Dear TFP, What are you doing?

[Dark Sun]

Are people really surprised that the game is a genre mix with RPG, FPS, Towerdefense and Survival? That was clear since at least steam release in 2013. Which should also make it clear that it might lean into one of the genres more heavily than others. That was mentioned so many times over the years on pretty much every platform. You really didn´t need to pay much attention to know that.

Personally I joined ship back in A17, so I was already there after it had docked at the new island, heh. But yes, you do have a point. Again, maybe early access titles are not for these people. Never get married to any one mechanic or feature in an EA title, or a live service - it'll most likely get ripped out and replaced with something new, or altered (perhaps beyond recognition), eventually. But the game did shift more heavily into the RPG style over the years, so to those who are complaining, are mostly the hardcore survival fanatics.

 

[Bashtiks]

game has been going down the gutter since a16 ... only saving grace what is left for me are modders and server community ... tfp trying to recreate things from mods but in the end they somehow manage to make it even worse .. its like watching a toddlers trying to fix a car ... ignoring community and after wondering why ppl are staring to get toxic .. redoing game so it becomes more an more easy with each update, cause otherwise new generation snowflakes wont buy it cause they have zerro tollerance and attention spawn of fish ...
and its not even worth to go in details, the fun pimps lost their respect long time ago, now all thats left are only the pimps

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

@Bashtiks If you can´t bring your point across without being toxic, you have issues. Serious issues. No matter if they ignore you or not. Who in his right mind thinks insulting someone will make them listen?

 

[Kyoji]

Are people really surprised that the game is a genre mix with RPG, FPS, Towerdefense and Survival? That was clear since at least steam release in 2013. Which should also make it clear that it might lean into one of the genres more heavily than others. That was mentioned so many times over the years on pretty much every platform. You really didn´t need to pay much attention to know that.

That isn't the point. The issue is that some of the RPG elements added give little to nothing compared to the sandbox elements taken. Furthermore, it's the way they implement some of the RPG elements that draws criticism. Some just word it better than others. An example is the current progression system. You could already move from biome to biome if you wanted and they already had an incentive - loot stage bonuses. Furthermore, with the temperature system in place there were costs to advancing too fast as it would be far more challenging dealing with the food and water drain. TFP just did what they always do which was take 2 steps forward and 1 step back. The game is progressing, but they are fixing an issue that was fine previously and rather than simple tweaks they throw the baby out with the bath water and spend a year on something that should have taken a few months.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

The new biome badges are a mechanic that is intended to stop the rushing trough the game imo. And it´s working. There isn´t too many desert spitters. You went to the desert too early. It´s completly normal that you can´t just simply walk into the end game zone and get the good loot during the first hour of the game. Going into any biome was no problem at all. Sure living there wasn´t a good idea, but you could easily get some really good loot way too early in the game. I got iron tools very early a lot by just looting a few cars on the border of the wasteland, with basically no risk. Crafting a ton of first aid bandages on day 3? No problem, because getting aloe was a walk in the park. The temperature effects were a joke tbh, they never stopped me from getting tons of aloe on day 3 or entering the wasteland for some quick looting. Biome progresson wasn´t fine. It was too easy.

Sadly it´s poorly executed with a text checklist though.

 

[Ornias]

I started in alpha 12. Biome progression was solved by having the major cities crawling, and I mean crawling, with high tier enemies. That barrier felt natural and worked. They are finally adding stronger Z's in which should be enough of a barrier early on. The way they solved that in 2.0 with smoothies seems like an 11th hour cram session to get something out. They spent a year on this update and it just doesn't feel like they made any real progress on gameplay.

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

these forums are far, far, faaaaaar less toxic than Steam or Reddit

If by toxic you mean hateful due to the OPs mention of harsh criticism or the discussion about assigning nefarious motives to the devs, that's probably true. It doesn't fix the toxic positivity plauging these forums, though. That's a different issue altogether.

"Why don't you accept the game as it is and try an overhaul if you don't like it*," to paraphrase, doesn't address what people are perceiving, rightly or not, as TFP taking the easy way out by adding a few recipes to a game already overflowing with recipes; a boy scout badge that provides permanent magical immunity to biome effects; and messages to the HUD display to warn a storm is approaching rather than taking their time and developing a robust, complex weather and biome effects system along with compelling ways to offset those effects, which would likely take more than a year. That criticism is spread far and wide and is not hateful in the least, but rather respectful of the game and what it easily could be compared to what it is. Their reasons for implementing recipes and messages instead of a robust system are unbeknownst to us and, while the present system is not likely to change significantly, it is a valid criticism of the 2.0 update. There are quite a few decisions about this game TFP have made I'd have to agree haven't been throroughly thought-through for whatever reason, at least, which I'd assume includes considerations of time and money from a business perspective.

What gets on my nerves is the hackneyed expression "lazy development," thrown around everywhere over everything without offering any constructive criticism or suggestions for improvement. Way to say nothing about anything, especially "the devs'" work ethic.

*First, that assumes the poster doesn't like the game and would be better off not playing it. I had a someone tell me once that I should go play Minecraft on creative mode if I didn't like the game upon offering criticism. People often don't realize they're actively working against the developers' own interests -- namely, selling the game and having people play it -- when they make remarks like that or offer unsolicited advice for customizing (modding) the game to their liking. Let the criticism speak for itself and let TFP hear it. I honestly don't know how they even spot legitimate criticsm of the game when it's buried under such well-meaning, but ultimately detrimental policing of opinion.

 

[EvilPolygons]

If by toxic you mean hateful due to the OPs mention of harsh criticism or the discussion about assigning nefarious motives to the devs, that's probably true. It doesn't fix the toxic positivity plauging these forums, though. That's a different issue altogether.

By "toxic" I mean abusive. I really shouldn't have to explain to another adult why abusive language is unacceptable.

As far as fanboys go, sure, there are a couple of posters here that will bend over backwards to defend anything TFP does. But the vast majority of posters on this forum complain way too much to be considered fanboys, unless ones definition of a fanboy is "anyone who doesn't hate the devs."

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

@EvilPolygons For the toxic steam forum users not hating the devs is enough to consider you a fanboy.

 

[Bashtiks]

@Bashtiks If you can´t bring your point across without being toxic, you have issues. Serious issues. No matter if they ignore you or not. Who in his right mind thinks insulting someone will make them listen?

its been 8 years, bringing out the point here is pointLESS

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

its been 8 years, bringing out the point here is pointLESS

Being toxic is even more pointless. If you don´t understand that, you need help, You guys think because you are loud and toxic that you represent the majority of the player base or that being toxic will somehow make them listen to you, which is delusional. But looking at the player numbers, the majority is quite happy with the game or simply accepts that mods are the way to go if they don´t like something.

 

[zztong]

It doesn't fix the toxic positivity plauging these forums, though.

I read this forum more than Reddit or Steam mostly because we're more likely to get solid information here, sometimes directly from the Devs, and this is where folks with a long-term interest in the game hang out. I wouldn't say this forum is characterized by folks patting each other on the back. Everyone here has differences of opinion and would do something differently. Personally, I railed against the water changes. I argued myself to exhaustion on that issue.

Look at it this way... If you choose to stick around, you've fallen into a bottomless pit of iterative software development. You panic, you'll yell and scream. That's normal. You're falling and falling doesn't usually end well. After a few minutes you quit screaming because it isn't helping.

I would say long-term participants are more likely to develop a working relationship rather than a confrontational relationship. At work, if you're constantly railing against your co-workers you're not going to keep your job. It wouldn't matter if you were 'right.'

 

[Kyoji]

The new biome badges are a mechanic that is intended to stop the rushing trough the game imo. And it´s working. There isn´t too many desert spitters. You went to the desert too early. It´s completly normal that you can´t just simply walk into the end game zone and get the good loot during the first hour of the game. Going into any biome was no problem at all. Sure living there wasn´t a good idea, but you could easily get some really good loot way too early in the game. I got iron tools very early a lot by just looting a few cars on the border of the wasteland, with basically no risk. Crafting a ton of first aid bandages on day 3? No problem, because getting aloe was a walk in the park. The temperature effects were a joke tbh, they never stopped me from getting tons of aloe on day 3 or entering the wasteland for some quick looting. Biome progresson wasn´t fine. It was too easy.

Sadly it´s poorly executed with a text checklist though.

I am not disagreeing that it wasn't easy to cheese your way through some things. The biome badges are easy to get through so there isn't much progression regardless. Also, I think the issue was with POI design more than anything as people could smash through a block to get the items they want, etc. You can do similar things with smoothies and nerd pole to a T5 POI and get the loot. My point was more that expansions on the temperature system instead of developing a new system with it's own issues would have been faster and arguably better than what we have now. Even a simple re-working of the loot stage system to scale differently with biomes could have worked as you could have made the scaling dynamic based off week in-game where visiting the other biomes early only would matter on certain breakpoint loot stages where you might save yourself a day or two and then after week two the other biomes offer a bit better scaling. Either way what we have currently isn't good.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

They are also kinda easy, yes. But you need all biome badges before you can do the wasteland one. They do work, there is no more going to the desert on day one. Even if you manage to somehow get the burnt forest and desert badge on day one, the spitters will be a huge problem then. It helps a lot against rushing trough the game.

 

[theFlu]

It helps a lot against rushing trough the game.

I'm thinking it might be easier to rush to snow at this point; sure you'll deal with tough wildlife, but the frostclaws aren't much of an issue. Not day one, as you'll need to gather and spend time, but by day 3, probably. "Established and safe"? No, but grabbing some end loots might fix it.

That'll be what I try if I start another run ..

 

[Kyoji]

They are also kinda easy, yes. But you need all biome badges before you can do the wasteland one. They do work, there is no more going to the desert on day one. Even if you manage to somehow get the burnt forest and desert badge on day one, the spitters will be a huge problem then. It helps a lot against rushing trough the game.

It could work by adding a magical forcefield across the lands that open sequentially over time, but that isn't the issue. It is how the system is implemented that is the issue and is what people have been offering advice on. The idea is to think of ways that do something similar to what the developers desire - people to venture into other zones to progress, without all of the negative externalities associated with the current system.

 

[Riamus]

There in lies the problem. Where is the difference between harsh criticism and honesty, and just outright toxic behaviour? For many, there is no line, and it's a seamless transition from one side to the other.

Yeah, that's the problem. Too many people think it's fine to call people names, be disrespectful, be hateful, be rude, etc. They have apparently never learned that they can get their point across far more easily and with better results if they just say what they think without being toxic.

By "toxic" I mean abusive. I really shouldn't have to explain to another adult why abusive language is unacceptable.

As far as fanboys go, sure, there are a couple of posters here that will bend over backwards to defend anything TFP does. But the vast majority of posters on this forum complain way too much to be considered fanboys, unless ones definition of a fanboy is "anyone who doesn't hate the devs."

Exactly. Few people here are even remotely the definition of "fanboy". Every time I see people use that term, I just shake my head. It's become this idea to people that if someone doesn't agree with them when they denounce a game or developer or whatever that they are a fanboy. But that's not what it means. Very few people here (maybe not any) have been fully supportive of everything that has been added or changed in this game. We all criticize things regularly. What we don't do is become toxic about it. And we don't avoid giving our opinions about things other people say just because those opinions happen to support something. It seems the world has become a place where if you don't agree with someone, then you're attacking them. It's destroying the world.

its been 8 years, bringing out the point here is pointLESS

If that is the case, why are you hear? Just to be toxic? That is pointless.

 

[Dark Sun]

Yeah, that's the problem. Too many people think it's fine to call people names, be disrespectful, be hateful, be rude, etc. They have apparently never learned that they can get their point across far more easily and with better results if they just say what they think without being toxic.


Exactly. Few people here are even remotely the definition of "fanboy". Every time I see people use that term, I just shake my head. It's become this idea to people that if someone doesn't agree with them when they denounce a game or developer or whatever that they are a fanboy. But that's not what it means. Very few people here (maybe not any) have been fully supportive of everything that has been added or changed in this game. We all criticize things regularly. What we don't do is become toxic about it. And we don't avoid giving our opinions about things other people say just because those opinions happen to support something. It seems the world has become a place where if you don't agree with someone, then you're attacking them. It's destroying the world.


If that is the case, why are you hear? Just to be toxic? That is pointless.

After hearing recently about the lengths keyboard warriors will go to - not just attacking the update/the direction of the game or the devs (as bad as they [those actions] are, especially the latter), but fellow casual players, content creators. This "us versus them" tribalistic mentality is just downright awful to witness, and as you said, its killing this very fragile society we've built for ourselves. (One could argue it's all been built upon it in the first place, but I digress.) I'm sorry, but in my opinion, if you go out of your way to engage in these deplorable behaviours with no remorse, you don't really 'love' the game anymore - you're just ritualistically obsessed, and you desperately need to touch some grass and get medical treatment. 7 Days to Die has largely become the typical fanbase - rabid, self-absorbed, poisonous, arrogant, and cynical. It's honestly depressing to see.

Many will hate no matter what is put in front of them, even what they demand delivered to their exact specifications.

Regardless, they're not worth paying attention to. Don't feed the trolls, people. Focus on the positive, because lord knows we need more of it right now.

Edit: One of my previous posts stated that people are allowed to feel angry, resentful, etc. I want to clarify I do not condone toxic behaviour. Rather, my intent with that expression is people are allowed to feel whatever they want to feel - joy, apathy, disgust, anger, anything in-between or elsewhere, we're all human at the end of the day. What matters the most however, in my opinion, is behaviour and intent.

 

[HammerDano]

good grief...some of you regularly say that you plan on turning off ALL of the new content...you think because you say it with a smile isn't insulting?

From my point of view, it seems there have been a lot of these threads for complaining about the complainers, that just don't acknowledge how negative you lot are.

You guys don't like that they changed the direction of the game, but, you have mods to fix it.
Ever think that some of the complaints are from the people who don't have mods to fix it?

You guys don't like the complaints about the slow development...they are valid. TFP put out a ropadmap WITH DATES to sell the game to console. Why are you surprised we want them met?

all dates subject to change does not mean IN MY OWN SWEET TIME. (to most reasonable people)

which is the attitude we get back on here...not from TFP... it's from you.

 

[Dark Sun]

good grief...some of you regularly say that you plan on turning off ALL of the new content...you think because you say it with a smile isn't insulting?

From my point of view, it seems there have been a lot of these threads for complaining about the complainers, that just don't acknowledge how negative you lot are.

You guys don't like that they changed the direction of the game, but, you have mods to fix it.
Ever think that some of the complaints are from the people who don't have mods to fix it?

You guys don't like the complaints about the slow development...they are valid. TFP put out a ropadmap WITH DATES to sell the game to console. Why are you surprised we want them met?

all dates subject to change does not mean IN MY OWN SWEET TIME. (to most reasonable people)

which is the attitude we get back on here...not from TFP... it's from you.

I will say that some of this mentality comes from some people not liking change, not giving things a college try, so forth. But what matters is each person curates the game to their personal specifications on what they find enjoyable - thank goodness mods exist, and we have so many in-game options built in, to boot. Coming from my perspective at least, it's not coming from a place of being deliberately insulting at all - it's just that if I find something, for one reason or another, doesn't add to my personal experience, I can install a mod / change a setting to remove it, expand upon it, whatever floats my boat.

People complaining about x features when they have the option to mod them out, or even turn them off in-game, will never cease to confuse me, however. The amount of people complaining about storms and biome progression (not from a place of wanting to see them be improved, but they hate the concept period) when the options are literally right there baffles me. The people complaining that said toggles exist though... Oh boy...

I do agree however that the attitude is often nothing to be desired, referencing my point in my post above about behaviour and intent mattering most at the end of the day.