PC Death Penalty Poll

[Poojam]

Those statistics don't necessarily represent the truth.Right now we're seeing a knee-jerk reaction to something new.

I think a far bigger mistake would be for TFP to over compensate and end up with another A16 where it was just too easy.

I'm not going to dispute what you posted. Those numbers are indeed.... numbers and percentages of things and stuff.

I'll give you that.

How about some incremental changes.... see what people think... then we go from there.

Ah, so now we'll just say the numbers don't matter?

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Ah, so now we'll just say the numbers don't matter?

Where were the polls during A16 where it said "should we change the death penalty to be 60 minutes?"

 

[LuckyStar]

Ah, so now we'll just say the numbers don't matter?
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Where were the polls during A16 where it said "should we change the death penalty to be 60 minutes?"

No I agree that there's some merit to poles and those numbers have value.

I guess what I'm suggesting is that we weigh them properly.

Those numbers don't take into account the initial reaction of a player base that, once they settle into A17 and get used to a new system, may very well want something different.

That's the problem with statistics. They don't always take into account the "Human Factor".

TFP made a compromise decision and I feel it was a good one.

They didn't remove the penalty, they cut it in half.

That's exactly what they should have done.

Now we wait and see .....

Maybe they adjust it again.. maybe they make it subjective to difficulty level... maybe nothing.

 

[Krougal]

I agree.
One of the problems with technology is that people forget how to use Critical thinking.

Ask some Millennials and they won't even be able to tell you what that means.

It's one thing to struggle solving a problem, it's a much bigger thing to not even know how to go about asking the right questions.

Now we see people upset because they can't just google their way out of a tough situation.

Sorry if that upsets people but... too bad.

I think the Death penalty SUCKS but that's what makes me like it.

Now I'm scared of dying so I'm playing a more tactical game.

Guess that doesn't work with day fly attention span run-and-gunners.

What a load of bullcrap!

People died on purpose to get rid of sickness or fast travel because there was no penalty.

Normally I would agree with you and the other guy about the first part, but this is a friggin video game.

No penalty? When you work very hard to max your wellness, plus the diminishing rate of raising higher wellness, let me tell you, 10 points of wellness was BRUTAL. Multiple deaths would be downright ragequit material. No penalty for you 70 wellness scrubs maybe. Pffft.

Yep, that's a valid reason of why one may not like the death penalty - crafting. However the penalty must be something that deeply affects the player. Haven't thought of a better way to achieve that than this one. But then again there are also equipment and buff scrolls which help you raise your attributes.


I am usually playing with "delete inventory" - I just see to that I always have spare equipment. And that is the only case death stings a little with this setting - when you suddenly die exploring while having stuff you want to store in your base. In any other case, like dying when defending, it's not much of a penalty.

Well that's a good option for people who don't think the penalty is severe enough. It's like death is death lite. Also gives you a reason to keep spares instead of selling everything.

I'm actually hoping to see an option to play "dead is dead."
You die, your save it deleted.

Now that is a harsh penalty.

It's fun though.

Scary as heck to try anything outside especially setting zombies to always run.

[Though that was A16. I think A17 you'd pretty much die in the first three days every time.]

You were just complaining about millenials a few posts back and now you're too lazy to go delete the save yourself? :eyeroll:

Seriously though, I know what you mean, I leave cheats off these days for the same reason unless I'm doing a creativemode thing cause otherwise I know the temptation is too strong to resist (and I don't feel like I die/lose ♥♥♥♥ to bugs as often in A17)

So polling so far condensing those who agree the penalty is ok vs those who think the penalty just blows donkey balls, it looks like most of us don't hate it completely. Yeah, it's a small sample size, but considering complainers are more likely to take the time to stop and vote, I'm surprised they're in the minority.

I gotta say the penalty bothers me much less in MP, where I more often feel when I die that is is my own fault as opposed to SP where I feel I die more at random (and I probably die in equal amounts either way).

 

[Poojam]

No I agree that there's some merit to poles and those numbers have value.
I guess what I'm suggesting is that we weigh them properly.

Those numbers don't take into account the initial reaction of a player base that, once they settle into A17 and get used to a new system, may very well want something different.

That's the problem with statistics. They don't always take into account the "Human Factor".

TFP made a compromise decision and I feel it was a good one.

They didn't remove the penalty, they cut it in half.

That's exactly what they should have done.

Now we wait and see .....

Maybe they adjust it again.. maybe they make it subjective to difficulty level... maybe nothing.

Just to clarify. This poll was started after they cut it in half.

 

[Exxodous]

It is accurate to say 46% of players think it should be 15 minutes or less. (~ half of all voters)?

This is not entirely accurate. 24% like the penalty but think it should be only 15 min. The remaining 22% want no penalty at all. They are not mutually inclusive.

Assuming TFP stays with the death penalty (which I hope they do) and lower it to 15 min, the 22 percent that want no penalty at all will still be upset regardless of the duration. Along with 35% that want it longer than 15 min.

So no matter what the end result is, the numbers in this poll show that the majority will not like it. Best they can do is make the most people possible happy and stick with the winning vote at 33% and leave it at 30 min.

A better poll would have been "do you like the death penalty (in some duration) or not". Death penalty proponents win out in this poll 68% to 32%

Statistics are great, they can be manipulated to support almost any argument.

 

[Poojam]

A lot of the people that killed themselves to remove the broken leg debuff was because it was too long, too restrictive to your movement, or it was often incurred by a bug. The loss to your wellness, gamestage, and inconvenience of having to transfer your stuff was simply less annoying than suffering for an hour of IRL play. I can think of many times where I struggled on with it splinted, only to have it rebroken with 2 minutes left on the counter as I stroll down a slightly steep hill or hop off a box. Bam. Get to wait another hour for it to heal. It wasn't fun.

Using that as a reason to make the death debuff worse is making the same bad decision twice.

 

[LuckyStar]

Just to clarify. This poll was started after they cut it in half.

Just to clarify, it was made just days after the release of A17.

I mean come on.

You want to play the pedantic game?

People are still in shock over this new system and you can't deny that some are over reacting.

Look I'm not saying you are wrong about wanting TFP to consider what they've done with A17.

There are some people who feel they aren't represented well with this new build.

I think what's more important is to take this a lot slower.

Give people a real chance to get used to A17 before crushing every change.

In time we may grow to love some of these things that are initially shocking.

 

[Poojam]

This is not entirely accurate. 24% like the penalty but think it should be only 15 min. The remaining 22% want no penalty at all. They are not mutually inclusive.
Assuming TFP stays with the death penalty (which I hope they do) and lower it to 15 min, the 22 percent that want no penalty at all will still be upset regardless of the duration. Along with 35% that want it longer than 15 min.

So no matter what the end result is, the numbers in this poll show that the majority will not like it. Best they can do is make the most people possible happy and stick with the winning vote at 33% and leave it at 30 min.

A better poll would have been "do you like the death penalty (in some duration) or not". Death penalty proponents win out in this poll 68% to 32%

Statistics are great, they can be manipulated to support almost any argument.

I would agree with you IF there was an option for saying the death penalty is fine for some value between 15 minutes and 0. It says "no more than 15 minutes". I tend to default my assessment back to saying that category is inclusive with the nays.

I completely agree that the poll is flawed. I can spot at least 3 different ways in which the data are left to interpretation.

One could also say that the people that were willing to quit, didn't know to come to the forums to vote.

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Just to clarify, it was made just days after the release of A17.

It was created 1 day ago.... Look at the first page of this thread.

 

[Krougal]

Pretty much all polls are flawed, they're good to get an idea, but usually are constructed in a way to support whoever made the polls agenda. (not that I'm saying this one was)

I'd bet most of the people who said they would uninstall are like the celebs who said they would leave the USA; they're still be here.

 

[LuckyStar]

A17e released more than one day ago.

My POINT was that people are still reacting to a big change.

The AMOOOOOOOOUNT of single days in unimportant.

Do you see why Roland is often frustrated by your posts?

It's like you focus on

- a single letter

- in a word

- in a sentence

- in a paragraph

- on a page

- in a chapter

- in a novel

and you forget what you're reading.

Come on. Stay focused.

You were making some points... we were debating... then you [possibly] got high and lost track?

What?

What happened here?

 

[Exxodous]

One could also say that the people that were willing to quit, didn't know to come to the forums to vote.

One could ALSO say that people who think 60 min death penalty was a great idea, didn't know to come to the forums to vote.

We forum vultures are a small percentage of the game ownership. We are also more likely to be passionate and outspoken personalities as those types of people generally migrate towards places they can express said passion. Who knows what the casual gamer thinks.

My wife definitely falls into the casual gamer category and she hasn't said boo about the new death penalty. I couldn't tell you if she likes it or hates it. Maybe I should have her come and vote, of course she'd have to create an account first lol.

Point is this poll really means squat. TFP is making a game they like, we either like it too or we do something about it. Quitting is technically doing something. I like the 60 min, can live with 30 min, will mod higher it if they put it at 15 min.

 

[Poojam]

My POINT was that people are still reacting to a big change.
The AMOOOOOOOOUNT of single days in unimportant.

Do you see why Roland is often frustrated by your posts?

It's like you focus on

- a single letter

- in a word

- in a sentence

- in a paragraph

- on a page

- in a chapter

- in a novel

and you forget what you're reading.

Come on. Stay focused.

You were making some points... we were debating... then you [possibly] got high and lost track?

What?

What happened here?

You had better believe that if the poll had overwhelming showed people liked the 60 minute debuff, Roland would be snipping and /TLDRing that straight to the TFP staff.

He probably already did with the 30 minute figure, which I call shenanigans on for the aforementioned reasons. I welcome the critiquing from Exx, but I believe Roland is playing fast and loose with this vote. It wouldn't surprise me if it was solicited by TFP for exactly the reason he stated, which was to see how many folks hate it enough to quit.

 

[Roland]

I've re-read your earlier statement. Pasted it above in green.
I stand by my accusation.

Thanks for the proof you were misquoting me.

What you were interested in was determining who hates it enough to quit.

Yes. I agree that was what I was looking at. There are only two categories that mention quitting and then there is other. None of the Other explanations that I read said they would quit the game. If I stated plainly that that was specifically what I was looking at and then said that it is the smallest group then what's your problem?

Not simply what the playerbase thinks the value should be.

Well....yes. I didn't purport to be making a statement about this. I don't think the poll is exactly clear on what the playerbase thinks the value should be. That number seems to vary wildly from 0 - 60 minutes.

When you say that the 30 minute compromise is acceptable to MOST people, you are putting your own spin on this poll.

Yes I am. I'm making an analysis but it probably isn't what you think. My thought process was that if TFP still had the penalty at the 60min mark with no stated willingness to lower it we probably would have had many many more voting in the two quitting categories. THAT is what I was commenting on--that because they softened it they turned away a lot of the anger that we saw during the first week. And once again, I was not just looking at what percentage of the player base like or dislike it period. I'm interested in how many dislike it enough to quit. That is the context I stated and that is the context that I posted within.

The next poll option down states no longer than 15 minutes. Not 15 minutes is best. So that response category should be counted as is inclusive of the categories below 15 minutes, which are setup in such a way to guage the level of dissatisfaction. You kinda beefed the way you setup these options to support your statement.

I think if the poll was unfairly beefing things one way you would have stated it far sooner than now. In fact nobody has accused the poll itself of being slanted a particular way. I certainly wasn't trying to do that. I really do want to know the actual results and I don't feel threatened in the least by the results. TFP will either keep the penalty as is because that's what they want or they will change it because they decide something else is better. My own interest has always been to see how many feel strongly enough about this to quit. Answer: not very many.

How many will moan about it but continue to play and adapt or mod it to their liking? That is probably the "most" category. I don't like the level gates but I'm not going to quit because of them. I'll adapt and will possibly try a modlet that removes them so I can make a bike during the first week if I want.

It is accurate to say 46% of players think it should be 15 minutes or less. (~ half of all voters)
It is accurate to say 67% of players think it should be something other 30 minutes. (~2/3rds of all voters)

It is fair to say only 12% of players think it should be more than 30 minutes, which is the what was originally released. (one in 8 players)

It is fair to say 9% of players want a different set of rules. (~ one in 10 players)

That's fine. I'm good with those numbers. But the players they represent are not likely to quit the game over it. They'll mod or adapt just like people do with the food bars and water bars.

It is not accurate to say that 30 minutes is acceptable to most players. Only 1 in 3 players advocates for 30 minute death timer.
I thought you were a math whiz?

30 minutes is acceptable enough to most players that they won't outright quit. Instead they'll adapt or mod. This just my interpretation and doesn't reflect TFP.

 

[Krougal]

One could ALSO say that people who think 60 min death penalty was a great idea, didn't know to come to the forums to vote.
We forum vultures are a small percentage of the game ownership. We are also more likely to be passionate and outspoken personalities as those types of people generally migrate towards places they can express said passion. Who knows what the casual gamer thinks.

My wife definitely falls into the casual gamer category and she hasn't said boo about the new death penalty. I couldn't tell you if she likes it or hates it. Maybe I should have her come and vote, of course she'd have to create an account first lol.

Point is this poll really means squat. TFP is making a game they like, we either like it too or we do something about it. Quitting is technically doing something. I like the 60 min, can live with 30 min, will mod higher it if they put it at 15 min.

Yeah, face it, casuals don't come to forums. They barely have enough time to play. Hell I don't like to come to forums unless I've got nothing to do or I really need to get/give info, otherwise I'd be playing.

Bottom line is always they are going to make the game they want, and at least 1 thing about TFP they at least play their own damn game (nothing like watching devs who their game is just a job to them try to play their own game and fail miserably). I mean hell I've gotten a lot of good playtips from Joel and Gazz over the years.

That being said doesn't mean they are completely close-minded or think they are infallible or inflexible, so yes, our opinions still matter, just not as much as most of us like to think, but then isn't that always the case....

Also sometimes we do need to be forced to try things, I wasn't a fan of the level gates, wasn't going to waste time crying about it, was going to mod them out...once stable...but y'know what, after playing a bit this way, I don't think they are so bad. You adjust, and what good is it to rush right to gyrocopter when you can't build or fuel it and you should probably be out looking for food anyway.

 

[Poojam]

Yeah, face it, casuals don't come to forums. They barely have enough time to play. Hell I don't like to come to forums unless I've got nothing to do or I really need to get/give info, otherwise I'd be playing.
Bottom line is always they are going to make the game they want, and at least 1 thing about TFP they at least play their own damn game (nothing like watching devs who their game is just a job to them try to play their own game and fail miserably). I mean hell I've gotten a lot of good playtips from Joel and Gazz over the years.

That being said doesn't mean they are completely close-minded or think they are infallible or inflexible, so yes, our opinions still matter, just not as much as most of us like to think, but then isn't that always the case....

If you think Joel plays the game a lot, you are sorely mistaken. Gazz probably, but I think he was an addict like most of us before he started working for TFP.

 

[Reth]

It's not something subjective, it is as objective as math. Besides the inventory loss which was very circumstantial, there wasn't really a penalty.
-The purpose of wellness was making you harder to die (stamina was never a problem), but death itself was actually beneficial resetting your status from negative debuffs.

-If you wanted to stay alive (with which wellness did help) and cared about wellness to get stronger hordes for better loot, you have to ask yourself what is the point of better loot? Is it not to make your survival easier AKA avoid death?

-Losing wellness made it a little harder to avoid death, a beneficial thing.

I hope you can see that the system did not compute.

That's just the thing. Any penalty is *highly* subjective. Extreme example: if you are about to die from an incurable illness you may not even care about RL death penalty. Incarceration may be a tough punishment for normal people, but there are those who could care less.

Due to my play style I didn't *need* any additional penalties to avoid the exploits Gazz was talking about. I avoided it because of the reasons I mentioned. Period. They were more than enough for me. You may or may not have the same reasons, which is fine. TFP decided to punish my playstyle for something somebody else allegedly did. And worst of all - with extra boredom, like there isn't enough of that already.

How widespread were those exploits? I've seen numerous videos by Z-Nation FFS - one of my favorite streamers - and I don't believe he did anything of sorts either. I've seen many other streams and I don't recall people saying 'damn, I broke my leg, let's die real quick'.

This whole "let's punish the majority for something the minority did" approach is getting old.

 

[LuckyStar]

You had better believe that if the poll had overwhelming showed people liked the 60 minute debuff, Roland would be snipping and /TLDRing that straight to the TFP staff.
He probably already did with the 30 minute figure, which I call shenanigans on for the aforementioned reasons. I welcome the critiquing from Exx, but I believe Roland is playing fast and loose with this vote. It wouldn't surprise me if it was solicited by TFP for exactly the reason he stated, which was to see how many folks hate it enough to quit.

Isn't that called market research.

 

[Poojam]

This whole "let's punish the majority for something the minority did" approach is getting old.

Agreed. I'd rather they spent that time rewriting the death penalty towards putting in bandits.

 

[Reth]

You had better believe that if the poll had overwhelming showed people liked the 60 minute debuff, Roland would be snipping and /TLDRing that straight to the TFP staff.
He probably already did with the 30 minute figure, which I call shenanigans on for the aforementioned reasons. I welcome the critiquing from Exx, but I believe Roland is playing fast and loose with this vote. It wouldn't surprise me if it was solicited by TFP for exactly the reason he stated, which was to see how many folks hate it enough to quit.

I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. He knows real well that the vast majority of the people taking this poll will either a) accept it if they like it or b) mod it if they don't.

I'm only voicing my opinion to potentially reduce the number of things I have to mod to start enjoying this game again.

 

[OzHawkeye]

Agreed. I'd rather they spent that time rewriting the death penalty towards putting in bandits.

And I'd rather bandits than an even more watered down death penalty.

Hence the forum poll, and which ever side gets the most votes wins. Democracy in action, I say.