PC Cooking has now become obsolete

A theoretical one, yes, but not a practical.
If you decided not to start own food production but to rely on cans, don't eat found stews, especially if it is your last piece of food, otherwise you could counter food poisoning with more food.

So the possibilities left where you REALLY need vitamins are so really little cornercases...
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I didn't say no food production.... I'm referring to limited food production. Just enough to produce a stew or 2 every now and then. Vitamins would be very useful. Like I said, different ways of playing. Vitamins may not be useful to you, but they will be to someone.

 
I didn't say no food production.... I'm referring to limited food production. Just enough to produce a stew or 2 every now and then. Vitamins would be very useful. Like I said, different ways of playing. Vitamins may not be useful to you, but they will be to someone.
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Only useful to inexperienced players. Anyone who has any experience with the game can get by without any issue without using vitamins.

While vitamins have a function, they are effectively useless because the instance where vitamins are useful can be easily bypassed.

Also, sham sandwiches now only have one function....to make moldy bread. I think TFP need to get rid of that "legacy nonsense" to help the game run smoother. XD

 
Only useful to inexperienced players. Anyone who has any experience with the game can get by without any issue without using vitamins.
While vitamins have a function, they are effectively useless because the instance where vitamins are useful can be easily bypassed.

Also, sham sandwiches now only have one function....to make moldy bread. I think TFP need to get rid of that "legacy nonsense" to help the game run smoother. XD
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You could say the same thing about a lot of things.... you can easily get by without NVG, does that mean they're useless?

Vitamins have a use.... they are a convenience that you can chose to forego. That does not make them effectively useless.

 
You could say the same thing about a lot of things.... you can easily get by without NVG, does that mean they're useless?
Vitamins have a use.... they are a convenience that you can chose to forego. That does not make them effectively useless.
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If I have a machine that puts my hat on my head for me, but with minimal effort I can place my hat on my head myself it would make that machine effectively useless. While, yes, it does have a use, the task that it completes can be done another way, with minimal effort (and likely more reliably) which would mean the machine isn't needed and effectively useless.

The same is for vitamins in game, because the food poisoning mechanic is too simplistic.

And what in the world is NVG....

 
If I have a machine that puts my hat on my head for me, but with minimal effort I can place my hat on my head myself it would make that machine effectively useless. While, yes, it does have a use, the task that it completes can be done another way, with minimal effort (and likely more reliably) which would mean the machine isn't needed and effectively useless.
The same is for vitamins in game, because the food poisoning mechanic is too simplistic.

And what in the world is NVG....
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NVG = Night vision googles. Once again.... saying its effectively useless to you, does not make it effectively useless. The very fact that someone else (me, in this case) says that its not effectively useless to them means that it has use.

It's ok to disagree.

 
NVG = Night vision googles. Once again.... saying its effectively useless to you, does not make it effectively useless. The very fact that someone else (me, in this case) says that its not effectively useless to them means that it has use.
It's ok to disagree.
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I still feel you are not understanding what I'm saying.

Effectively useless =/= Useless

Effectively useless = the purpose/task for the item is used can easily be done by other means and that item has no other use than the singular task for which it was made.

Useless = the item has no use at all.

Are you saying that keeping your food up is so difficult that having vitamins makes playing the game easier? Because that is what you are arguing.

I'm saying that vitamins have a use, yes, but the only task they serve can easily be accomplished by other, more reliable (since you can't count on having vitamins at all times) means.....therefore having vitamins is inconsequential, as well as the effect they provide, which makes them.... effectively useless.

But I guess, yes, there are people who won't be able to find ways around "needing" to use vitamins.....but I feel sorry for them and their problem solving abilities.

 
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I still feel you are not understanding what I'm saying.
Effectively useless =/= Useless

Effectively useless = the purpose/task for the item is used can easily be done by other means and that item has no other use than the singular task for which it was made.

Useless = the item has no use at all.

Are you saying that keeping your food up is so difficult that having vitamins makes playing the game easier? Because that is what you are arguing.

I'm saying that vitamins have a use, yes, but the only task they serve can easily be accomplished by other, more reliable (since you can't count on having vitamins at all times) means.....therefore having vitamins is inconsequential, as well as the effect they provide, which makes them.... effectively useless.

But I guess, yes, there are people who won't be able to find ways around "needing" to use vitamins.....but I feel sorry for them and their problem solving abilities.
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Uh, no that is not what I'm saying..... there is a middle ground between "needing" to use vitamins and vitamins being "effectively useless".

 
Effectively useless = the purpose/task for the item is used can easily be done by other means and that item has no other use than the singular task for which it was made.
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So canned food is effectively useless by your definition.

Canned food has no other use than to feed the player. Check

Feeding the player can easily be done with meat, vitamins and sandwiches, and some barfing. Check.

 
So canned food is effectively useless by your definition.
Canned food has no other use than to feed the player. Check

Feeding the player can easily be done with meat, vitamins and sandwiches, and some barfing. Check.
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Incorrect, because canned food can feed the player without the barfing since it has 0% food poisoning chance. You're saving a whole step there! :p

I'd say the definition of 'effectively useless' is 'this item's use case is so narrow or so niche that the circumstances in which it is useful will probably never come up for the average player.' So far as vitamins go... yeah, I can kinda see that. Food isn't exactly hard to come by, and if you bother cooking the food it typically has a low enough food poisoning chance that you shouldn't worry much about it. Where I can see vitamins edging into 'useful' territory is for people who play on extremely low loot percentages who also don't farm, since food is going to be quite rare then, but that is, to go back to my own definition, a niche case.

Other examples of 'effectively useless' in my mind would be the blunderbuss and the stun baton.

 
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Cooking has become obsolete... well, really I think it’s the same.

I’m still mainly cooking bacon and eggs and don’t bother with anything else. Nothing has changed in that regard. You can get enough vitamins to eat it quite regularly without worry too... if it even does make you worry.

Only real issue is that all this work has gone into useless recipes... but I’m sure that problem will be solved soon.

 
This is a survival game. Part of the fun is the struggle. No struggle = no fun.
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"If everyone in the world pointed to where "UP" was, they would all be right and wrong at the same time!" -Al (the great and powerful... yet humble).

Fun is what a person says it is, and it can change from moment to moment!

So, how to make this game fun for as many people as possible would be good both financially and for players?

Step 1: Include as many options to the game as possible.

Step 2: Refer to step 1.

 
So, how to make this game fun for as many people as possible would be good both financially and for players?Step 1: Include as many options to the game as possible.

Step 2: Refer to step 1.
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I agree with the basic idea behind that, absolutely. That said though, I'd insert "realistically" between "as" and "possible" in Step 1 there. Each option comes with a cost, the cost of coding for it, and perhaps even more expensively, the cost of testing and balancing it. It's not an automatic "option it, because we can" sort of thing.

Same with food spoilage - to do it, the Pimps have to code it, balance it and support it - so I expect they'll only do it, if they really wanna (and then I'll mod it out... hehe).

 
"If everyone in the world pointed to where "UP" was, they would all be right and wrong at the same time!" -Al (the great and powerful... yet humble).
Fun is what a person says it is, and it can change from moment to moment!

So, how to make this game fun for as many people as possible would be good both financially and for players?

Step 1: Include as many options to the game as possible.

Step 2: Refer to step 1.
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BS. Sure options are great, but if they take so much time that other features get neglected, options are worse.

I'd rather have 10 games that do a specific thing brilliantly than 10 that do everything a bit.

A SURVIVAL game should make you struggle for SURVIVAL. That is part of the genre.

Thats like putting out a drivers game where you can choose to let the A.I. drive for you. (OH WAIT...*)

So some extra features are nice. As are options. But either its a survival game or not.

You cant make a shooter without guns, a fighting game with just dialogue, ...

"If everyone in the world pointed to where "the core of the earth" was, they would all be right even if their direction differed!" -nobody

To explain:

"UP" is so generic... that would be as if 7d2d was just "A GAME". Obviously everyone has different opinions on what a good game is.

BUT "Survival" is a direction. And even if you are on the other side of the earth, "Survival" is still the same, even if slightly tilted from your/my view.

*that was in reference to that on relatively modern game where oyu could actually do that and the A.I. would win everything for you... don't know the name tho

 
A SURVIVAL game should make you struggle for SURVIVAL. That is part of the genre.

[...]

"Survival" is still the same, even if slightly tilted from your/my view.
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For me core of the survival genre is environmental survival. You need to drink, you need food, you need heat if it is cold, you need cooling when it is hot, you need rest (stamina). Maybe water and food is affected by weather, early winter might destroy your crops before harvesting. Then you might get a struggle surviving in winter because of low food. Maybe even you are forced to move your location because of environmental changes.

That doesn't mean you have always fight for food and are nearly starving all the time, but imho also in midgame and endgame it should be possible for situations to occur that make it a temporarily struggle again. (But maybe such things come with the event-system?) Just plant a huge enough garden, maybe even oversize it as it takes no maintenance at all, harvesting is quick and the harvested stuff doesn't even spoil, and nothing unexpected can happen (like crop failure, infestation, lack of water, heat, cold, moving radiation clouds, ...) has nothing to do with "survival".

The Bloodmoon basically has nothing to do with "survival". It's just towerdefense or... is there a special name for genres you fight just enemies coming in waves? Or would you call Doom or Killing Floor "survival"?

So yes, i'd say too, 7 days to die goes away from survival and becomes more like a loot-shooter. It's still a crossover with survival-aspects, but they have become minor. Figth through POIs for loot and "survive" bloodmoon is not "survival". That doesn't mean i don't like it, i do.

Basically if you turn off bloodmoon, then you see what's left in the game what is true survival.... and it is obviously not much.

 
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i think all advance foods you cook up should give you more boost (note not foods that are just made with 5 meat)

50+ stamian

50+ HP

damage resistance

Regeneration

and others

 
[...]
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don't get me wrong! I Feel like its more of a looter shooter now as well.

All I wanted to say is that options to turn off core features, like the horde (which is still pretty much the biggest threat in the game, one which is reoccuring, scaling and basicially the only thing you are working towards) is not something that they should actively work towards. YES some options are nice... but why would you play a survival horde game when you don't like survival, nor the horde mechanic.

The game doesnt look very pretty (well it does for voxel) it doesnt offer anything new really when you take out the survival and the horde...

 
The game doesnt look very pretty (well it does for voxel) it doesnt offer anything new really when you take out the survival and the horde...
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I wouldn't say that. There are only a few games with a good building system and 7 Days to die is one of them.

It is also often described as a better Minecraft with zombies. So if you like the Minecraft part but don't like the zombies, just turn off the zombies.

 
don't get me wrong! I Feel like its more of a looter shooter now as well.All I wanted to say is that options to turn off core features, like the horde (which is still pretty much the biggest threat in the game, one which is reoccuring, scaling and basicially the only thing you are working towards) is not something that they should actively work towards. YES some options are nice... but why would you play a survival horde game when you don't like survival, nor the horde mechanic.

The game doesnt look very pretty (well it does for voxel) it doesnt offer anything new really when you take out the survival and the horde...
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well guns are always fun to play with and i kinda like the guning. but i do wish that they UP the survival parts. like food rotting , water sources being contaminated, Dangerous infections , more harsh addiction's , Radiation , More zombie Sup types etc and yes i think that special foods should give special effects

 
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