PC Decline in 7 Days Twitch Streamers

Probably shouldn't be playing sandbox survival games then? I mean the entire point of such games is you get a random start, find random things and have to make the best with what you have, while going out to find those precious things you don't have. Some of which you may never find, forcing you to adapt.
I know and I'd like to see more of that but... and that's a big but...

the majority of players does not play 100 or 300 hour games and they still expect to see a reasonable percentage of the game.

And here I mean the actual majority, not the forum majority who agrees with the poster on a surprising number of conflicting issues.

 
I know and I'd like to see more of that but... and that's a big but...the majority of players does not play 100 or 300 hour games and they still expect to see a reasonable percentage of the game.

And here I mean the actual majority, not the forum majority who agrees with the poster on a surprising number of conflicting issues.
The majority (to which I also belong) definitely can't or won't play much indeed - no statistics are even needed. Most people have families, mountains of obligations that come with families and have to work (unfortunately).

But there can be a silver lining and not everyone in this majority enjoys instant gratification - personally I am a fan of slower progression (one of the things I liked in A17) - but in this case it's more about the range at which you get something - not strictly how soon you will get it. That random range creates more diverse playthroughs.

 
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Well you are not everyone either. And I would venture to say your opinions on the 2 systems are the polar opposite of the vast majority of other people. Most people, myself included, feel A16's system is the one that promoted organic gameplay; doing what you needed to do on a daily basis without thinking much about efficient grinding of some stat or other. It was A17 that introduced the over-arching feeling of the constant need to grind XP by the most efficient way possible just to get to level X where Y will unlock.
I've always been tought that once someone starts talking about the 'silent majority', of which they claim they are a part of, they only use such a mechanism to try to make their argumentation seem to be more important.

So.. I don't think you should use the 'silent majority'.

 
I've always been tought that once someone starts talking about the 'silent majority', of which they claim they are a part of, they only use such a mechanism to try to make their argumentation seem to be more important.
So.. I don't think you should use the 'silent majority'.

The majority (to which I also belong) definitely can't or won't play much indeed - no statistics are even needed.
fry.gif


 
Btw Kat, I'm nearly 50 myself and ALSO suck at this game, and in my current game there are things I need but can't yet find to progress down a path I REALLY want to proceed down... But I'm making do, because I built in choices.

Choices are what drives more playthroughs...

Anyway, besides more railing against levelled (loot, threats, perks), I've said my piece, so peace!

 
RNG is Survival, you basically adapt or die!

Thats why i modded magazines to give permanent perk point and 0 skill points when leveling.

OMG the adaptation is real! :)

 
Probably shouldn't be playing sandbox survival games then? I mean the entire point of such games is you get a random start, find random things and have to make the best with what you have, while going out to find those precious things you don't have. Some of which you may never find, forcing you to adapt.
Now while I can agree with the idea that players should never lack absolute KEY things like the Forge and Tool and Die set, but most other things that you may think you need are actually a luxury, and their lack is what makes the game interesting. My most memorable runs of this game (before A17 made no run memorable because they are all the same) are those were I lacked something. The prime example was the one where I never found the Shotgun book, and had to make do with other guns.

This is the one thing I loathe the most about A17. Why would you want this when it just makes every run the same? Where's the replayability? I wonder how many runs you have actually started in A17? I ask because this problem - having everything at the same level every time thus rendering the game bland - is one that will not manifest itself to most players until they have started several new runs in A17, and experienced for themselves how predictable and formulaic the game has become. I do not think enough people have restarted enough times to actually see how BAD this is for the game's long-term health.

This is a feature added for casual players, no doubt. Give them everything the game has to offer on a plate with little effort required to get it, and they will call it freedom.
Again I specified the things I feel are necessities. Workstations and making forged iron/steel/concrete. Those are not necessities week one. But eventually they become, to me, necessities. Other people may not agree that you should be able to count on finding those particular items/skills every playthrough at an appropriate gamestage.

I enjoy having a random start, finding random items and making the best of it. I don't care if I am never able to craft a crossbow or repair a shotgun. Leaving armor up to rng... fine. I enjoy randomness when it comes to luxuries and things with reasonably equivalent alternatives.

In a17, I have started probably 12-15 games. I don't play them exactly the same. I have multiple choices that I make based on what I need. I don't find knowing that I can definitely eventually make my own concrete to be boring. I find it reassuring. I could care less about whether/when I can craft guns, different types of armor, electrical items... most things in the game. Rng is fine for almost everything.

If I can never craft med kits, I will save the ones I find/buy for truly desperate situations and rely on first aid bandages. If I can't craft those, I'll rely on aspirin/drinks/regular bandages. There are reasonably equivalent alternatives to regaining health.

In previous alphas, if I didn't find a crossbow book, I used a regular bow or a compound bow. There were reasonably equivalent alternatives to be able to make stealth kills. The gun/guns I used most wouldn't be the one I never found the schematic for. I would use whichever one/ones I did find.

I could care less that I can dump points into intellect and craft almost everything. I don't do that. If I find an iron pickaxe, fire axe, and a wrench early (which so far I almost always have) I feel no need to rush being able to craft tools. I have crafted guns above q2 in 2 playthroughs. Others I have found or bought a couple q5-6 guns and made do with using those most of the time. I rely on bought/found armor. If I am close to both a trader and a city, I don't bother with vehicles above the minibike.

While you say I probably shouldn't be playing survival games, I greatly enjoy playing this one this alpha. I also enjoyed every alpha before this one that I have played, although this one is my favorite. I have also enjoyed playing rust and ark. So why should I stop playing them, when I enjoy them as they are?

 
It always seemed to me that a large portion of 7 Days fans had played "survival" games like Ark and Rust only to have found them wanting. This is where 7 Days shines. Giving those players an actual survival game based on adapting to your situation. It would then seem to me that if players from those other games are now finding A17 to be the best alpha yet then the rest of us might be in trouble here.

Having said that, I loaded up 17.2 last night and I'm ready for a fresh run this morning with my fresh cup of coffee. So I'll see for myself soon enough. No matter what though I won't be comparing the game to A16 because I didn't care that much for it as A15 was my favorite so far.

To the point of the thread...I can still find a new video whenever I'm interested so it still seems about the same to me. Maybe it's not such a big deal to me because earlier alphas didn't have half as many creators as the past couple have had so even if it was less than A16 it's still more than before that.

Lastly...Guppy is right. Leave it at that and start to listen. The guy knows his stuff. Although, I have seen him play and he does in fact SUCK so we also know he's humble and tells the truth even at the risk of harm to his self image.

Peace

 
Some like the certainty of things happening in a specific order controlled by the game, some (dare I say most? Why yes, yes I do) prefer player controlled uncertainty.
...have fun with that phrase.
I'm in the group that wants no LBD but more randomness and even random gates. Lots more. The beaker is good, we need more of that.

I feel like in A17 I'm always keeping eye on the XP bar so I could reach the next level so I could get that required perk.
The xp bar has to go and the xp popups as well. I say so and I'm speaking for the vast majority of people like Ghostlight does :cocksure:

 
Things were changed so you could't grind XP like A15 and A16 like medicine and armor and wellness. The grind was all different activities. It was replaced with 1 grind activity. Popping XP pinatas. It's still a grind. Just a different kind. Any game has alternate methods of grinding up XP which are often tedious and unappealing but theres always some nerd thats gunna do it and grind it out and they'll get a huge feeling of accomplishment from it and love it. Everyone else will call them a stupid nerd.

These aspects of the game aren't really damaging to the gameplay as long it isn't easy to grind exp like this and i always found it to be endearing quirks of the game and I liked it. I felt it gave freedom to people to play the game they wanted and didn't harm anything fundamental about the game. It gave people that loved to grind, something to do. Just my 2 cents

 
I'm in the group that wants no LBD but more randomness and even random gates. Lots more. The beaker is good, we need more of that.


The xp bar has to go and the xp popups as well. I say so and I'm speaking for the vast majority of people like Ghostlight does :cocksure:
100% agree, the xp bar is hideous and the XP pop up text too. Very arcade ish. We want gritty realistic, immersion.

FFS, who the hell did TFP hire that is pushing all these arcade ideas that came out with a17.

 
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FFS, who the hell did TFP hire that is pushing all these arcade ideas that came out with a17.
buddy from rust. (he envies 7btd:gossip: )

 
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I've always been tought that once someone starts talking about the 'silent majority', of which they claim they are a part of, they only use such a mechanism to try to make their argumentation seem to be more important.
So.. I don't think you should use the 'silent majority'.
His post claimed A16 was a grind-fest where the player went out and did things just the grind the related perk and not because they needed to do that actual thing. He also stated A17 fixed this by making gameplay more organic and making the payer not think about XP any more and just play the game normally.

This is the first time EVER I have heard the opinion be that way round. A17 being the XP grind-fest is not silent majority stuff, it is common knowledge.

 
While you say I probably shouldn't be playing survival games, I greatly enjoy playing this one this alpha. I also enjoyed every alpha before this one that I have played, although this one is my favorite. I have also enjoyed playing rust and ark. So why should I stop playing them, when I enjoy them as they are?
Because you stated you HATED not finding items that you consider necessary, which to me is the very definition of survival games. The things that matter most are the things you do not have, and may never have. That's what give such games their replayability.

- - - Updated - - -

The xp bar has to go and the xp popups as well. I say so and I'm speaking for the vast majority of people like Ghostlight does :cocksure:
You need those pop-ups as this is the only way to tell if an enemy is actually dead (and not just stunned with Shotgun Messiah perk - with that perk they can lie there for 5+ seconds looking dead before they suddenly get up and attack the back line).

 
His post claimed A16 was a grind-fest where the player went out and did things just the grind the related perk and not because they needed to do that actual thing. He also stated A17 fixed this by making gameplay more organic and making the payer not think about XP any more and just play the game normally.
This is the first time EVER I have heard the opinion be that way round. A17 being the XP grind-fest is not silent majority stuff, it is common knowledge.
Yeah........ Based on? Your opinion? Some people in this thread? Most people on this forum? Most actual players.

Always be careful with interchanging facts and opinions.

If you want a second time you hear it (even though I've stated it many times already); I think A16 was an easy grind-fest, with this whole LBD-system. In my opinion (see), I think A17 is much less grindy.

 
His post claimed A16 was a grind-fest where the player went out and did things just the grind the related perk and not because they needed to do that actual thing.
This happened to me all the time and I had to "mine" with a stone axe or claw hammer to get that construction skill up in order to advance.

Just one example.

This cannot be news...

 
Yeah........ Based on? Your opinion? Some people in this thread? Most people on this forum? Most actual players.Always be careful with interchanging facts and opinions.

If you want a second time you hear it (even though I've stated it many times already); I think A16 was an easy grind-fest, with this whole LBD-system. In my opinion (see), I think A17 is much less grindy.
Both could be considered "grindy" - grind essentially, roughly put, is a repetitive unpleasant activity that quickly gets old.

-I believe A17, because of its unbalanced xp sources, is more linear when it comes to leveling activities (zombie killing early game, mining late game are by far the most effective ***) and is perceived by many as more grindy for that reason.

-A16 on the other hand, compelled the player to do a variety of leveling activities because of the separate skill progressions. And even if there were ways for the activities themselves to become terribly "grindy", players would still have to do a variety of them.

I don't know which group of people is larger and it's meaningless to argue about it, but the above facts, along with the fact that many recipes have been added into leveling progression making it more essential in A17, contribute, in my opinion, to the fact that many have complained about A17 feeling grindy.

* Facts and opinions carefully separated :p

*** (let it not devolve to a discussion whether players should try to be effective or not. Strong incentives exist in leveling and since they exist, it is natural for people to try to be effective.)

 
This happened to me all the time and I had to "mine" with a stone axe or claw hammer to get that construction skill up in order to advance.Just one example.

This cannot be news...
So... balance issues??!

 
This happened to me all the time and I had to "mine" with a stone axe or claw hammer to get that construction skill up in order to advance.Just one example.

This cannot be news...
That's a balance issue and a gated issue, not a system flaw. My opinion.

 
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