PC Concrete bases are useless!!!

RipClaw · Mar 10, 2020

Let the developer tell you his perspective so you can understand whether what we have now is the intended final version or whether it is still a work in progress.

Well, I'm curious to see how that turns out.

Ac75 · Mar 10, 2020

I didnt have that much trouble with them so far. During my last 2 hordes, i had 3 of them each night. Only 1 exploded each horde. I managed to kill the rest before they blew up and i use regular ammo. M60 is my best friend for this now.
But let's be honest here. Demolishers are a cheap and lazy way to challenge end-game players. One of the main goal of 7DtD is to build a strong enough forteress to withstand the heaviest siege. Some players have strongholds so tough, the devil itself couldnt go through. So what was the best way to counter this, beside adding more than 64 zombies alive at same time and therefore making the game more taxing on systems? Demolishers.

I can conceive you can take creative liberties with a zombie setting, but ones who use technological devices is kinda stretched a bit too far. Acid-vomitting Cop Zombies are actually doing the job at destroying fortifications. More of them added to subsequent hordes is just fine AFAIC. No need to add Demos.

The fun of a zombie horde game is to fight waves of them. Its not about taking out a single one who's mildly "sentient" and can detonate explosive devices... That's my point of view, but i wont turn or tone them down for the time being, as long as it doesnt become ridiculously cheap.

You’re right

its a mildly sentient zombie - that explodes

thats pretty dumb now you say it

Gamida · Mar 10, 2020

I am kinda curious now too of the back story. The zombies up to now I could kinda see how some virus or event could mutate them. The Demolishers are a different story. I don't know of any way a mutation could build a bomb into a person. They don't seem to be like the cops who explode from some chemical reaction in their bodies. They look to have an actual constructed bomb built into their chests. Who put them there? Are they part of some evil geniuses army? Something the Duke is working on perhaps. Stay tuned tomorrow, same pimp time, same pimp channel...

Aldranon · Mar 10, 2020

Well, with all the rumors of this current virus being weaponized and of the cures that fight this virus WITHIN your cells.

Wouldn't take much to imagine someone would combine the two and have a virus that changed people into rabid killers... or anything else.

Boom! 7D2D backstory! Not Zombies... something much worse.

Tin · Mar 10, 2020

While I agree the damage the explosion does, is a touch on the OP side.

Among the other tactics people are sharing:

Find the perk(s) that have the added bonus of slowing entities down, when you target their legs.

Personally, think zombies should just get slower and weaker the more damage is done to them, without needing a perk, but hey! that's just a me thing.

edit: (As an aside thing) If zombies are going to be specialized. Why do the cops still explode? Don't the Demo's fill this role now? Seems the vomit is more than enough for the cops? (idk)

Kyonshi · Mar 10, 2020

If there were no demolishers most probably would of been bored/moved on already. There always needs to be some threat out there. I already see the people complaining when bandits start showing up......?

I wanna point out that i actually love the game. Im in fact borderline addicted. This is a game that makes me want to use my sick days to stay home and play. I have way much praise to give than legitimate complaints... No game's perfect and there's always things that bother us.

I dont hate Demos. They're indeed quite a challenge but its still an easy and cheap way to deal with the limited zombie spawns we can get and that the game can handle. I'd rather have 128 zombies attacking than adding Demos, but like i said, its my point of view and i dont take it as a fact. And if anybody should have explosives, it should be those soon to come Bandits and i find it cool to have them introduced. It would make more sense to me than a zombie carrying bombs.

Orclover · Mar 10, 2020

They're indeed quite a challenge but its still an easy and cheap way to deal with the limited zombie spawns we can get and that the game can handle. I'd rather have 128 zombies attacking than adding Demos, .

Oh god I wish we could do numbers like that. Make horde night about actual hordes instead of the superUberMenche infected that take clips of ammo to the head to kill and can demolish a steel structure in seconds.

Laz Man · Mar 10, 2020

I wanna point out that i actually love the game. Im in fact borderline addicted. This is a game that makes me want to use my sick days to stay home and play. I have way much praise to give than legitimate complaints... No game's perfect and there's always things that bother us.

I dont hate Demos. They're indeed quite a challenge but its still an easy and cheap way to deal with the limited zombie spawns we can get and that the game can handle. I'd rather have 128 zombies attacking than adding Demos, but like i said, its my point of view and i dont take it as a fact. And if anybody should have explosives, it should be those soon to come Bandits and i find it cool to have them introduced. It would make more sense to me than a zombie carrying bombs.

You never know the demo might be scaled back as just a hard hitting block destroyer and explosives moved over to bandits. The beauty of alpha development...

...I think most people would prefer more zombies but realistically we know there are technical limitations for that so compromises like these are made...

Ac75 · Mar 10, 2020

I am kinda curious now too of the back story. The zombies up to now I could kinda see how some virus or event could mutate them. The Demolishers are a different story. I don't know of any way a mutation could build a bomb into a person. They don't seem to be like the cops who explode from some chemical reaction in their bodies. They look to have an actual constructed bomb built into their chests. Who put them there? Are they part of some evil geniuses army? Something the Duke is working on perhaps. Stay tuned tomorrow, same pimp time, same pimp channel...

To me, it’s incredibly dumb and just like an idea someone on the dev team must have thought was a good idea after smoking something

Because just look at the Model of it - it looks totally out of place with the rest of the game

theu should have just made cops improved or just made a few cop variations

this demo character is out place both in looks snd in function and the only the only reason we can’t say it’s not canon is because even after 7 years of development and 10 million copies sold there’s zero back story

Aldranon · Mar 10, 2020

The Demo guy is a copy from The Fallout super-mutant with the mini nuke. That was just about the only thing you feared in Fallout 4.

Is anyone really afraid of anything else in 7d2d? Maybe the rare wandering horde of Zombie bears and zombie dogs is scary if you're on foot.

So, the Demo guy is an attempt at keeping the game interesting.

Stranded_Napkin · Mar 10, 2020

The demolishers are the character type that breaks balance. Normally, any extremely strong enemy will be slower and attack slower, might also have a bunch of hp. Weaker enemies will be faster but with less hp and high attack rate. This balances things so they both cause issues and can devastate in their own ways. The demolisher is the strong enemy that deals massive damage with basic attacks (500 block damage) and even more massive with explosive damage (5000 block damage). Then the bastard has a ton of hp that I believe is the highest of any zombie in the game. Then he has armor...a lot of it. He can be stunned, knocked down, as many as 3 times before he finally falls the final time. Your weapons that seem OP on every other zombie seems pathetically weak against him.

I consider the demolisher to be a combination of what should be two separate zombies. Might make a mod for it when I'm done with my current project. Until then we need to keep on the devs and hope they pick up that people are not happy with the current implementation.

Kyonshi · Mar 10, 2020

Im reading all of the following comments after mine and would like to discuss them globally, because i wont quote everyone of them, that would make my post too long lol.

In the grand scheme of things, we had to expect something that would feature brutal burst damage. This is a tower-defence game and super-tough structures from seasoned players in end-game stages should be challenged accordingly. No problem here. Demos are a solution, the easiest one. But quite frankly, the output damage could be toned down. 2500-3000 damage for the explosion should be enough. It would still destroy regular Cobblestone and Upgraded Cobblestone (2500HP) but not reinforced Concrete. One would blow up and the significant damage would be critical, but not fatal. People work their asses of to build complex and sturdy bases and it should pay off by withstanding at least a single explosion.

Now, that would be a warning. If you dont elevate your game, you know damn well that the next one who blows up will send your remaining Concrete flying away. Keep the Armor rating and toughness of the Demos, i dont care. But a single 5000 damage shot? Its an obivous, cheap shot at reinforced Concrete. People spend time and lots of resources to upgrade to this material and the minute they proudly feel they can keep enjoying the game, nope! 5000 hit points for nothing. This is a bit lame.

Again, im not saying that our bases should never be tested and challenged and remain in pristine condition. I for one, enjoy damage evalutation in the aftermath and proceeding to upgrade my base. Im dont even want them to remove Demos. But they could slack up a bit on burst damage. That's all im saying.

Tin · Mar 10, 2020

Code:

&lt;!-- Demolition Zombie Adjustment --&gt;
&lt;set xpath="/entity_classes/entity_class[@name='zombieDemolition']/property[@name='Explosion.RadiusBlocks']/@value"&gt;4&lt;/set&gt;
&lt;set xpath="/entity_classes/entity_class[@name='zombieDemolition']/property[@name='Explosion.RadiusEntities']/@value"&gt;8&lt;/set&gt;
&lt;set xpath="/entity_classes/entity_class[@name='zombieDemolition']/property[@name='Explosion.BlockDamage']/@value"&gt;2250&lt;/set&gt;
&lt;set xpath="/entity_classes/entity_class[@name='zombieDemolition']/property[@name='Explosion.EntityDamage']/@value"&gt;300&lt;/set&gt;
&lt;set xpath="/entity_classes/entity_class[@name='zombieDemolition']/property[@name='Explosion.DamageBonus.earth']/@value"&gt;0.05&lt;/set&gt;

ofc this is in xpath form.

Takes 3-4 of them going off near the same place, against RConcrete.

Kyonshi · Mar 10, 2020

Code:

&lt;!-- Demolition Zombie Adjustment --&gt;
&lt;set xpath="/entity_classes/entity_class[@name='zombieDemolition']/property[@name='Explosion.RadiusBlocks']/@value"&gt;4&lt;/set&gt;
&lt;set xpath="/entity_classes/entity_class[@name='zombieDemolition']/property[@name='Explosion.RadiusEntities']/@value"&gt;8&lt;/set&gt;
&lt;set xpath="/entity_classes/entity_class[@name='zombieDemolition']/property[@name='Explosion.BlockDamage']/@value"&gt;2250&lt;/set&gt;
&lt;set xpath="/entity_classes/entity_class[@name='zombieDemolition']/property[@name='Explosion.EntityDamage']/@value"&gt;300&lt;/set&gt;
&lt;set xpath="/entity_classes/entity_class[@name='zombieDemolition']/property[@name='Explosion.DamageBonus.earth']/@value"&gt;0.05&lt;/set&gt;

ofc this is in xpath form.

Takes 3-4 of them going off near the same place, against RConcrete.

Oh so the Wiki is wrong? It mentions 5k block dmg and 800 entity dmg.

Tin · Mar 10, 2020

No the wiki is right. The spoiler is my adjustments I made into a modlet awhile back.

Its just me saying "Here have fun with it!".

Laz Man · Mar 10, 2020

Oh so the Wiki is wrong? It mentions 5k block dmg and 800 entity dmg.

Are you basing your feedback on wiki info? If so I recommend actually playing against them first.

All the hate on demos are over inflated imo. Most of the negative feedback are from those who are misinformed or play on really high difficulty or are unwillingly to adapt new base strategies.

There are a few videos linked in this thread alone of successful demo defenses.

Kyonshi · Mar 10, 2020

Are you basing your feedback on wiki info? If so I recommend actually playing against them first.

All the hate on demos are over inflated imo. Most of the negative feedback are from those who are misinformed or play on really high difficulty or are unwillingly to adapt new base strategies.

There are a few videos linked in this thread alone of successful demo defenses.

If you keep track of the discussion, you'll see that i mentioned i actually played against them and secondly, i dont hate them. I dont mind them but i have my own grain of salt about the subject. I know how to deal with them and how they operate.

If the 7DtD wiki isnt accurate, i cant know, i dont have special powers. So far, what i needed to consult was right from that source.

Laz Man · Mar 10, 2020

If you keep track of the discussion, you'll see that i mentioned i actually played against them and secondly, i dont hate them. I dont mind them but i have my own grain of salt about the subject. I how to deal with them and how they operate.

If the 7DtD wiki isnt accurate, i cant know, i dont have special powers. So far, what i needed to consult was right from that source.

I agree that some more balancing with them wouldnt hurt.

BaconsTV · Mar 12, 2020

IMO there are a few options to change on the demo.

1 - tone down the damage to blocks by melee attacks drastically and keep the explosion damage as is

2 - tone down the explosion damage and radius just a little more than the cops explosion, but keep the melee damage, the melee damage wrecks R conc in two hits.

I would probably choose option 1. However, at the same time, I also think that increasing the hp values of blocks and durability of traps should increase a lot. Blocks could get a bonus % to hp/"amour" if they are backed by another block type.

Not a fan of the current demo as we also have the cop that explodes too :/ its just a powered-up cop with a sensitive nipple

Roland · Mar 12, 2020

its just a powered-up cop with a sensitive nipple

And they said realism wasn't of first importance!

PC Concrete bases are useless!!!

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