Ghostlight
New member
And on Steam. And on reddit. And on youtube. Always the perk system. But yeah, it's a bubble.
Or perhaps they think the fight is worth fighting for until won or lost.
PC Decline in 7 Days Twitch Streamers
- Thread starter xXBadDreamXx
- Start date
Ya, mostly the same 20 people vs mostly the same 4 people defending it. I have yet to hear any actual reason or facts from the people defending the perk system. Their main argument is that the system is similar in the way that we perk up. You actually never see "The new perk system is good because --blank--" It is always "I am still enjoying a17" or "It is good" those are not reasons or facts supporting it..
I have posted why I like the perk system a few times, sorry if you didn't see any of them.
I like that I can choose a perk freely without having to do specific grind tasks.
I don't like auto-level designs in RPGs and always turn them off (there are some games that have autolevel to make sure no one is able to make a misspecced character that is not able to complete the game). LBD is not autolevel per se but quite similar in that you have to change your actions in the game to conform to your leveling plan. Otherwise, if you play organically (i.e. doing actions just because of in-game events and needs instead of playing a meta game of xp gathering) the game auto-levels you.
That is reason, good job.
You say "without having to do specific grind tasks", except you are still doing specific grind tasks. That has not changed. The difference is your grind tasks have been reduced and regulated to a couple things instead of a variety. You get less reward for doing more limited tasks. I didnt mind the system at first either, it was fun doing the first couple playthroughs. After that the limitations and blandness start to shine.
As far a "auto-level designs", never heard of it. Maybe give an example. But either way, to me it doesnt seem to me that LBD is even related to that, and the new system seems more auto since you dont have to actually preform a task to become a master at it. So, Ill pass on commenting further on your last paragraph.
Prisma501
New member
Maybe, just maybe its not defending. Just simply stating to have no problem with it or even like it is subjective as hell anyways. What you gonna do? Argue they shouldnt like it? Its allready in. There is no reason to put arguments on why you like it. But if it makes you happy, here we go. Im agreeing with meganoth above me, but most of all i like the semi class system. Not preset choose to be a "miner", "fighter", "builder" etc. But intermix with "strong", "smart", "agile", "perceptive" etc. So a class light sys. I totally dig it.
Cheers
Lol, wut?
The difference between "defending", and stating you "dont have a problem with it" would be being able to grasp some sort of advantage, or good aspect of the change. You are right, in order to defend something you would need a reason. Just "not having a problem" would mean there is nothing you can state that is better about it.
No, I dont plan on arguing against you liking it without any reason to like it. You are free to just like something for no good reason, that is on you.
You could do a class or semi-class with LBD too. By working at whatever tasks your class does, and perking accordingly... So what you like about it was present with LBD too.
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Prisma501
New member
With the big difference that i /had/ to do it to level up. I like it more to do whatever i want and spend the points into the attributes i need at a specific time to make my character "smarter", "stronger", "more perceptive" etc and then choose which perks i want to level. So i like the current system more than LBD. More freedom to shape your character without having to "craft 1000 stone axes" or "stand on a cactus". It just feels better.
Cheers
fragtzack
New member
The new gates with a17 significantly slow down the progression of the game, which means better tools and building contructions are delayed.
Most of the streamers do building a base episodes. The time spend on survival aspects, scavenging, poi clearing, exploring is very minimal in comparison.
a17 significantly prolongs the end game and that is a good thing IMO. Sad for the streamers as they have to work more to get to a level where they can show building a fort videos, but this prolonging the end game is more in align with the stated purpose of this game: Survival, crafting, zombie hordes. Tis not billed as a constructions game with all other aspects a side show.
JaxTeller718
New member
This is also known as "I dont want to kill zombies to level my shotgun so ill mine all night to buy the shotgun perk"
Thats the only benefit to Perks. It takes away the need to actually do anything to make that skill better. So zombie grinding gets you a perk for getting more wood etc.
PoppaTot
New member
I enjoy both systems, LBD more so than the current, but I always laugh when someone says this. It's a lazy argument. You never once HAD to do either of those. I've maxed my character in those specific categories and never once had to "craft 1000 stone axes" or "stand on a cactus". I may have accidentally stood on a cactus or two and felt like a dummy.
Point being, you chose to do those exploits instead of letting level organically because you (not necessarily you, but anyone who did it) were either, lazy, impatient, or both lol.
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JaxTeller718
New member
It doesnt feel better. They just took away the work you had to do to spam craft. Instead of crafting 1000 axes now you just afk mine all night and you get the same spam tactic.
Dont act like this Perk system is revolutionary. It isnt. It takes the actual grind out of spam levelling things and rewards those SAME players by allowing them to do such things as chop trees to level their health and weapons.
And myself nor anyone I played with ever used spam anything. I made a tool, it wore down I made a new one. Rinse repeat. Choice was yours to huddle in a corner and spam axes.
Guppycur
Well-known member
Bottom line, is they never did perks/skills right. Ever.
Yes, spamcrafting 1000 stone axes increased your ability to make a better stone axe (made total sense) but also allowed you to buy concrete (was totally stupid), so instead of just removing the ability to buy concrete if you spam stone axes, they eliminate the entire thing. Why?
All they've done is eliminate the bad AND the good part of that system. Now, as Jax has pointed out, just mine or chop trees. What's the differences, except that you no longer even have the good part of the system (leveling up by doing)?
Yes, spamcrafting 1000 stone axes increased your ability to make a better stone axe (made total sense) but also allowed you to buy concrete (was totally stupid), so instead of just removing the ability to buy concrete if you spam stone axes, they eliminate the entire thing. Why?
All they've done is eliminate the bad AND the good part of that system. Now, as Jax has pointed out, just mine or chop trees. What's the differences, except that you no longer even have the good part of the system (leveling up by doing)?
Prisma501
New member
Yeh bad examples, but mostly used by the min/maxers "defending" the old LBD. Im not playing min/max. But my point is, i really really dont care to get XP from whatever activity i do and distribute it to completely unrelated attributes/perks (i like it even). The categorizing in "strong", "smart", "perceptive" seem quiet logical to me too. LBD feels less free to me in that context.
Cheers
- - - Updated - - -
Would you mind NOT telling me what feels better to me. Thanks mate!
Cheers
fragtzack
New member
Appreciate all the efforts you put into Ravenhearst. There was quite a bit in Ravenhearst I didn't agree with. Certainly don't remember coming into the Ravenhearst forum posts and making personal attacks on the developer of Ravenhearst because of some of the aspects I thought were bad with Ravenhearts. I knew it was your baby, your choices and your modded game. So it was all good.
Yet..
Yet the developer of Ravenhearst is on a very personal crusade against a17 because only his way is the right way.
Really sad Mr. Teller.
Yet..
Yet the developer of Ravenhearst is on a very personal crusade against a17 because only his way is the right way.
Really sad Mr. Teller.
Those LBD activites were never things you had to go do exclusively. You could "stand on a cactus" while gathering aloe and making bandages for science/medicine and searching birdsnests and trash for scavenging, and crafting them into arrows for weaponsmithing. They intermingled well with each other imo.
When playing on extreme difficulties it was nice to have something to do at your base when you didnt feel like risking being out in the wild. (stone axes, anvils, mining ect.) It gave additional incentive do a variety of activities with a purpose no matter where you were or what you were doing.
With the current system, it gives you incentive only get xp and reach the next unlock. Sorry but to me that is bland in comparison. But, ya its in, its probably not gonna change. I am more hoping that TFP's hear all the complaints and manage to bring back the flavor the game had before, rather than hoping they bring back LBD. (somehow, if possible...)
Simply because the I think the task would be too monumental to actually change back when you consider the other stuff they changed.
Couple that with the fact we dont have to chase "loot only" items much anymore (crafting all guns and power tools) makes me feel like everything is going in the wrong direction. Finding awesome stuff you couldnt get anywhere else was such a good aspect of looting in this game.
Now, there is not much incentive to do anything but farm XP. Hopefully that will change when have more pieces of paper to loot for mods, legendary items ect. (but that hope is wearing thin the more I think about it)
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Prisma501
New member
Gawd dayum. Exactly as i predicted. "We need arguments why you like it!". Giving my gawd dayum personal opinion on it and here we are people telling me how to feel and arguing to dont like the things i like. Go figure. Good luck getting TFP to change anything you dont like. I sure as hell dont have to.
Cheers
-edit- ai we were typing post at same time Maynard69. This wasnt directed at your post above mine.The elitists on the other hand...
Cheers
-edit- ai we were typing post at same time Maynard69. This wasnt directed at your post above mine.The elitists on the other hand...
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Reduced or just less? As far as I know you still get xp for any task you that you got xp in A16. It may not be balanced atm, but I always said there needs to be more balancing done here. If someone wants to build a gigantic garden and get xp from that, well, good for him. In keeping with the general design probably planting should generate "heat" for screamers or gardens should be a target (albeit very low on the list) for zombies.
Some RPGs either have that as an option and/or do it for companions. Examples are Dragon Age Origins, Knights of the old Republic, Mass Effect, Pathfinder: Kingmaker, Final Fantasy, Divinity: Original Sin 2.
RestInPieces
New member
Well recipe-specific diminishing returns (that could get replenished overtime), would make even more sense, since, at some point after enough practice, you learn progressively less or there is simply nothing left to learn. Anyway, they did consider "fixing" A16 at some point, but I don't know why they decided against it.
Afaik none is against A17 as a whole. Most people just prefer specific elements. And as long as anyone supports their points with arguments/common sense, there's nothing wrong with it.
And to get exp people tend to choose the single most efficient activity. Yes, that's the reason A17 is seen as more linear. Nothing surprising there. I don't get how some people are surprised that others consider A17 as more "linear". Can they not understand this simple concept? Aren't they bored of being surprised every time someone joins these forums and complains about "linear", "grinding" etc?
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