PC Complaints about Zombie Intelligence Irritate Me

[PainStrumpet]

Look: stupidity is the province of the dead. Situational awareness is at an all-time low. Adaptation is abundantly not their shtick.

We call a real life person a "zombie" when they demonstrate no capacity for reflection, and when they thoughtlessly follow a predetermined behavior pattern without regard for circumstances. We do this because that's a defining characteristic of zombies.

So you can predict the behavior of the zombies, and that... upsets you? Um... would you rather that the brainless undead be able to out think you?

They don't learn. They shouldn't. You should be able to build a base that thwarts them, and with every iteration, your survival of the Blood Moon should become more and more like a simple chore.

In zombie fiction, the first main challenge for the protagonists is learning the basic rules of dealing with the dead. What kills them vs what doesn't. What attracts or distracts them, and what passes unnoticed. How do they move, and how can't they move.

Once the rules are known, only the foolish disregard them. And, ideally, the story punishes them for being fools. And if everybody else tolerates the fool? Then the story punishes them for that meta-foolishness.

Are you expecting the game to present you with surprisingly smart, innovative zombies? Weird.

Now, in zombie fiction, surprises from zombies in the form of, "Whoa, I've never seen that kind of zombie before," are fine. And the game has those special zombies in it. So, y'know... good.

But in those cases, it's still not true that the zombies are any smarter: they are still brainless, and they still behave predictably, so the main challenge is just a repeat of the first. Figure out the rules, then exploit them. Render the new and exciting challenge into a mere chore.

How else would you want it to be?

 

[linewalker]

We call a real life person a "zombie" when they demonstrate no capacity for reflection, and when they thoughtlessly follow a predetermined behavior pattern without regard for circumstances. We do this because that's a defining characteristic of zombies.

Real-life zombies

Also I think it was alpha 17 that they were too smart in?

 

[bobrpggamer]

Look: stupidity is the province of the dead. Situational awareness is at an all-time low. Adaptation is abundantly not their shtick.

We call a real life person a "zombie" when they demonstrate no capacity for reflection, and when they thoughtlessly follow a predetermined behavior pattern without regard for circumstances. We do this because that's a defining characteristic of zombies.

So you can predict the behavior of the zombies, and that... upsets you? Um... would you rather that the brainless undead be able to out think you?

They don't learn. They shouldn't. You should be able to build a base that thwarts them, and with every iteration, your survival of the Blood Moon should become more and more like a simple chore.

In zombie fiction, the first main challenge for the protagonists is learning the basic rules of dealing with the dead. What kills them vs what doesn't. What attracts or distracts them, and what passes unnoticed. How do they move, and how can't they move.

Once the rules are known, only the foolish disregard them. And, ideally, the story punishes them for being fools. And if everybody else tolerates the fool? Then the story punishes them for that meta-foolishness.

Are you expecting the game to present you with surprisingly smart, innovative zombies? Weird.

Now, in zombie fiction, surprises from zombies in the form of, "Whoa, I've never seen that kind of zombie before," are fine. And the game has those special zombies in it. So, y'know... good.

But in those cases, it's still not true that the zombies are any smarter: they are still brainless, and they still behave predictably, so the main challenge is just a repeat of the first. Figure out the rules, then exploit them. Render the new and exciting challenge into a mere chore.

How else would you want it to be?

Kind of a weird post, but I agree completely. There is not zombies in any fiction that sit by a fire planning the best way to attack a base or encampment by drawing plans in the sand with sticks, they do not have any capacity to figure that, "well they would expect us to all form a single file line in the first hole in the wall, so lets throw the humans off by making more holes, that'll get em for sure". If you outsmart any zombies congratulations you have an IQ of over 80.

Genuinely when guys get overrun by zombies in any fictionalization work it is usually not planing ahead and or making mistakes, and by making the mistake it is you that is to blame not the intelligence of the zombie. I honestly could not sit through the zombie show on Netflix called Black Summer because the guys in the show were as dumb as the zombies, it almost seemed to me the writers did that on purpose to irritate the viewers. 90% of the time there was a guy wondering the streets without a weapon, even a glass shard would be a defense, but this guy just wondered around not picking up a large stick or lead pipe or anything, he even sat down to read a book and looked like he was really getting into it with zombies and psychopathic humans on the loose.

 

[AtomicUs5000]

I think it's more of what fiction you have been exposed to.
https://zombie.fandom.com/wiki/Intelligent_Zombies
 
I don't really care how TFP defines THEIR zombies, as long as it's a good game as a result.

 

[bobrpggamer]

I think it's more of what fiction you have been exposed to.
https://zombie.fandom.com/wiki/Intelligent_Zombies
 
I don't really care how TFP defines THEIR zombies, as long as it's a good game as a result.

Years and years of evolution might even have a zombie using a gun, but I doubt it. They have only the minute cognitive ability to eat and that's about it. I like the episode in The Walking Dead when they get to the CDC and the guy shows the brain activity of the human subject and it is just like a 5th of the brain that is active of a normal human.

 

[AtomicUs5000]

Years and years of evolution might even have a zombie using a gun, but I doubt it. They have only the minute cognitive ability to eat and that's about it.

I don't know what the lore will be in the end, but I suspect they are going the mutated by radiation route.

 

[bobrpggamer]

I don't know what the lore will be in the end, but I suspect they are going the mutated by radiation route.

I could see training them over a period of decades or something. Or maybe like the super mutants of the Fallout Series.

Here is that scene:

This guy is not going to be planing any brilliant base attacks any time soon. This was when the Walking Dead was the best show on TV.

 

[Jugginator]

Zombies are fake and are whatever whoever is making a movie/game about them can be. There's no zombie "lore law". And, be honest, not many people would have fun with the game if all zombies were brain-dead, great-grandma shuffling weak things that would take a year to rip apart a wood wall (no point in tower defense if the zombies were like that). Nobody complained about all the black ops zombies being fast, always knowing where you're at and able to climb over whatever, or Resident Evil zombies with mutations and whatnot. Why do 7 Days zombies have to represent 2 steps an hour zombies from the walking dead?

Not hating on anyone's opinions/likes at all, just saying.

 

[bobrpggamer]

Zombies are fake and are whatever whoever is making a movie/game about them can be. There's no zombie "lore law". And, be honest, not many people would have fun with the game if all zombies were brain-dead, great-grandma shuffling weak things that would take a year to rip apart a wood wall (no point in tower defense if the zombies were like that). Nobody complained about all the black ops zombies being fast, always knowing where you're at and able to climb over whatever, or Resident Evil zombies with mutations and whatnot. Why do 7 Days zombies have to represent 2 steps an hour zombies from the walking dead?

Not hating on anyone's opinions/likes at all, just saying.

Of course your right about the creator of the movies or TV shows or whatever being what they want their zombies to be, its just that if you think of all the references since Night of the Living Dead they are always portrayed as being literally brain-dead and I believe this would be true if zombies were possible. The zombies in 7D2D are super zombies compared to The Walking Dead's versions of zombies anyway, their version is the idea that only a herd is something to worry about unless you get surprised or you make some mistake, whereas the 7D2D zombies can emit puke, jump long distances and carry explosives that magically detonate somehow. Its just that you should not expect zombies to have the AI of humans like the soon to be bandits will be, of course that's will be more complicated programming for The Fun Pimps, and at that point they should be able to attack your base a little better than the zombies can, with projectile fire and taking cover behind rocks or walls.

 

[PainStrumpet]

I think it's more of what fiction you have been exposed to.
https://zombie.fandom.com/wiki/Intelligent_Zombies
 
I don't really care how TFP defines THEIR zombies, as long as it's a good game as a result.

Holy hell, I sit corrected!

I guess the players who are convinced the zombies should be smarter than they are in 7D2D aren't wholly wrong: they may be drawing on zombie lore from further afield than I've checked out.

That said, the zombies in 7D2D haven't ever shown themselves to be from the mindless horde variety, apart from the specials that show up.

And with that in mind, I suppose there could be special Zombie Overlords who somehow manage to direct the dead in attacks (much as the Screamer summons more to the party). Want to stop the coordinated attack? Take out the Overlord. Need to thin the reinforcements? Take out the Screamer.

(And, of course, there's no reason Evil Humans can't figure out how to push a herd, or set a bunch of campfires to encourage a Screamer to spawn, or whatever. In addition to launching their own specialized attacks to take out defenses and whatnot. But my OP was aimed at the raft of complaints underlying a lot of "This is Boring" and "This is Too Easy" posts, all of which seemed to believe that "If I can outsmart the zombies, then the game is boring," which (as covered in the OP) bugged me.)

I could see training them over a period of decades or something. Or maybe like the super mutants of the Fallout Series.

Here is that scene: <snip>

This guy is not going to be planing any brilliant base attacks any time soon. This was when the Walking Dead was the best show on TV.

Wow, those people look young now!

Only two of them survived to restart civilization.

Might be time to rewatch that show. The pandemic gives us time, after all.