PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Guest]

has anything been done to make hordes feel less of an ammo waste? How sure is the "Reward" at the end, even if not all zombies drop loot anymore.

From my point of view, they are just entities wanting to kill you and you are trying to stay alive, so they should be a "waste of ammo" as you are trying to protect yourself and your assets from destruction. The zombies are not there to bring you stuff (meal on wheel as Joel put it) only to destroy you.

 

[The Batman]

From my point of view, they are just entities wanting to kill you and you are trying to stay alive, so they should be a "waste of ammo" as you are trying to protect yourself and your assets from destruction. The zombies are not there to bring you stuff (meal on wheel as Joel put it) only to destroy you.

Tru, but seeing how much damage they do to a base. How much time it takes to repair etc. etc. I would like some benefit to fight them, instead of sitting in a hole somewhere watching netflix. There's no feeling of achievement, beside still being alive. Which is why so many players log off during hordes or sit in a hole.

 

[Kalex]

A17-E RC -> Stream Event -> A17-E
*Scratches his head*

So the public get the Release Candidate, then the streamers showcase the release, then A17-E releases?

No, the public does not get the release candidate. that's just the version lock that the streamers will get.

 

[toores]

I've always thought that the sleeper respawn timer should just be the loot respawn timer. That way when the loot comes back so do the guards. Seems like it would solve the problem of zombies spawning in inhabited POI's because the loot respawn timer starts over whenever a player is in the vicinity. The only way sleepers would respawn in the POI is if all players left the chunk for the duration of the loot timer.
It would also give people more incentive to stealth loot a house as a trick on fellow server occupants so that when someone else comes by and kills all the zombies...the joke's on them.

In the video, though, the loot was not yet collected and the zombies respawned when MM stepped just 10m from the house. There should be some mechanic that ensures after spawning that the same zombies in the same spots remain and don't teleport or multiply even when you walk to the naighbouring house and back.

EDIT: I guess it's kind of what you were saying... (after reading once more)

- - - Updated - - -

Holy Underoos!...I feel a change in avatar theme coming on...

Do they need to be Batman themed? There might not be enough...

 

[Crater Creator]

The only time people make a ruckus is when difficulty and challenges are added. No one ever complains or mass posts when something is made simpler or easier. Where is the outrage over gun part removal, or item quality changes, or even that you can make a vehicle in a workbench? You won't see it because it simplifies a system. There should be nothing wrong with adding a challenge to a game and devs should not shy away from doing so when it fits their vision for what they want the game to be.

Er, that may be true at times, but those are poor examples since people have been complaining about losing gun parts and simplified item quality. Outrage, it seems, is never in short supply.

 

[Guest]

Tru, but seeing how much damage they do to a base. How much time it takes to repair etc. etc. I would like some benefit to fight them, instead of sitting in a hole somewhere watching netflix. There's no feeling of achievement, beside still being alive. Which is why so many players log off during hordes or sit in a hole.

I agree on damage, but in my own experience some layers of spikes, a few electric traps + blade traps keeps them off the walls most of the time. I do have to fix using electronics, steel and mechanical parts, which don't drop of zeds anyway. Staying in a hole used to be an option, in A17 it seems they can dig vertically though. Nothing to be done about the players logging off but the changes do make the singleplayer and coop with a few friends more complex and entertaining (for me at least)

 

[Crater Creator]

I could be wrong here but I believe it was animal gore blocks that raised the heatmap and not zombie gore blocks. Someone with a PhD in TFP XMLs can correct if I’m TOOMA.

TFPXMLPhD here. You're correct. In Alpha 16.4's blocks.xml, GoreBlock1Prefab has no entry for HeatMapStrength, while animalGore does.

 

[toores]

But, those zombies have to be respawned. They don't hang around while you leave and wander around for 10 minutes. Large POIs have many sleeper volumes, usually next to each other and dozens of zombies. If you come back in another direction, it may not be able to respawn in the same spots without being seen.

Then spawn the same zombies in the same spots. And don't spawn the ones that caould not be there...

 

[The Batman]

I agree on damage,snip

When you see 7+ feral radiated cops coming, + others with even higher damage or hp. No static defense will hold them ^^

Mostly because of cops bugging out and exploding on random. Killing every defense in their range. If the cops could be neutralised or explosion damage reduced, then yes. It's instantly a lot more viable.

 

[Jimmy_James]

I've always thought that the sleeper respawn timer should just be the loot respawn timer. That way when the loot comes back so do the guards. Seems like it would solve the problem of zombies spawning in inhabited POI's because the loot respawn timer starts over whenever a player is in the vicinity. The only way sleepers would respawn in the POI is if all players left the chunk for the duration of the loot timer.
It would also give people more incentive to stealth loot a house as a trick on fellow server occupants so that when someone else comes by and kills all the zombies...the joke's on them.

If that is the way when it’s working correctly iam more than happy and it would make sense.

(My loot respawn is always 999)

 

[Crater Creator]

Holy Underoos!...I feel a change in avatar theme coming on...

Later, when everyone has an underwear-themed avatar and the hype train has left the station:

RELEASE THE KRA oh, no. Oh, no. What are you doing?

PUT THOSE BACK ON!

 

[Xrt]

No, the public does not get the release candidate. that's just the version lock that the streamers will get.

Aah! That makes sense

Thank you

 

[Guest]

Has anything been done in A17 on a technical level regarding Occlusion? IIRC frustum culling is implemented by default under Unity but what about occlusion culling used to not render objects in the line of sight but obstructed.

For example the objects inside POIs surrounded by walls/boarded windows so the insides are not seen from any angle.

 

[Red Eagle LXIX]

It is a bug if a killed zombie did not reduce the sleeper volume count. Seeing them in different spots after despawn/respawn is how it works right now.

Here is one issue with that system.

Why can I not just attract the zombies and lead them out of the house?

I know the explanation was to prevent Pied Piper clearing of POIs.

However, previously the justification of forcing the kill to be in the sleeper volume was rationalized by at least you get loot to offset the risk and expense of resources in doing such.

Now we still can't do as any sane person would do and lead the zombies away because they won't count as kills to the volume, but we also don't gain the reward.

Just another thought on the change on loot factors and how it impacts Sleep Volume balance issues.

Sleep Volumes also tied to Gamestage where more keep spawning once you've reached a higher Gamestage was also rationalized by at least one gets loot. So again, another area of the Sleep mechanic that should be revisited. This was especially bad at high Gamestages in mid-size and larger POIs. It was this that usually made the issue of "I cleared the room, walked out and back in and it was full again" even worse.

I'd have to hope POIs are going be rather loot heavy in their containers to make them worthwhile. Maybe some kind of Loot Volume system that works similar to the Sleeper System and uses Gamestage to keep it all balanced out. That of a significant decrease in the sleeper volume spawn numbers and Gamestage influence.

Note of course this all goes based on the A16 Gamestage system which means some or all may be inapplicable already.

Just babbling based on what I've experienced in A16 and seen of A17 in MM's video there. Obviously you all have probably thought these things through already. Heck, anytime I think of something someone has already thought it, or done better and solved the issue.

 

[akram22]

NO ,GOD NO ,OH PLEASE NO, iam not going to talk (write) in my underwear sorry , we almost achieved 2000 and the hype train is about to leave. next alpha is going to be mmmmmm, Madmolic theme avatar , just anything with huge beard . lol

but not the underwear theme

 

[Jimmy_James]

As coming from a QA field myself, i can't help but appreciate all the work being put in resolving various bugs by the devs.

Same here. QA reward was always to reconstruct a bug, (do all the writing stuff) and see that bastard on the fixed bug list.

 

[Citalos]

Sorry if I am missing something obvious, but where do you find the spider meme?

 

[Jimmy_James]

Sorry if I am missing something obvious, but where do you find the spider meme?

Page 1890.

 

[WarWren]

Loving A17 changes

Loving all the changes that are coming with Alpha 17.

In regard to the many complaints about no more zombie looting I have to agree with prior comments that zombies are simply an obstacle to our scavenging, as they are in The Walking Dead. The dead are not a source of survival they are the threat. We also know, that the developers are smart enough to balance the issue of getting bones and flesh. In regard to the notion that taking away loot will discourage us from fighting horde night I disagree. Why and how people deal with horde night is a matter of choice. I certainly don't rely on loot from horde night but rather how well I designed my base. I don't want an endless cycle of horde night, loot, sell etc. The world provides many more immersive ways to survive. That was just one game style. Rather, beating horde night gives me the satisfaction of laughing in the face of adversity as is every day I stay alive. My lavish home, farm and stockpile of weapons is a sign of my success. Avoid horde night if you like, that's just another way to beat it and another game style. The theory that horde night would provide the means to survive said horde night is a cycle that takes away from the game. Surviving apocalypse shouldn't be about selling horde night goodies. It should be about scavenging, farming, hunting and scrapping with the Z's. The only negative is that we wont see dead bodies or simulate the disposal of them. We will just have to imagine it.

I love the new combat idea too! I'd rather have one real fight than down 50 zombies with ease. With this added challenge our weapons, armor, perks and upgrades will be much more meaningful also. Fighting hordes of zombies was meant for Automatic weapons, not a single club. The new combat brings a lot of balance to the game.

Love the arrow retrieval idea and even the fact that not all are retrievable, arrows do break. I can image fighting a zombie to the last arrow and having to pull it out while hes still alive to get a kill.

Yep, A17 will be a blast no doubt. Thanks Joel and the rest who are doing your best to make the game real. Please keep making it a real survival game. The rest can have their loot. Roland, I don't envy your job.

 

[Sirre]

Don't really like the removal of backwards running. All it basically does is that if you bump into more than 2 dogs before you have shotgun/automatic weapons you will die. Before it was an actual skill to be able to kite backwards while shooting arrows with your crappy bow to save your skin.

Now a wolf or a couple of dogs sniff you out and attack there is no way to keep them out of range so you take your club try to swing at them get stunned and die no amount of skill will save you. When I play survival I always try to do a playthrough without dying and while in earlier alphas you could die to a silly bug "I once drowned on dry ground" or something else like that. But at least the game gave you a chance to survive all encounters using superior gaming skills. I fully understand it is not realistic to run backwards and shoot arrows while doing so but the feeling when you succesfully kite half a dozen doggies and manage to kill them with a crappy bow is extremely satisfying, with this new system if you hear dogs barking you might as well just lift your hands in the air and prepare to respawn.