PC Dead is dead

I don't understand.

You get the same bloodmoon horde as someone who does not play DID but does not die so no change there.

You want the game to be somehow easier without lowering the game difficulty so DID is supposed to be less of a challenge?

 
I don't understand.
You get the same bloodmoon horde as someone who does not play DID but does not die so no change there.

You want the game to be somehow easier without lowering the game difficulty so DID is supposed to be less of a challenge?
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No, my main issue was the fact that not dying makes the gamestage higher than someone who plays with "infinite lives", so what incentive is there to stay alive?

Infinite lives: only penalty is a short debuff, but they get easier BM hordes.

DID (or not dying) get: no reward, only risk, and the difficulty keeps getting worse.

It seems to me that the game is now designed to encourage you to die to keep it balanced?

 
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No, my main issue was the fact that not dying makes the gamestage higher than someone who plays with "infinite lives", so what incentive is there to stay alive?
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Yeah, but that's not true.

Not dieing in a DID game is in no way different from not dieing in a non-DID game.

You are implying that everyone who does not play DID intentionally and repeatedly dies in order to lower the GS and that is not my experience.

If the players skill is high enough, they get the exact same experience.

If you want an easier game, lower the game difficulty. That also lowers the gamestage multiplier.

 
And here we get to the real complaint. A17 is harder. It should not be nerfed because of your ego.
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Well different to your opinion his ego follow a natural law.

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I don't understand.
You get the same bloodmoon horde as someone who does not play DID but does not die so no change there.

You want the game to be somehow easier without lowering the game difficulty so DID is supposed to be less of a challenge?
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Well, if you still run arround with Orange unmodded weapons without mods and with no Skillpoints in Battle skills its a bit .... unbalanced to have rooms full of green glowing running zombies that nearly onehit you

(is there a chance for glasses (like the nerd ones) but with -100% XP)

 
Yeah, but that's not true.
Not dying in a DID game is in no way different from not dying in a non-DID game.
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DID and not dying are one and the same surely? I really don't see what you mean here?

YYou are implying that everyone who does not play DID intentionally and repeatedly dies in order to lower the GS and that is not my experience.
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Correct me if I am wrong but isn't it: gamestage = (your level + days alive) x difficulty setting multiplier ?

So if this is true, then yes, you are penalised with a harder experience for staying alive are you not?

Maths is not my strongpoint, so perhaps I am wrong.

 
This is a strange thread, I sometimes play DID for the tension and difficulty challenge, so personally I want the irradiated cops and spiders to show day 7 for the harder experience. I want the game to try and kill me and put me in difficult situations that I have to workout from, that is the meaning of survival for me.

It seems many ppl find 7dtd difficult and not lowering BM on death could end in a death spiral for them. From what I've seen on streams and YT videos, I don't think most ppl are dying intentionally just to lower BM.

But OP's idea of a days alive buff is interesting, nothing game breaking, maybe staying alive theoretically we get to know the traders longer so tie it with the Better Barter perk, days alive gives slight increasing discount. Might give more incentive to play to survive rather than being reckless.

 
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It's funny, that's the first time I've heard the idea of a "survive buff" mentioned but it's a clever idea.

Thing is TFP vision of a "survive buff" is to make the game stage actually harder as from what I gather the game gets harder the longer you don't die in terms of game stage. So I don't feel very hopeful that something like a survive buff is coming as it clashes with the design philosophy, if that's what they're going for.

 
Playing dead-is-dead seems to have huge penalties in the current state of the game. Yes, I know this is Alpha and know its experimental, but I felt I needed to say something about this from a dead-is-dead gamer perspective.
I keep reading about people crying that the horde night is too easy... I see videos showing very easy 7 and 14 day hoards... but then they show their scoreboard and they have died multiple times!

I presume this is why their horde nights are so much easier?!

As I understand it, the game stage gets harder/higher if you don't die, as in a way the game 'wants you to die'.

But I don't understand the thinking behind this as even though the game is called "7 days to die" it is marketed as a survival game...

I play on normal settings, with no cheats on and if I die I start again. I have 820 hours in the game, all played this way, so I am not a nooby player, but I am really finding the horde nights difficult to get through without dying.

Please, devs, consider adding a bonus/buff/incentive to staying alive in this game. I know there is a temporary debuff to those who die, but dead-is-dead really needs some love too.

Penalising us by making the horde nights harder (as we don't die multiple times during normal gameplay) seems very unfair to me :(

Edit: on my 7 day horde I got irradiated zombie cops, irradiated spider zombies, etc etc etc!!!
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With the new system you are going to have a REALLY hard time with everything if you play this way, let me explain why; the devs have buffed EVERYTHING. The reason you got such tough zombies during the day 7 horde is your game score, now as a veteran player myself (500+ hours), I rarely die, so my game score is usually pretty high, just like you. The problem with your play style with the new update it is going to become EXTREMELY difficult for you to play. Everything you face including your hordes are based on your game score, and since you refuse to die the horde you will face are going to be MUCH harder then any other player. Now I’m not saying you should go out of your way to die, but you should probably accept a death here and there, because if you don’t your hordes are just going to get harder and harder. If that’s your horde by day 7 (which was about what mine was as well), then you can imagine your later hordes won’t be pretty. Anyways there are other ways to keep your game score down if you REALLY don’t want to die, the main way is simply to avoid killing zombies, however that severely limits the amount of you could gain. Anyways that’s just my advice, I wish you the best of luck!

 
It's funny, that's the first time I've heard the idea of a "survive buff" mentioned but it's a clever idea.
Thing is TFP vision of a "survive buff" is to make the game stage actually harder as from what I gather the game gets harder the longer you don't die in terms of game stage. So I don't feel very hopeful that something like a survive buff is coming as it clashes with the design philosophy, if that's what they're going for.
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Yes the GS gets harder but we unlock perks to get stronger. So instead of it being a survival buff, tie it into perks. I just stated Better Barter on top of my head as example, but it gives incentive to not die and it would solve the level gate tedium. U die, the discount resets to zero....i can hear the hate coming aleady "How dare u remove the trader discount I worked so hard to earn, I have only 1hours game time u know...."

But still, it's an interesting idea, would be a different game mechanic to play with, level gates are annoying.

 
what do you mean penalized with a harder gamestage?

If i were playing temple run, I'd be bored out of my skull if the game never got harder.

You are REWARDED with a higher gamestage for not dying. Gamestage is the representation of your progress to and through content. Dying is PENALIZED by a reduction in gamestage, making it take so much longer to get to those top end zombies and the sense of accomplishment that comes with successfully defending against them.

I think your issue is that you view less challenge as a reward. And MORE confusing, is that you expect to recieve LESS challenge in return for overcoming challenges earlier in the game. Not dying in the game can be challenging. If you successfully "don't die," then you progress to higher gamestages and harder zombies, because increasing challenge when you overcome challenge is how games are designed.

Once more, the reduced gamestage for dying is a penalty, not a reward.

The only thing I wish would happen is that the high end special and irradiated zombies had higher chance for/better loot, but even that feels redundant with the fact that i don't need to keep looting identical guns and weapons to continue to repair mine at top quality.

 
what do you mean penalized with a harder gamestage?
Once more, the reduced gamestage for dying is a penalty, not a reward.
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In this game, besides anything creativity-related, survival should be the sole reward because every incentive, item, perk revolves around it.

The playerLevel factor is something to tune the difficulty according to the character's strength.

The daysAlive factor is something to further tune the difficulty according to the player's "skill".

Surely, it's to keep the game interesting and not too punishing. But it's certainly not a reward and it can feel like a penalty. It must exist though, but I am just hoping that when other things get sorted out, "days" will be a part of the equation again, so that these two variables become a little less of a factor for a softer scaling.

Edit: Oh and something else - players should NEVER have to think or be concerned about a meta GS number while playing.

 
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I think the game should save every morning after horde night, Bringing you back to latest week at death. This way you are punished hard, but you can do things differently to avoid, or reach a gamestage that is INSANELY difficult and that you try every now and then..
What do you think ?
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That or get rid of the "days alive" in the gamestage formula.

No more dead is dead punishment. You might have to bump difficulty setting up to make it interesting.

I no longer have any hesitation of modify anything and everything that annoys me. Still experimenting as some of my ideas turn out... meh.

My latest is dropping base gun damage a lot and giving huge damage multiplier to head shots to simulate a proper zombie game :)

 
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Some really good responses here now and very interesting reading :D

I guess I have finally managed to explain myself better lol!!

I totally agree, a days alive buff, or better loot drops from our DID boosted gamestage zombies, or get rid of the "days alive" part of the gamestage formula, or long-life trader discounts etc etc all great ideas. :D

I hope the devs consider adding something as a bonus to staying alive, as it is a survival game afterall, trying to survive is the aim of the game :)

It makes me sad to see all these people posting how easy the game is and how easy BM hordes are when they have died dozens of times and the game is recognising they have died a lot, so makes it easier for them. Seems a little 'off' to me at least. Not balanced that well to me anyway. I see them moan about the death debuff, but not much moaning about the easier ride they are getting in the game as a result of dying ;) Well I expect a lot of the posts saying its boring or easy are from people who die a lot? ;)

But, as everyone always reminds us, it is in Alpha and it is experimental, hopefully the devs will come up with a better system to calculate gamestage :)

 
You were provided a link to a twitch streamer who is playing insane, always run, did. It’s a 2 player coop game. Last I checked they made it to 29 days. A17 changed how you need to build your bases.

 
Rather than a reward for staying alive, can we get a participation medal for trying to stay alive.
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Damn millenials! Why back in my day just surviving was it's own reward, we were thankful when we did survive and we didn't ask for nothing from nobody, no sir.

LMAO

 
In this game, besides anything creativity-related, survival should be the sole reward because every incentive, item, perk revolves around it.
The playerLevel factor is something to tune the difficulty according to the character's strength.

The daysAlive factor is something to further tune the difficulty according to the player's "skill".

Surely, it's to keep the game interesting and not too punishing. But it's certainly not a reward and it can feel like a penalty. It must exist though, but I am just hoping that when other things get sorted out, "days" will be a part of the equation again, so that these two variables become a little less of a factor for a softer scaling.

Edit: Oh and something else - players should NEVER have to think or be concerned about a meta GS number while playing.
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Exactly, its a game about survival. It's also an endless game. The staple feature of pretty much EVERY endless game out there is to make the game harder and harder until you lose...eventually. And the goal is to see how far you get.

This game's goal is to kill you....if the zombies fail to kill you, they will get harder. If they continue to fail to kill you, they will get harder still. It's in the game design. If you are NOT dying, you will face harder challenges than someone on the same difficulty settings if they have died...as it should be. they died, you didn't, so the game gets easier for them since they couldn't handle it and clearly you could.

The game is ABOUT surviving. If you survive, you're doing it right, and so the game ramps up the challenge to keep you engaged and interested. If you fail to survive, the game doesn't advance the difficulty and is thus comparatively easier. If you kill yourself to get easier blood moons, then not only do you deal with all of the given death penalties, but you're missing the core concept of the game.

It's like playing tag and getting yourself tagged on purpose so that you can rest and not run for a bit. Yeah, its easier that way, but your missing the point of the game...it doesn't mean the game needs to be changed, but maybe watch/play with people whose gameplay style reflects your own? - the same as you would in a game of tag with similar circumstances.

 
Exactly, its a game about survival. It's also an endless game. The staple feature of pretty much EVERY endless game out there is to make the game harder and harder until you lose...eventually. And the goal is to see how far you get.
This game's goal is to kill you....if the zombies fail to kill you, they will get harder. If they continue to fail to kill you, they will get harder still. It's in the game design. If you are NOT dying, you will face harder challenges than someone on the same difficulty settings if they have died...as it should be. they died, you didn't, so the game gets easier for them since they couldn't handle it and clearly you could.

The game is ABOUT surviving. If you survive, you're doing it right, and so the game ramps up the challenge to keep you engaged and interested. If you fail to survive, the game doesn't advance the difficulty and is thus comparatively easier. If you kill yourself to get easier blood moons, then not only do you deal with all of the given death penalties, but you're missing the core concept of the game.

It's like playing tag and getting yourself tagged on purpose so that you can rest and not run for a bit. Yeah, its easier that way, but your missing the point of the game...it doesn't mean the game needs to be changed, but maybe watch/play with people whose gameplay style reflects your own? - the same as you would in a game of tag with similar circumstances.
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I am not disagreeing in general. I believe it is something that it's needed, even if I never was a fan of scaling. But the correlation between these two variables and difficulty is too ridig - the game, in a way, "pampers" your needs, if you will, and feels less like you are a living world. That's why I would also like a third variable in the mix, global time, with a small degree of factor strength, so that the game adapts to you and your character more "softly".

 
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