PC Death Debuff - Possible Suggestion - Please Consider and/or Comment!

[skullpoker]

It's real easy to turn off the main death penalty. Go into your buffs.xml and search for trauma. scroll down to the 1800 duration and change it to 1. Now instead of a 30 minute death penalty it lasts for 1 second. You will still drop some/all items or have them deleted based on the game settings.

It makes me wonder why we don't see more PvP people freaking out about the death penalty. If you get killed once, you are basically going to get seal-clubbed forever as the penalties stack up with each death.

 

[PPanda0421]

So my question is this. The game offers the highly punitive "Destroy All on Death" option. Is everyone already playing with that enabled regularly? If not and they are wanting more punitive death penalties why aren't they playing with the worst one we already have? I think all death penalties should be optional so people can choose how afraid they are of death.
Drop Items on/off

Destroy Items on/off

Persistent Buffs on/off

Max HP/Stamina at 50 on/off

Near Death Sickness on/off

Erase World on/off

Agree. Though if TFP doesn't want to add those options then how about debuff duration depends on your difficulty level? Like perhaps very low duration or none at scavenger up to the max at insane.

IMO 30 minutes is still a little too high, perhaps set the max at 20 minutes. Or perhaps add that as an option.

 

[RipClaw]

None of the others have “Die” in their title?

Only it's not death, it's near-death. When you wake up on your bedroll the message is "You barely made it... again" and not "Welcome to the afterlife".

 

[RestInPieces]

In terraria

....

In Minecraft

....

ALL of those other survival games

Right. Ok.

Why does 7dtd need to punish players for dying disproportionately to the other games of the genre? Because people are using death to teleport?

People using math to teleport... golden. Anyway, you go ahead and compare games with completely different mechanics, inventory systems etc just because they are of a "similar genre" and say that 7DTD should work similarly with them in other irrelevant aspects.

Haven't played Raft yet.

The Forest for example cannot possibly penalize players with inventory loss, because of the item/inventory system. E.g. many of the items aren't craftable/farmable or are unique, there is no practical all-purpose storage etc.

You can't build a chest or respawn anywhere you like in Subnautica in a flash like you can in 7DTD to protect your items and most resources are much more limited. Subnautica is almost exclusively about exploration - 7DTD is more multidimensional than that and much of the time deleting or dropping items is inconsequential.

So my question is this. The game offers the highly punitive "Destroy All on Death" option. Is everyone already playing with that enabled regularly? If not and they are wanting more punitive death penalties why aren't they playing with the worst one we already have? I think all death penalties should be optional so people can choose how afraid they are of death.

Of course - since TFP have been going for a 100% malleable experience from the start, I don't see a reason for DPs to not be optional. But as for the "destroy on death" penalty, I do use it myself, but it is not a particularly good fit for 7DTD. You can mostly circumvent it with the cost of increased inventory micromanagement. I made a post about it in another thread as well.

Deleting on death doesn't even constitute for a penalty most of the time and is very unintuitive overall. -The severity of the penalty depends on inventory management. Subsequently increases inventory management by a *lot*, compels the player to build chests and store items every time there is imminent risk.

-The severity of the penalty also depends on loot RNG when you e.g. die accidentally when scavenging.

-It is mostly useless as a penalty when the player expects danger like BM, or when the player knows he will risk his life/is prepared and can be used to exploit death to teleport (and currently reset other "annoying" debuffs) etc.

btw, as far as the "reward" goes for staying alive - the framework already exists in game. it's just implemented backwards. Gamestage. Your gamestage is a combination of your level progression and days survived...so why not make gamestage have a benefit. Currently the sole purpose of gamestage is - again, not a surprise in 7dtd - punitive.

I don't like level scaling either - not because I find it punitive or something (it kind of is but it's a long discussion), but because it undermines item and character progression and in the end leads to a more static experience.

 

[Khulkhuum]

Dropping or destroying items is literally inconsequential, because even playing on tougher settings you don't get any reward from it. Many games that implement such mechanics (don't mean only survival games) allow the players to find some unique items or unique places to visit due to the mode chosen. If a player needs to make his/her own rewards for "playing harder" then to some extent it's pointless. I like how Terraria added Expert Mode which was way tougher, but let the players get some cool items in the process. Surely hardcore (character deletion after death) doesn't bring practically anything (apart from one bonus item after you defeat the final boss), yet that's mostly how hardcore works.

This makes tougher difficulties simply a challenge in its own looks. It doesn't give anything substantial, apart from the feeling of self fulfillment. People who stream challenge runs can work with that, but as 7DTD doesn't have an end game yet, i don't see anyone doing no-hit runs or speed runs. No showing of skills there sadly...

Looking from the other perspective, not dying could promote some kind of rewards also, perhaps making the player buffed in some way due to surviving longer with harder settings. This surely brings up similar topic to death penalty - if i die i don't get the buff. Although, gaining something is quite different than losing something, especially as it could stack with more days you live. If it would be tied to difficulty, even better.

 

[HungryZombie]

Ummm...... you do realize that dropping stuff on death is completely optional and server admin decides on that?If you think its too punishing, turn item drop on death off.

This is literally how free teleport back to base exploit emerged, you lost literally nothing and saved time.

In these other games, you habe NO options to turn item drop off, in 7d you can do it almost since the beginning.

Death penalty needs to stay, don't like dropping items? Turn it off.

You can't turn off dropping your items. You can choose between your toolbelt or your backpack though. If people are doing it on servers it's a mod and not part of the base game.

 

[myrkana]

You can't turn off dropping your items. You can choose between your toolbelt or your backpack though. If people are doing it on servers it's a mod and not part of the base game.

and thats fine. This game is very modable for a reason

 

[Yamamoto80]

and thats fine. This game is very modable for a reason

So True. I didn't even know what an XML was until I played 7DTD. Took a 5 minute tutorial of how to open the files in Notepad++ and BOOM, I was hosting games for friends setting up my own GS calculations on spreadsheets, adding in recipes, making shotguns into fully automatic machine guns... the sky's the limit! xD

 

[Khulkhuum]

If 7DTD gameplay stood at the same level in A17 as in A16 i think there wouldn't be any problem with DP. Remember how many long time players jumped into Experimental and were overwhelmed? In A17 is quite more common to die from Zs (to some extent) due to the change in fighting and zombie AI. Of course, some will say that if you're smart you'll never die (or always outrun Zs).

On the other hand, most of the players that get used to the fighting and exploration, will eventually get this "buff" all the time, because they will adapt so well they won't ever die. Surely some of us already know how to fight and not die (or simply how careful to be not to die even when building, mining, etc.). This means that many of the players will have that constant 25% bonus (or whatever the max) for quite a long time.

The elephant in the room of this conversation is the faster rising GS. Lower attributes do not contribute or detriment your XP gains, they only make your life harder for a set amount of time. Considering not everyone wants to get a more difficult game the longer they play "safe", i would propose a few alternate bonuses for living longer (pick one really, as these are suggestions and not deeply thought over):

1. Loot quality - Like with Lucky Goggles, you might find better items in the world.

2. Better trader prices - Maybe not giving a big bonus, but beneficial enough so that people would see the difference.

3. Higher damage of tools/weapons - The longer you live, the better you are with hitting/shooting things.

Now i'll wait for someone to edit their buffs.xml and add a new "buff" for a multiplier in XP, Loot quality, Trader prices or higher damage.

 

[RipClaw]

On the other hand, most of the players that get used to the fighting and exploration, will eventually get this "buff" all the time, because they will adapt so well they won't ever die. Surely some of us already know how to fight and not die (or simply how careful to be not to die even when building, mining, etc.). This means that many of the players will have that constant 25% bonus (or whatever the max) for quite a long time.

There is already an item which gives you 10% extra XP all the time, the nerdy glasses. 10% extra bonus seems not to be a problem if there is already something in the game that gives you this bonus.

 

[Khulkhuum]

There is already an item which gives you 10% extra XP all the time, the nerdy glasses. 10% extra bonus seems not to be a problem if there is already something in the game that gives you this bonus.

But you don't have to use those. Alternative for not having the bonus for living long would be to commit suicide. Not every playstyle will favor getting the most XP, but having to kill yourself is a bit over the top imho.

 

[RipClaw]

But you don't have to use those. Alternative for not having the bonus for living long would be to commit suicide. Not every playstyle will favor getting the most XP, but having to kill yourself is a bit over the top imho.

No you don't but most players I know are always happy when they find one.

The XP bonus was only a idea how the death debuff could be replaced by something that is more positive. Another possibility would be something like a extra skillpoint every X days or so.

By the way, gathering too much XP is in 17.2 not a problem anymore because you can reduce your XP gain in the settings. You can set the XP Multiplier down to 25% if you are interested in not leveling too fast. And leveling is not so painful like it was in 17.1. The gamestages.xml is fixed and the number of green zombies in POIs has now decreased significantly.

 

[Jackelmyer]

The problem with an XP reward system is that XP balance becomes harder to develop. Say the developer wants us to take 30 hours to get to lvl 80. Just some random pacing I pulled out of my rear.

With that XP modifier, now they have to balance the standard XP gains without the buff along with XP gains with the buff.

Which basically amounts to people who are really talented breezing through content and those who just aren't as talented being penalized simply because they struggle more.

Game difficulty should probably have a balance on the debuff that's given. Increased duration, increased severity, something along those lines.

Though IMO, don't use XP. Especially with the game being so dependant on XP now for progression and survivability... It's something that likely will raise some notable hairs.

I think the nerfing debuff is sufficient personally. It's put me in some tight spots not being able to dish the damage I need or not having the same amount of stamina.

Just make it more severe at higher difficulties.

 

[Yamamoto80]

Just wanted to say Thank You to everyone who's taken time to read and/or contribute to the thread. Feedback matters, and there are certainly no right or wrong answer here. Again, the purpose of this whole thread is to explore other possibilities surrounding the current Death Debuff. This has been a point of great contention for many players that Alpha 17 has trailed along with it, and we want the game to be as fun as possible for everyone.

After reading several valid points and many counterarguments I am of the opinion that the penalties assigned to a player upon death need to flexible. Players need to have the ability to individually determine what constitutes a "fair and fun" setback for dying in this survival game. There are those of us who thoroughly enjoy a harsh penalty, and there are those who don't want to have a penalty, period. By demanding a "one-size-fits-all" solution and denying this choice of how to experience the game in a way that's fun for each person, we are not taking into consideration how everyone feels and are not providing an effective solution to the situation.

 

[webskorpion]

It would punish players who love the risk. Dying is part of the zombie apocalypse. Anyone who does not die regularly every few days, has in my opinion set the game too easy. It's about the border experience.

I think the current game mechanics is a good compromise between punishment and fun through risky style of play.

I would not mind if the "Death Debuff" stacked up once. Whoever dies two times in a row should have the "Death Debuff" twice as long.

(Unfortunately, I can only speak very little English. I have used translation program German – English.)