PC Concerning Magazines and Learn-By-Reading...

[binf_shinana]

雑誌システムの問題は比較的高い精度で未来を予測できることであり、ボーナスを多少減らしてもプレイ指針は今と大して変わらないと思われます。

完全にランダムであれば（一部の出現数固定クレートがあるので、多少はそれによって増減するでしょうが）基本的には均等に上がるだけになるので、予測精度の高さはやはり変わりません。
しかも、取得する雑誌の確率を自分で操作できなくなるため、プレイフィールはとても受動的になります。

雑誌システムは、これをうまく扱うにはアプローチする要素が少ないと思います。しかし、バニラでこれ以上条件を複雑に設定するのも正直厳しいと感じています。

The problem with the magazine system is that it can predict the future with a relatively high degree of accuracy, so even if the bonuses are reduced somewhat, the playing guidelines will probably not change much.

If it is completely random (there are some crates with a fixed number of appearances, so it will increase or decrease somewhat depending on that), it will basically just increase evenly, so the high prediction accuracy will still remain the same.
What's more, you can't control the probability of the magazine you get, so the play feel becomes very passive.

I think the magazine system has fewer elements to approach in order to successfully handle this. However, I honestly feel that it would be difficult to set more complicated conditions in vanilla.

 

[BFT2020]

Well the fact that you need to rationalize it to make sense, does speak for itself imo.

@meilodasreh Yeah, bookstores become the number one target for looting, double dipping is the norm. Crowded Public Servers must be a nightmare i imagine. It´s all about finding magazines fast enough to not fall behind the gamestage.

Not necessary.  You could also tweak the magazine counts in the brand crates and that helps out a lot.  This would only require a server side modlet to accomplish.

 

[Vaeliorin]

Its a glass half empty/full situation.

In the end a player does not get less magazines for making a perk choice.  They get a bonus for magazines for the perk(s) chosen.  A Player can control that perk choice and min/max their magazine acquisition.  I see managing that bonus as a benefit not a punishment.  I like the fact that I can progress in some crafting skills without perking into them, even though it takes some in-game time.  Day 85 in a no trader run and I am just a third of the way to maxing out most non perked magazine series.  

FWIW; BFT2020 has identified the code to eliminate or reduce the bonus chance for magazines.  
 

Sure, but when it's the difference between getting a motorcycle on Day 10 versus Day 40, I'm always going to choose Day 10.  Not being mobile sucks.  Same with not having access to the chem station, etc.

I can live without high quality weapons (for the most part, need to keep pace on my melee weapon or things get real tedious) but not having high quality tools, multiple workstations, and fast, high inventory vehicles sends me right up the wall (mostly because it feels like the game is making me waste my time without them.)

 

[Roland]

Sure, but when it's the difference between getting a motorcycle on Day 10 versus Day 40, I'm always going to choose Day 10.  Not being mobile sucks.  Same with not having access to the chem station, etc.

I can live without high quality weapons (for the most part, need to keep pace on my melee weapon or things get real tedious) but not having high quality tools, multiple workstations, and fast, high inventory vehicles sends me right up the wall (mostly because it feels like the game is making me waste my time without them.)

Okay but that goes against the nature of the game since it is designed to have the player progressively grow stronger over a longer time period than 10 days. It's fine that you don't enjoy having to take a long journey to get to the top tier items in the game but that is the intended design and always has been. Just because it was easy in the past to bypass the progression or rush it fairly easily doesn't mean that it was the intention of the designers for players to have a motorcycle by Day 10. It is unreasonable to expect that in creating a game where the intention is that the player will begin on foot and progress through the different levels of vehicles that the devs should completely ignore it when players can bypass or rush that progression to an excessive degree.

As soon as I played the magazines the very first time, I knew that people who like to rush to motorcycles or chemistry stations wouldn't like it because the fast pace that used to be completely under their control was now left to random chance. The developers essentially erased the ability to deterministically rush the progression of what can be crafted. When they released A21 initially and saw that player behavior was still resulting in excessively rapid advancement what did they do? They nerfed the supply of magazines to slow things down to a reasonable pace even if someone was pushing hard to collect magazines as quickly as possible. 

What you want in terms of pacing and top gear acquisition is in complete opposition to the purpose and nature of the game. It still is pretty easy to rush in this game but it isn't as easy as it used to be. Don't be surprised if further changes make it even more difficult to rush. 

 

[Vaeliorin]

Okay but that goes against the nature of the game since it is designed to have the player progressively grow stronger over a longer time period than 10 days. It's fine that you don't enjoy having to take a long journey to get to the top tier items in the game but that is the intended design and always has been. Just because it was easy in the past to bypass the progression or rush it fairly easily doesn't mean that it was the intention of the designers for players to have a motorcycle by Day 10. It is unreasonable to expect that in creating a game where the intention is that the player will begin on foot and progress through the different levels of vehicles that the devs should completely ignore it when players can bypass or rush that progression to an excessive degree.

As soon as I played the magazines the very first time, I knew that people who like to rush to motorcycles or chemistry stations wouldn't like it because the fast pace that used to be completely under their control was now left to random chance. The developers essentially erased the ability to deterministically rush the progression of what can be crafted. When they released A21 initially and saw that player behavior was still resulting in excessively rapid advancement what did they do? They nerfed the supply of magazines to slow things down to a reasonable pace even if someone was pushing hard to collect magazines as quickly as possible. 

What you want in terms of pacing and top gear acquisition is in complete opposition to the purpose and nature of the game. It still is pretty easy to rush in this game but it isn't as easy as it used to be. Don't be surprised if further changes make it even more difficult to rush. 

But it hasn't been against the nature of the game since...A18?  I think A17 still had level gates, but I can't recall for certain.  They've made it easier and easier to rush things over the past several alphas.  I usually didn't have a motorcycle in A20 until day 8 (I play 2 hour days), but I've seen someone unlock it on day 5 or 6 playing standard day length in A21 (you can look up IzPrebuilt's Intellect series on Youtube.)

I actually dislike that it's so easy to rush things, but given that it is, I can't not do it.  I've spent a ton of time playing "expert" (it generally means really difficult with long, drawn out crafting processes) minecraft modpacks, so it's not like I'm looking for easy, I just want to spend my time on the things I enjoy doing instead of the things that I find tedious or annoying (these general involve travel and inventory management.)  A difficult process of working my way up in items would be cool (though I'd prefer complex processes for refining and crafting rather than needing to spend a bunch of time looting) but that doesn't seem to be likely something that'll be added to the game (and complex refining doesn't seem readily moddable, or I'd have expected to see something like it already.)

Admittedly, I play this game for different reasons than most people.  As I've said in the past, I've multiple times considered removing all the zombies except on horde night.  The environmental zombies are just an annoyance to me, something that I have to deal with in my quest to make a cool, massive base that utterly crushes the horde.

 

[Roland]

But it hasn't been against the nature of the game since...A18?  I think A17 still had level gates, but I can't recall for certain.  They've made it easier and easier to rush things over the past several alphas.  I usually didn't have a motorcycle in A20 until day 8 (I play 2 hour days), but I've seen someone unlock it on day 5 or 6 playing standard day length in A21 (you can look up IzPrebuilt's Intellect series on Youtube.)

Just because you can rush it doesn't mean that it is the intended design. I don't know whether they will ever force the issue by making it impossible to rush. They don't seem super keen on going to war on that issue being perfectly willing to let people do it if they want. I'm certainly fine with people doing it if it makes them happy. It boggles my mind that people would do it when they know it leads to boredom and tedium.

I actually dislike that it's so easy to rush things, but given that it is, I can't not do it.

...

Admittedly, I play this game for different reasons than most people.  As I've said in the past, I've multiple times considered removing all the zombies except on horde night.  The environmental zombies are just an annoyance to me, something that I have to deal with in my quest to make a cool, massive base that utterly crushes the horde.

Sounds like you should change the settings to horde night every night.