PC Destroying the game

[Ttocs]

For example, it is extremely possible that if you were to replace the current zombie AI with the A16 AI the game would be vastly inferior because zombies would just bash blocks (or spin in place) in POIs rather than pathing towards you.

Inferior in terms of AI yes but the point was for me it felt more organic and fun back then which can be an argument that its superior. A split in opinion that doesn't seem too uncommon. I honestly don't mind them just bashing blocks but agree the spinning zombies were.... undesirable. 

 

[Kosmic Kerman]

Inferior in terms of AI yes but the point was for me it felt more organic and fun back then which can be an argument that its superior. A split in opinion that doesn't seem too uncommon. I honestly don't mind them just bashing blocks but agree the spinning zombies were.... undesirable. 

My post was not about people's subjective opinions on zombie pathing for horde nights but about how the A16 zombie pathing might work in the game as it currently exists. Prior to A16, you generally didn't find zombies in POIs. A16 introduced sleepers and A17 introduced quests and new zombie pathing/AI. Personally, I don't think the previous AI was a good fit for POI quests. Presumably the Devs felt the same way which is likely one of the reasons the zombie pathing was changed in A17 when quests were added.  And while the pathfinding has been refined since then,, zombies still do incredibly dumb stuff around stairs and railings. This is the context for my post.  While some people may prefer A16's zombie pathing for horde nights, I think most of them would find it miserable for POI quests. 

This leads to the obvious question of whether it would possible to have one type of AI/pathing for horde nights and one type of pathing for POIs.  Maybe this is possible at a technical level but I have no idea what the overhead of this decision would be.  Would it further degrade performance? Do the Devs have enough staff to maintain two different AI codebases? Would it be too off-putting that zombies behave one way in POIs and a different way on Horde Night? What would happen if a player entered a POI on Horde Night and the game had to deal with pathing for both Horde Night zombies and POI sleeper zombies?  

My bottom line is that I think some people are nostalgic for the way things used to be without fully thinking through the consequences and ramifications of reverting current systems to old systems.  I think some people are just picking and choosing the things they liked in old alphas without realizing that those things could negatively impact aspects of other parts of the game they are mostly happy with.

 

[Javabean867]

Oh and forgot the smell mechanic when you carried meat on you, I really liked it and it was a nice risk/reward. Never did get why it wasn't kept in later versions.

16.4 did not have the smell mechanic.  i think that was in a 15 and prior versions.

 

[Ttocs]

My post was not about people's subjective opinions on zombie pathing for horde nights

Neither was mine. It was global organic feeling

 some people are nostalgic for the way things used to be without fully thinking through the consequences and ramifications of reverting current systems to old systems. 

Hmm didn't mention this either, I would never expect a crossbred version, if I want to play A16.4 AI I will go back to it and play, not expect it to be implemented into current version where there would obviously be some issues. My take on this thread was to reminisce on things we liked more from that version though I may have floated away from OPs initial take.

This leads to the obvious question of whether it would possible to have one type of AI/pathing for horde nights and one type of pathing for POIs. 

I have no idea but probably very unlikely.

 

[4sheetzngeegles]

The colors are just to separate thoughts.
A few possible answers for tests i've done over time.

What would happen if a player entered a POI on Horde Night and the game had to deal with pathing for both Horde Night zombies and POI sleeper zombies?

Until close to the end of the horde night the POI volumes are suppressed. I got curious and ran through some of the bigger pois different times.
A bike ride away from my base being attacked, and went through the pois. Nothing spawned till near dawn. I hope this has changed.

The above answer is yes, in the POIs they are labeled as Sleepers, they just need a physical name change and a reorder of task and target  when in a sleeper
volume, On horde night POI sleepers would retain name. They are just clones, The main thing that would happen is a larger entityclasses.xml. The horde
is basically goverened by IsHordeNight and feral sense.

For example, it is extremely possible that if you were to replace the current zombie AI with the A16 AI the game would be vastly inferior because zombies
would just bash blocks (or spin in place) in POIs rather than pathing towards you.

It actually might work more differently now, there are now supporting mechanics that didn't exist then. It still does the same thing only not as apparent.

"Present mechanic" Instead of spin when unreachable, destroyblock, they spun because there was no state to compensate for elevated or unreachable, so it looped.
The Added State
RangedAttackTarget itemType=1;cooldown=4;duration=3;minRange=1;maxRange=6;unreachableRange=18|  A simple if\then statement that adjusted their reactions.
Also
<property name="LookAtAngle" value="60"/> before the vision was 2d left and right only, and there was nothing in the state machine for up. So MM had them
look up, similar to 7.11. or the turrets. You never know there is a problem until it happens.

A17 incorporated the turret view or angular lerp, I called it the "no where to hide alpha". But players didn't like the zombies that could create stairs
to reach upper levels.

This leads to the obvious question of whether it would possible to have one type of AI/pathing for horde nights and one type of pathing for POIs.

Yup, you can have as many iterations of responses as you are willing to type for. The finite number of models, mean they will look the same, but act
differently or unexpectedly. But these states or animated behavior have to be added first. But with 12 existing elements, you could cover a huge array of
if\then situations. The compound problem is humans, unpredictability, and choice.

I wish I could import the coding between aphas to make one culmination mod. It would be interesting. Of course the older graphics were more akin to cel shading,
But then so is the new Blood Moons. So what goes around comes around, or maybe they are going to use excerpts from multiple iterations or alphas .
Im curious to see.

 

[Andrew Eddie]

I dispute the original claim of the first post, that the game is destroyed. I am really enjoying 1.x overall. But I think a few things are not ideal.

I like the magazine system, but I don't like that you can "game it" by putting points into skills. Forgetting exila should also come as some sort of "cost".

I still don't like the arrangement of the skills tree. I feel like I want to be able to level my "Weapons Skill" and then within that I need to decide how to divide points between melee or ranged. My "Armour Skill" should create a tension between the type of armour I'm wearing and stealthiness. My "Survival Skill" should look at creating tension between looting and cooking, etc.

My least favourite thing in 1.x is that the trader quests are just not worth doing. I don't do them anymore and I don't not at all feel like I am missing out on anything. I do, however, like the legendary parts feature for T6 items. I think the traders need to have more items that simply can't be found in the wild or crafted to make them more relevant.

My 2c

 

[BFT2020]

I like the magazine system, but I don't like that you can "game it" by putting points into skills. Forgetting exila should also come as some sort of "cost".

I am fine with the boost, but not the amount of boost.  I am trying a 1-5 boost instead of 2-10 boost that the vanilla game has.  So I am getting more crafting magazines  in the ones I perk into, but the difference is not as severe to the ones I am not perked into at the moment.

I also took the crafting magazines a bit further - I removed all the schematics and recipe unlocks via perk books and rolled all of those into crafting magazines - either into existing crafting trees or creating a new crafting magazine tree.