I don't disagree with that train of thought perse I just wonder how this will affect them in the long run, public image is very important, and if you alienate a massive portion of your fanbase albeit a smaller part of it (4m on consoles 6m on pc) it will hurt your image. Look at bethesda, 76 was a major blow to their image because they cant stop lying, no man's sky was another example of a dev talking too much for their own good, the issue we have with tfp is the opposite. If you add up all the time they've actually talked about the console version on any live stream it's less than 2 minutes, and one of those was "be patient or buy the pc version" which is not an actual answer. Let alone helpful at all. I mean heck remember clare? Our liaison on the console side, she knew how to communicate and now all we have are people attempting to shut down discussion. Yeah some of these threads are useless but the pc side of the forums are littered with repeat threads and less than productive conversations. What this has boiled down to is certain mods deeming console players unallowed to discuss the situation lest it make tfp look bad but what's hurting them worse are these people getting butthurt when we talk about it, for example look how they reacted to someone just wanting tfp to take another look at the console version. Maybe jades ideas are improbable but we won't know by speculation. They need to take a long hard look and really attempt to explain what they can and cant do.
PC console updates rethink - sign petition
- Thread starter jade plays games
- Start date
SylenThunder
Community Moderator / IT Guru
Let's do some math.
TFP likely got about 5% from every sale. After Sony and Microsoft got theirs.
So the game goes for $30.
Sony and Microsoft take their $3 from the sale.
5% of $27 is $1.35
$1.35 times 4 million is 5.4 million dollars.
(Also note that after paying publishing fees to Sony/MS and costs to IG, TellTale was likely losing money on this title and not making a single dime.)
Now the rights for the console version assets ran up to 10 million dollars, and were purchased by another party.
It cost TFP presumably at least 10 million dollars plus lawyer fees to get the console rights back.
So at this point TFP is in the hole for around 5 million on the console version. That's in the red.
To continue to work on anything for the current console version it will cost several million more.
TFP is not a large AAA company with a bottomless budget. They're an indie group that just lost several million dollars of development funding in order to hold onto the console version so they can continue work on it later after they finish their main title.
You dont take the percentage out of the remainder, 30% of $30 is 9 dollars, 5% of $30 is $1.50, $1.50x4 million is 6 million as stated before, next up is the claim that telltale was losing money on this game when in actuality it was their 2nd highest earning game, after the walking dead season one. Lastly you put forth the assumption that someone else purchased the rights when they actually say in the post on these forums that they got them back at auction. And the last little bit I have to wonder about is how much were they paid for the console rights to begin with, you put forth that the rights for SOME games ran up to 10 million however we cannot say for certain how much 7dtd sold for as it was never listed on the auction listings, before or after, the rights for some games (the walking dead, batman) likely ran up that high but without word from them directly we cannot say for certain, the only reason I know it was never on the auction listings was because we checked, many of us were talking about starting a GoFundMe to help them buy them back. This means the rights were never up for auction and could possibly have been sold directly to another or to tfp.
Laz Man
Fun Pimps Staff
Honestly what more is there to be said that hasnt already? I watched all of the A19 dev streams recently and every explanation from Rick has seened very forth coming and genuine to what happened, why and next steps...
...either folks havent seen his responses or simply are in denial and havent moved on yet...
Maybe someone needs to edit all of his responses into one easy to watch video for those who missed it for easy reference.
The only video I've seen even close to it was the first response, however my point was they need to actually break it down piece by piece so they themselves can see what needs done, the beat comment I saw on one of their streams was that they should play it on console, just to get a feel for what we have to work with.
SylenThunder
Community Moderator / IT Guru
I'm sorry but after this, you've lost all credibility. It's a known fact that the bid for the 7 Days assets ran to 10 million. It was listed in the auction, and we were checking on it's status regularly the whole time it was up for auction. It's a known fact that they were purchased by another party, and TFP had to get the assets from that third party after the auction. We don't know the specifics on who the third party was, but this was all discussed openly at the time with as much information as the lawyers would allow to be public.
You guys are just here to argue, and aren't really bringing anything useful to the discussion anymore. I'm tempted to just shut the whole console section down completely, but as you are aware, that would be a huge disservice to the community that still cares.
In the end, nothing is going to change. The facts are the facts, and either you learn how to accept them, or go find something else to do.
I lost credibility? You cant do math! And you expect anyone to take you seriously!? You have now changed your story from some games assets ran up to 10m to now 7dtds assets ran up to that, you really want to push console players away? You pc guys shouldn't even be on this side of the forums the console guys aren't allowed to ask about the console version on the pc side, you are easily the most worthless mod these forums have and now that I proved you cant do basic grade school math I'm the one who cant accept reality? We arent bringing anything useful what are you doing? You've done nothing for the last 2 years but cry whenever anyone dares talk bad about tfp, you are the most immature person in these forums even the guys saying they deserve refunds have more tact. You've thrown insane numbers around saying "it'd cost millions to update this game" when that's categorically false $40k isn't millions, I made several suggestions, so did the OP and you and roland both responded with nothing but dismissal you are mods unless were breaking rules please do us all a favor and go away. You're the reason there's so much animosity from the console side of this whole mess.
SylenThunder
Community Moderator / IT Guru
No, You are the one that said some assets.
Here is what I said.
And the only part of my math that I got wrong was taking the 5% out after Sony/MS pulled their share instead of before.
That amounted to a whopping difference of 500k.
So if I stand corrected on that, then TFP is only in the hole by 4+ million instead of 4.5+ million.
And where the hell do you get 40k for a console update from? That's close to what it would cost for one single dev from Iron Galaxy. Nowhere near what a full contract with a dedicated team would cost. It also doesn't count the lawyer fees or costs for finding another publisher. We're not talking about something like Sixty Second Shoter here. This is a very complex game with heavy hardware requirements.
You're a day and a half behind 40k is what it costs to update a game on console, not including dev cost, no one said they had to rehire iron galaxy in fact had you bothered to read this thread you'd see I suggested hiring a smaller company to do a small one time update to fix a few minor issues, in fact had you bothered to read this you'd have seen more than a little that most of my concern is the company losing alot of money if they dont fix this pr nightmare, and no your other mistake was saying 30% of $30 is $3 when it's actually $9, now percentages arent grade school math so I'll let you pass on that. The long and short of it is they arent in a contract with iron galaxy they can hire a small dev team to fix a few bugs and cherry picked quality of life stuff, this would be the most ideal outcome to improve their image in console players eyes most conaole players arent lurking forums so who do you think the players are blaming? Again this 100% ignores what I said about however much they were paid for the rights. There's no way it was less than 10m they wouldn't have paid that much to get them back otherwise. You were also VERY wrong when you said telltale was likely losing money on this game, if the game cant make a profit on console nobody would want the rights to it on console.
Outlaw_187
New member
I really hope you just said this as a frustrated reply.
Shutting down the console side would serve zero positive results.
Yes many of us are disappointed, yes many of us are pissed.
You do have a point, none of us are bringing anything to the table, per se. All of the posts on here are full of ideas to keep console alive, gripes, and nothing but pure speculations as to "the cost of this and the cost of that". The PC side is no different when you have the same 5-6 people flooding the forums with idiotic replies and stupid memes.
People just want answers, and not from speculative people, from actual staff at The Fun Pimps.
I am loyal to this game, started on console and am now on PC and loving it. I want nothing more than to see this game grow and succeed on all platforms.
It does feel like we were abandoned and I get the pimps are hard at work on PC and I appreciate that.
No matter what, not everyone is going to be pleased.
Would just be nice from time to time to hear from someone who matters, let us console folks know we aren't forgotten and obviously we still care since we are here posting stuff, even if the bulk of it is negative.
jade plays games
New member
your a mod acting like a totalitarian, you are not providing any proof yet claim to know it all? the only one arguing is you? people are just correcting your falsehoods, link us to where it was ever shown that 7 days assets were up for sale for 10 million? i have covered this for two years, i rang the insolvency company myself, i spoke to mike flutterby a respected games journalist in games business, who did a interview with the new tell tale game owners, and teh insolvency group too, they said they had never owned the rights since they picked up the telltale brand, no one had bought any rights, only rights liek stranded deep and the rest of telltales own ip were up, the rest went back to dc comics, walking dead etc, exactly like when joel stated they had cancelled their agreement with tell tale and they would get the rights reverted back to them right at the start of teh whole mess, that the rights simply reverted back to tfps, this was also confirmed by the insolvency agency who said that the auction did not even include the 7 days assets,
shutting the whole console section down? wow what a threat nice one,, when 4 million players are still playing your game? we have brought plenty of new things to discuss, its you that has been arrogant, and gaslighted a convo with your lack of knowledge on game business, you have been corrected in your maths, you have failed to deliver a single piece of evidence to back up your claims and since your so desperate to shut us down the onus is on you to provide the links to show us we are wrong, otherwise be quite and let people have a place to talk about this stuff, or maybe i need to start running a proper campaign all over social media since apparently we are not allowed to talk on the forums, no one has insulted the funpimps, nor you, we are just trying to get some clear answers
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jade plays games
New member
actually wildcard had to pay 40 million dollars settlement to trendy entertainment for lying about their creative director being behind ark, it resulted in teh first paid dlc for an early access game in dev, it also meant they ha dto cut huge deal with sony to get the game out quicker, AGAIN no one has any proof that funpimps have actually "brought" their rights, the wording by them has been its cost them money but according to sources the rights were never on sale, instead they mounted a case for rights to be reverted,Nef said:
open world voxel game do fine, pixark while has issues still has automation and 100 more creatures roaming around, just a many build locks as others etc portal knights, minecraft, and yes space engineers has issues on xbox but again the devs are working on them (its not even out on ps4) ark and conan are extremely taxing games all pen world games are weather they use unreal or unity, the point is that dedicated companies can get these game to perform adequately, and thats all anyone wants, console players will accept so many issues if it means they get teh same content as pc,
you seem desperate to wave around that you play on great pc and are not actually talking about whats really important, do you think players should have to purchase a game twice? when pc players payed one lower price for teh game, do you think its ok to not list on console stores that the game is 3 years out of date and doesn't contain teh latest pc content?
nope again wrong! stranded deep console ports were in fact completed they announced the release date then few weeks later telltale broke down, pretty much a few days before the game was due to release, teh port team who handled the port resumed dev, a year later adding end game content that the pc got up untill all the time the rights situation was resolved. so no the port was complete only extra content was added by same port team funlabs from romania
jade plays games
New member
stranded deep port was done by funlabs a port company out of romania, originally commissioned by tell tale (much like tell tale iron galaxy collab for 7 days) two days or so before release on console tell tale went bust, it took next 8 months for teh auctions to be set, stranded deep got teh rights back, instead of just releasing teh game they sent it back to funlabs, renewed a new contract and asked them to port over all teh end game content that was missing, hence why actual console players saw the ending of the game before pc, (devs wanted to update pc ending only at full release on pc, but ended up adding teh missing content after backlash that console had it)Yep, Stranded Deep was released in 2015 (according to wikipedia) and this FINISHED version was then ported by the developer himself (who had nothing else to do like, for example, finish a game) to console, with money from telltale. This porting was interrupted by telltales implosion, but they could finish it after getting the rights back.
Things to note:
1) SD had not been sold on the console before, so they could expect lots of revenue from releasing it on console. If they didn't have the money, investors would fall over each other for the chance to lend them the money with such a good revenue promise and low risk.
2) The developer of SD did exactly what TFP wants to do now, i.e. finish the game on the PC, THEN port to console. Thank you for this excellent example
3) SD is not a voxel game and runs in 4G RAM, an Intel HD 5500 (!!!) with 512MB VRAM. In other words they didn't need to optimize the game or downgrade or save any RAM or VRAM. Porting was essentially just adapting the user interface to controllers.
1/ yes its a more better prospect for teh publisher, but stranded deep while popular isnt a game changer like 7 days, but agreed beamteam games have done well out of teh situation,
2/ it does not matter that teh 7 days telltales game is considered a different entity by you, everyone else in the world when hearing you have the rights back, that your now in charge would expect you to be in charge of all console matters. THE OBJECTION HERE IS that console players have already shelled out 30 dollars for a game, they should not have to pay again for the same content as pc. no-one is disputing really that next gen wil be a better experience for console players with 7 days, what we are pissed at is we have to wait two more years potentially and then pay again!
3/ all optimisations are troublesome but thats what these professional port companies do, voxels games are taxing yes, but there are lots on console that do fine to average
space engineers, pixark, portal knights, minecraft all work on consoles
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Thank you for the more detailed information about SD, my info was just from wikipedia.
2) My point here was that it is far better to finish a game first, then do a port. Something which the SD-developer didn't do after all if your more detailed info is correct. But it also seems they got some backlash for doing this.
I don't see what your reply has to do with my point, but I did say somewhere else that telltale is a different entity from TFP, so I won't protest too much
. Comments on your point:A) it probably will be longer than 2 years you have to wait. My crystal ball says 3 years or more, 2.5 years would be a surprise.
B) This is a comment to Ralco: Maybe your suggestion to TFP to release the update as a DLC to finance it would not sit well with parts of the console community it seems. I assume here a promised patch as DLC is equally controversial than paying anew for the new consoles, it doesn't matter that the promise was from Telltale not TFP.
C) I'm not TFP, I don't know what they will do in 3-4 years, I'm sure they themselves will set prices and possible discounts only after they have signed deals with publishers and developers of the port . If at all, if they licence it again it will be the new publisher who will set prices. They definitely won't commit to anything they will do in 3-4 years or that involves other companies who might have other ideas. We can discuss it, sure, but it is like discussing the price of milk in 2030.
3) As was brought up more than once, some of the games you listed have voxels just on the surface (AFAIK). Only minecraft seems to have voxels underground too but it is simply in a different size category to 7D2D. The PC version shows that 7D2D hits some limits that even current-gen PCs have problems with. Comparing porting efforts of SD and 7D2D or waving away potential problems with "they are professionals" is fine if you don't have to pay for or solve those problems. As soon as you hit a hardware limit, porting gets complicated and expensive. SD never hit ANY limit on the current consoles, obviously.
They posted themselves before they got the rights back that they wanted to support the console port, I'm not putting words in their mouths literally reading what they said.
But "want" is a word that doesn't convey a promise but a desire. Similar to "I want to go to that party" which later could as well change to "Damn, my sister calls and wants to be picked up from the airport". TFP never promised what exactly they would do on console. Even the next-gen port is just very probable, but their offical word is that it is "something they will look into when the PC version is released".
"In the weeks following, we've been working in good faith with the remaining management at Telltale to regain control over the console versions and allow us to provide support and updates on those platforms. So far, these efforts have failed"
they played us made us think they wanted to do right by the console players and once they had their rights back they kept quiet for months then tell us they dont wanna. This is no longer a promise by telltale this was from their own post. For whatever reason it won't let me post the screenshot.
Ok. But again this isn't a promise. It is a description what they were doing (the working together with T.) to be able to do something later. It does not promise this is going to happen. It is just telling you this was the plan at that time.
I assume they hoped to just slip into the shoes of telltale and take over the contract with IG. In reality they needed half a year and an unspecified amount of money to regain control. Meanwhile IG probably accepted other contracts. Someone else might have checked the sources IG had produced and concluded it would take more time amd money than expected (it always takes more time and money
). But plans change all the time.It says "to regain control" this was after telltales closure, this was what they said in reference to the future, if they intended to partner back with IG they should have said that not this, this implies that they (TFP) were going to continue to support the console version.Ok. But again this isn't a promise. It is a description what they were doing (the working together with T.) to be able to do something later. It does not promise this is going to happen. It is just telling you this was the plan at that time.
I assume they hoped to just slip into the shoes of telltale and take over the contract with IG. In reality they needed half a year and an unspecified amount of money to regain control. Meanwhile IG probably accepted other contracts. Someone else might have checked the sources IG had produced and concluded it would take more time amd money than expected (it always takes more time and money