need to travel more than a kilometer or two in your first 100 days unless you get a real bad dice roll with your starting point or completely lack imagination. Resources are too easy to get and too generic, in my opinion.

I don't even care if someone parks their toon for 500 days below ground without coming up once. The problem isn't people surfacing; the problem is how inexpensive it is to set up a self sufficient colony underground.

People should be able to do it - just not as easily and cheaply as now.

For reference, Joel tossed out that someone can stay at a Trader for 10k dukes a night. You could get a self sufficient base started, with the same level of safety, for probably less than that.

-A

 

[Red Eagle LXIX]

To this point, at what day number SHOULD the pimps say "okay, enough is enough, that's all we're going to throw at you"?
...meaning, should they make an indeterminable amount of indefinite zombie types that can penetrate a day 100 base? Day 500? Day 1000? Where does the madness stop?

Apparently never, ever adapting BORG Zeds!

 

[Royal Deluxe]

I like to build a base that is able to stand up to a horde but on Zombie night I like to get out there with my beer/alcohol and club/Shotgun and exploding bolts and engage the zombies. I try and get them to follow me, turn and fire some exploding bolts into them to thin them out, I than run into them with shotgun or club.
I also use a lot of bandages doing this. you do need to invest some points into medicine and armor in order to reduce the chance of death. at level 50 with 145HP I can get taken down to 40HP easily with all the cops and Radiated/ferals.

PS: Shotgun with 3/5 and slugs rocks. on a Diff 4 server with 560 Shotgun+ slugs I am doing 198.12 damage.

Exact the oposite how i like it.

As i said, i like to play the game as if it is real. If there is a "Hordenight" the zombies are much more Dangerous as normally, i would never leave my Bunker. And in real such a Bunker would be 100% safe for such a night.

This means not that i am not able to build a fortress and defend it or maybe survive even without such a base (never tried since i play Death is Death)

The point is simple, i (and some others) dont enjoy the game your way.

 

[Ouch Quit It]

Shouldn't you be allowed to "win"? What's wrong with winning?
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To this point, at what day number SHOULD the pimps say "okay, enough is enough, that's all we're going to throw at you"?

...meaning, should they make an indeterminable amount of indefinite zombie types that can penetrate a day 100 base? Day 500? Day 1000? Where does the madness stop?

uh oh...Guppys back!! I mean hooray!! Guppys back!!

 

[Red Eagle LXIX]

All said and done, no matter what TFP decide and do, I have hope that it will be able to modded in one way or another to reach a gametype that will be enjoyable for each.