Dear TFP, What are you doing?

[HammerDano]

I will say that some of this mentality comes from some people not liking change, not giving things a college try, so forth. But what matters is each person curates the game to their personal specifications on what they find enjoyable - thank goodness mods exist, and we have so many in-game options built in, to boot. Coming from my perspective at least, it's not coming from a place of being deliberately insulting at all - it's just that if I find something, for one reason or another, doesn't add to my personal experience, I can install a mod / change a setting to remove it, expand upon it, whatever floats my boat.

People complaining about x features when they have the option to mod them out, or even turn them off in-game, will never cease to confuse me, however. The amount of people complaining about storms and biome progression (not from a place of wanting to see them be improved, but they hate the concept period) when the options are literally right there baffles me. The people complaining that said toggles exist though... Oh boy...

I do agree however that the attitude is often nothing to be desired, referencing my point in my post above about behaviour and intent mattering most at the end of the day.

I just wanted them to follow their own roadmap. I bought back in BECAUSE they put out a comprehensive and reasonable roadmap...it looked achievable.
but here we are Q2 2025, 3.0 is not being released now...when it should be...it is not delayed...it has not been worked on in...how long?
there is no idea of when 3.0 is coming....but they added DLC. DLC that we have already seen in the pre launch dev streams. It is overpriced to boot.

What are their priorities? who knows?

At least consoles finally have dedicated servers...too bad my friends have given up on this game ever getting finished.

 

[zztong]

You guys don't like that they changed the direction of the game, but, you have mods to fix it.
Ever think that some of the complaints are from the people who don't have mods to fix it?

It's a fair point. I can't speak for everyone, but I try to remember some platforms don't support mods and that many users don't know to install them, much less make them. I'd like to be supportive if I can.

You guys don't like the complaints about the slow development...they are valid. TFP put out a ropadmap WITH DATES to sell the game to console. Why are you surprised we want them met?

all dates subject to change does not mean IN MY OWN SWEET TIME. (to most reasonable people)

Aww gee, I think everyone would like faster development and to see them meet exact dates. Not everyone took the dates to be a contract. TFP's release habits are well established. You can interpret that as a defense of the Devs if you want, but I see it as an observation. I regret that perhaps you and your friends didn't know. I could certainly agree that more frequent communication might have helped.

I do admit I can have some sympathy for the Devs on matters of project management and software development. It is nice to be your own stakeholder. When I was a PM and a Software Engineer I didn't usually have that luxury. For some projects a slow and iterative approach would have been really handy.

 

[HammerDano]

It's a fair point. I can't speak for everyone, but I try to remember some platforms don't support mods and that many users don't know to install them, much less make them. I'd like to be supportive if I can.

appreciated

Aww gee, I think everyone would like faster development and to see them meet exact dates. Not everyone took the dates to be a contract. TFP's release habits are well established. You can interpret that as a defense of the Devs if you want, but I see it as an observation. I regret that perhaps you and your friends didn't know. I could certainly agree that more frequent communication might have helped.

sorry, that statement is/was not meant to imply ONLY console that wants faster development, at the same time, it is the PC base, on here, who excuse their self imposed deadlines being missed...and the lack of communication.

I do admit I can have some sympathy for the Devs on matters of project management and software development. It is nice to be your own stakeholder. When I was a PM and a Software Engineer I didn't usually have that luxury. For some projects a slow and iterative approach would have been really handy.

I'd like to, but, the buck is supposed to stop at the boss's desk. So if by dev you mean Fataal and his contemporaries? I agree that they got put in a ackwatd position...their boss made promises they could not keep. at all. or does Dev include Rick and Joel? because I ain't letting them off the hook.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[Dark Sun]

appreciated

sorry, that statement is/was not meant to imply ONLY console that wants faster development, at the same time, it is the PC base, on here, who excuse their self imposed deadlines being missed...and the lack of communication.

I'd like to, but, the buck is supposed to stop at the boss's desk. So if by dev you mean Fataal and his contemporaries? I agree that they got put in a ackwatd position...their boss made promises they could not keep. at all. or does Dev include Rick and Joel? because I ain't letting them off the hook.

I hope that makes sense.

It's not excusing though, it's just recognizing patterns and shrugging "it is what it is". If TFP missed every single release date (hyperbole; could be true, but I don't have my notes with me), it would be a bit foolish to expect that to change for the next release, or anytime soon. As I always say, whatever initial release window TFP give out, double it, and then add a few more months.

 

[Riamus]

good grief...some of you regularly say that you plan on turning off ALL of the new content...you think because you say it with a smile isn't insulting?

From my point of view, it seems there have been a lot of these threads for complaining about the complainers, that just don't acknowledge how negative you lot are.

You guys don't like that they changed the direction of the game, but, you have mods to fix it.
Ever think that some of the complaints are from the people who don't have mods to fix it?

You guys don't like the complaints about the slow development...they are valid. TFP put out a ropadmap WITH DATES to sell the game to console. Why are you surprised we want them met?

all dates subject to change does not mean IN MY OWN SWEET TIME. (to most reasonable people)

which is the attitude we get back on here...not from TFP... it's from you.

Considering the devs have us the option to turn those off in the game itself, it is hardly insulting to say that you have chosen to do so. At that point, saying you play at the lowest or highest difficulty would be insulting because those aren't the defaults. Lol!

All I can say is that is people can't tell the difference between the posts some of us call toxic versus saying you don't like something and will turn it off in the options or use a mod, then that reflects very poorly on society.

People would like dates to be followed. That is a given. But most people who have been here very long, or even just playing any games being developed, understand that the reality is that dates get missed. Sometimes not by much, and sometimes by a lot. You can complain about it, and there isn't anything wrong with that, but it won't change reality. Being realistic about things helps you not to be angry all the time. Harping on something that won't change for months or years servers no purpose other than to make you unhappy. We have accepted reality and don't let it ruin our day.

I will say most people on this forum are not toxic. Even those who are regularly complaining. There are relatively few toxic people here, and thankfully they usually go away after a very short time. It is far better than on Steam forums or Reddit or YouTube.

 

[HammerDano]

Considering the devs have us the option to turn those off in the game itself, it is hardly insulting to say that you have chosen to do so. At that point, saying you play at the lowest or highest difficulty would be insulting because those aren't the defaults. Lol!

All I can say is that is people can't tell the difference between the posts some of us call toxic versus saying you don't like something and will turn it off in the options or use a mod, then that reflects very poorly on society.

People would like dates to be followed. That is a given. But most people who have been here very long, or even just playing any games being developed, understand that the reality is that dates get missed. Sometimes not by much, and sometimes by a lot. You can complain about it, and there isn't anything wrong with that, but it won't change reality. Being realistic about things helps you not to be angry all the time. Harping on something that won't change for months or years servers no purpose other than to make you unhappy. We have accepted reality and don't let it ruin our day.

I will say most people on this forum are not toxic. Even those who are regularly complaining. There are relatively few toxic people here, and thankfully they usually go away after a very short time. It is far better than on Steam forums or Reddit or YouTube.

they lied to get console to buy back in

the roadmap was NEVER going to be met...that is what gets said over and over...not the content...the timelines. They could have sold the game WITHOUT the dates...that would have been honest.

 

[Dark Sun]

Considering the devs have us the option to turn those off in the game itself, it is hardly insulting to say that you have chosen to do so. At that point, saying you play at the lowest or highest difficulty would be insulting because those aren't the defaults. Lol!

All I can say is that is people can't tell the difference between the posts some of us call toxic versus saying you don't like something and will turn it off in the options or use a mod, then that reflects very poorly on society.

People would like dates to be followed. That is a given. But most people who have been here very long, or even just playing any games being developed, understand that the reality is that dates get missed. Sometimes not by much, and sometimes by a lot. You can complain about it, and there isn't anything wrong with that, but it won't change reality. Being realistic about things helps you not to be angry all the time. Harping on something that won't change for months or years servers no purpose other than to make you unhappy. We have accepted reality and don't let it ruin our day.

I will say most people on this forum are not toxic. Even those who are regularly complaining. There are relatively few toxic people here, and thankfully they usually go away after a very short time. It is far better than on Steam forums or Reddit or YouTube.

Mmhmm. It's never good to fall to one extreme side of the pendulum. People calling out others for playing the game differently than them or daring to change things (even if it's in the game itself) are two sides same coin of the people who gripe that anyone who doesn't hate on the game 24/7 like they do is a "toxic boot licking corporate simp fanboy". It's not realistic and it's not healthy. If someone believes that anyone who doesn't praise the game 24/7 and leave every option as is is therefore "toxic"... smh

It's unfortunate that terms like "constructive criticism" has been watered down and even poisoned by legitimately hateful, unhappy, toxic people, but try to understand Hammer that just because someone has their own dislikes and critiques, it doesn't mean they hate the game and deserve the ban hammer. We all legitimately like or love this game, and we want what's best for it (in our own opinions). I can name 1,000 things I like about this game I'm sure, if you give me enough time - it's just human nature to find things to cherry pick. And again, if one doesn't like something, mods exist (for PC players; condolences to console users on this front), settings may exist, one can ignore it, etc.

Post automatically merged: Tuesday at 12:56 PM

Also at the end of the day, wanting the updates to be released sooner (when they'd likely be buggy messes) isn't going to change the outcome. It's far healthier to sit back and put your mind elsewhere for the time being.

 

[zztong]

sorry, that statement is/was not meant to imply ONLY console that wants faster development, at the same time, it is the PC base, on here, who excuse their self imposed deadlines being missed...and the lack of communication.

I didn't take it that way. I thought your statement was to be applied generally. I would agree that I do excuse self-imposed deadlines being missed and have adjusted to current levels of communication. Well, "excuse" isn't the right term. I'm not sure I see it as a fault that needs an excuse. It's their behavior and I don't take issue with it even if it can inconvenience me. Perhaps that's the best way to state my opinion.

I'd like to, but, the buck is supposed to stop at the boss's desk. So if by dev you mean Fataal and his contemporaries? I agree that they got put in a ackwatd position...their boss made promises they could not keep. at all. or does Dev include Rick and Joel? because I ain't letting them off the hook.

I hope that makes sense.

I think you state your opinion clearly. As I said, it must be nice for them to be their own stakeholder. I'm sure it's no picnic as their will be certain business realities such as needing revenue to pay employees and having to deal with upset customers. They missed an opportunity to make you and your friends happy. Perhaps they're eternal optimists, perhaps they're juggling competing interests, perhaps they prioritize tinkering.

You don't hold stock, so you can't really hang them on a hook. Out of curiosity, since you can't go back in time to persuade them, what would bring you peace?

Hey, I can understand deriving some satisfaction from harassment. Spectrum used to be my ISP and they ed me off pretty good, so much so that I can't help but remind them sometimes, such as when a salesman shows up at my door. My father put signs in the window of a van he bought that was a lemon suggesting he wasn't happy with the service of a local dealer. Is that where you're at?

 

[Dark Sun]

I do agree though that perhaps they could have not included the deadlines. That may or may not have been a Microsoft/Sony requirement though, who knows.

 

[Riamus]

they lied to get console to buy back in

So you believe. It is fine if you believe it, but it doesn't mean it is true.

Now, I was one of those who first complained about them switching to 1.0 instead of A22. I felt it would lead to confusion about the state of the game, which it has for many people. Maybe that change was because Sony or Microsoft wouldn't allow an "alpha" game on their console. That is my guess because it came out of nowhere shortly after they had already started the new dev diary titled A22. If it was their idea to change it, they would likely have waited to start that dev diary or else called it 1.0 from the start. Or maybe it was some other reason. Either way, I still think it was a bad choice. So I understand about why people expected the game to be either complete or close to completion, and are disappointed to learn that it isn't. But that isn't new at this point. It has been a year. Time to move on, I think.

 

[HammerDano]

So I understand about why people expected the game to be either complete or close to completion, and are disappointed to learn that it isn't. But that isn't new at this point. It has been a year. Time to move on, I think.

THIS...this is what drives me up the wall.
Don't tell me to get over being lied to...don't tell me to get over them not changing their behavior.

 

[HammerDano]

You don't hold stock, so you can't really hang them on a hook. Out of curiosity, since you can't go back in time to persuade them, what would bring you peace?

I do not know. If I had to dictate an apology or coordinate an appropriate gesture myself...it would not be very satisfying. how could it be?

PC have been right here the whole time
Console have not (because REASONS lol)...how fair would it be to suggest they should have given the current dlc to console only?
it would not...at the same time I do feel like telling console to cash in their 25% loyalty reward because the game won't be going on sale anytime soon and only giving us a month was a dick move. the game has been on sale for 30-40% off for most of the last year.

CLEARLY they don't think they owe us honest communication.

it would help

Hey, I can understand deriving some satisfaction from harassment. Spectrum used to be my ISP and they ed me off pretty good, so much so that I can't help but remind them sometimes, such as when a salesman shows up at my door. My father put signs in the window of a van he bought that was a lemon suggesting he wasn't happy with the service of a local dealer. Is that where you're at?

do you consider this harassment?

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

I wouldn't say this forum is characterized by folks patting each other on the back

The emoticons on this very thread tell me different. In fact, I see both "patting each other on the back" and attempted emotional manipulation/ostracization. ("Have a cookie. Face palm.") Hopefully, no one pays attention to questionable usage of the more arguably "fun" emoticons TFP themselves have picked and resist the urge to join a faction so as to keep their own powers of perception and thinking mind clear.

In my experience, there are exceptionally few destinations on the Internet where criticism is not immediately classified as hate and/or negativity for the sake of it. It would seem either we can't tell the difference as a species anymore or the pervasive "criticism is hate and bigotry" propaganda flooding the Internet is being used to subvert and shut down public perception and conversation on any topic. I'd wager on the latter and personally attribute the success of propagandistic manipulation of the so-called "masses" to the vast majority of the public misunderstanding concepts such as "separating the wheat from the chaff" as applicable to persons rather than ideas.

There is a rift in this community over a marked shift of direction in the game's development. That's just an unfortunate fact. I picked up on it first thing on arrival bacause irresolvable rifts have come to characterize every community imaginable. I can only hope that isn't (or stops) coloring people's impressions as to whether observations and criticisms about the game's development and direction are valid. It's hardly important in the grander scheme of things, but legitimate criticism is healthy for the game's development.

 

[zztong]

do you consider this harassment?

I don't know. That's kind of why I was asking. I'm trying not to "read between the lines" for fear of misinterpreting. I do recognize this is a recurring point on your part. I don't mean to imply I was trying to silence you. I guess I'd say I was just curious how you would characterize it.

The emoticons on this very thread tell me different. In fact, I see both "patting each other on the back" and attempted emotional manipulation/ostracization. ("Have a cookie. Face palm.") Hopefully, no one pays attention to questionable usage of the more arguably "fun" emoticons TFP themselves have picked and resist the urge to join a faction so as to keep their own powers of perception and thinking mind clear.

Like Reddit, there's folks who cheer for views that match their own and there are certainly sides to any discussion. Personally, I'm never really sure how to view being given a cookie. I like cookies. Are they a reward or an attempt to pacify my inner child? Does a laugh mean they're laughing with me or at me? I've no idea. It certainly is frustrating on Reddit to get downvoted for relaying accurate information about how POIs work. I really can't explain it.

There is a rift in this community over a marked shift of direction in the game's development. That's just an unfortunate fact. I picked up on it first thing on arrival bacause irresolvable rifts have come to characterize every community imaginable. I can only hope that isn't (or stops) coloring people's impressions as to whether observations and criticisms about the game's development and direction are valid. It's hardly important in the grander scheme of things, but legitimate criticism is healthy for the game's development.

While I can't put a finger on what the marked shift might be, I can agree completely with the sentiment about healthy discussion. I'd be fooling myself if I thought this forum was always thoughtful debate. But I do find it disturbing when somebody new shows up, drops a bomb of inaccurate, unfounded accusations and theories to support some outrage. I often wonder what they hope to accomplish other than to ruin somebody's day.

And then I think back to when I was younger, and I wonder if they're in a similar place as I have been. I didn't really have anything I was trying to accomplish. My poor emotional intelligence let my feelings rule me. It could imagine slights and demand satisfaction. I can still slip into that, but I work on it.

I would add I'm not trying to make this topic about me. I'm trying hard not to project attributes on others or incorrectly second-guess folks. It's just safer to speak of my own experiences rather than assume I know anyone that well. Ultimately, I hope folks find resolution.

 

[Krougal]

Aww gee, I think everyone would like faster development and to see them meet exact dates. Not everyone took the dates to be a contract. TFP's release habits are well established. You can interpret that as a defense of the Devs if you want, but I see it as an observation. I regret that perhaps you and your friends didn't know. I could certainly agree that more frequent communication might have helped.

I do admit I can have some sympathy for the Devs on matters of project management and software development. It is nice to be your own stakeholder. When I was a PM and a Software Engineer I didn't usually have that luxury. For some projects a slow and iterative approach would have been really handy.

"I love deadlines for the whooshing sound they make as they go past." - Probably every defense contractor ever.

I would consider scope creep the biggest offender throughout my career, and early access games by their very nature are going to see a lot of scope creep. It just can't be helped, happens. They have really done their best at keeping to their roadmap, even if I don't agree with a lot of their choices.

 

[HammerDano]

I don't know. That's kind of why I was asking. I'm trying not to "read between the lines" for fear of misinterpreting. I do recognize this is a recurring point on your part. I don't mean to imply I was trying to silence you. I guess I'd say I was just curious how you would characterize it.

I did not take that "negatively", appreciate you being specific, it saves guessing motivation.

I don't see it that way. I am not going after their other projects. My complaints are specific and valid. There's been no attempt to change my mind...so it will remain unchanged. that's where I am at. I hope that makes sense.

 

[HammerDano]

"I love deadlines for the whooshing sound they make as they go past." - Probably every defense contractor ever.

I would consider scope creep the biggest offender throughout my career, and early access games by their very nature are going to see a lot of scope creep. It just can't be helped, happens. They have really done their best at keeping to their roadmap, even if I don't agree with a lot of their choices.

that's the problem I have with them. the way the roadmap was presented implied they were FINISHING the game...they are not...they are still acting as if there is not an expected end in sight. they are still making it up as they go...that's mental.

the roadmap was a selling feature...they are acting as if it does not matter how long it takes them to provide what we were sold on.

 

[EvilPolygons]

You guys don't like that they changed the direction of the game, but, you have mods to fix it.
Ever think that some of the complaints are from the people who don't have mods to fix it?

No, actually, I don't spend time thinking about what consoles can and can't do, or who might or might not be on console. I haven't even owned one since the late 90's (PS1) so they just aren't part of my world.

If someone complains about a feature or bug, and I know of a mod that reverts or improves upon or fixes that that issue, then of course I'm going to share information on that mod. It sucks that consoles don't have access to mods, but there's nothing I can do about that.

You really sound like you're just angry and lashing out at anyone who isn't as angry as you.

 

[HammerDano]

No, actually, I don't spend time thinking about what consoles can and can't do, or who might or might not be on console. I haven't even owned one since the late 90's (PS1) so they just aren't part of my world.

If someone complains about a feature or bug, and I know of a mod that reverts or improves upon or fixes that that issue, then of course I'm going to share information on that mod. It sucks that consoles don't have access to mods, but there's nothing I can do about that.

You really sound like you're just angry and lashing out at anyone who isn't as angry as you.

cool...my comment was for the people who say or imply the modders will fix that. Not everything will be available to console. that's life. there is a balance in there somewhere.

If you read this as lashing out in a hateful manner...I'd suggest muting me.

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

I think everyone would like faster development and to see them meet exact dates

Personally, I don't want to see faster development and meeting exact dates foist upon any game development studio. That's why we get lauch date dumpster fires like Cyberpunk, which the actual developers told management required at least two more years development time. In a perfect world, studios could take all the time they need and release a game or update when it's good and ready for release. Of course, we don't live in a perfect world and budgets of both time and money are hard to come by, much less sufficient budgets. It's not hard to imagine the pressure cookers in which artists and developers are toiling, especially in the triple A space, if we've ever worked in a corporate environment. (Ugh.)

I think someone characterized the 2.0 update as an eleventh hour affair and honestly think that if it'd had more time in the oven, it might have been the complex, robust update most everyone appears to have been expecting, especially considering the partially implemented system in place earlier in development. I imagine most reasonably expected that to be fully implemented as opposed to replaced with recipes, badges and HUD messages.

I'm sure theories abound as to why it is as it is that may or may not be correct. We only know it could be vastly improved. Whether TFP has the time and money to improve it is an open question.