PC Clarification on Health and Stamina

[Viktoriusiii]

I kinda expect an essay explaining how much wrong your statement is now lol (not presenting my personal opinion here)

Well... I'll be your guest

A simple system is always great for a certain type of game.

If you want to play 5 minutes of candy crush, having to know 300 pages of candycrush wiki to beat level 1 is not how you need to design a game.

But this game is a way more nieche game.

It is survival. Everything in this game is (seemingly) working against you. Food and water, zombies, ressource scarcity, (other players if multiplayer)

NOTHING in this game should feel as if its a present. BUT it should also be something that you can make to work for you.

So if we take the two different aproaches we will see something:

A16:

max hp 250,

food 100%

hp recovery 0.5 per % food

So with 0 food you basically get 50hp back.

So there was no need for food and drink if you aren't hurt.

You could go 2-3 ingamedays without food and 1 day without water without any punishment. And even after you only got slight decreases on your wellness. But even if you "saved up" your food to heal lateron, you would still only get back a small amount of hp.

It made no real sense why you wouldn't regenerate slowly over time, but it was "easy to understand".

System now:

if you do not drink(regularly), you do not get stamina/hp back as fast limiting your exploration, harvest and fighting capability.

If you do not eat (regularly), you have less stamina/health, limiting your exploration, harvest and fighting capability.

BUT on the other hand, you can get hp back without having to have any food/medical supplies on you, the overall hp resored is also larger, BUT you are slightly punished for not beeing wellfed.

So now instead of trying to trick the system by downing 2 meatstews after each other and drinking 4 goldenrodteas and then not eating anything for days, you will have to regularly feed yourself and make the choice (if you have it) to take stuff with you to be able to explore/fight better or to have an extra slot open for other stuff.

tl;dr:

old system: easy, exploitative, unrewarding

new system: complex (but not impossible to understand), realistic, rewarding

Which one wins is personal choice. But I like non dumbed down games... so I love the new system.

 

[SylenThunder]

...
tl;dr:

old system: easy, exploitative, unrewarding

new system: complex (but not impossible to understand), realistic, rewarding

Which one wins is personal choice. But I like non dumbed down games... so I love the new system.

My feelings exactly.

 

[Gamida]

So to me the vanilla game should be an "all round game" that the casual user would play but it should be easy to mod the F out of it for other players.

I myself can only do minor changes to xml files and God help me if I try to mod the UI but am sure there will be mods I can add that others will so generously make and distribute.

So as long as there are modders and the ability to easily mod the game most of us should be good.

 

[DaVegaNL]

And I'm just here sitting and wondering why they would remove the actual amount of HP/Stamina from the HUD.

 

[canadianbluebeer]

Hmm, so like in Fallout 4, if you take radiation damage, your max HP goes down until you clear it.

In FO4 that's with Rad Away. In 7dtd it's a medkit/medical bandage.

That is just fine.

 

[Jedo]

Well, my experience is different than the experience of the guy from the first quote, that's all I can say about it, so we either probably prefer different games or live in two different worlds. Complex design isn't necessarily bad, I even said that in the second part of my post, however if the game has a complex design, it should not be at expense of fun. New players need to feel that they are welcomed to learn the game design at their own pace and they should have fun doing so.

I know that your experiences are different. That's my point, and it's exactly that point which so many people don't seem to get. What people "need" and what "should be" are subjective, and that decision isn't ultimately up to you. When people project these things onto "new players," the argument becomes even more ludicrous. How do you know who those people are or what they want?

At the end of the day, the standard is what TFP wants. Maybe they are not designing their game for the casual gamer. Maybe they aren't designing it for the hardcore gamer. I didn't like the unforgiving nature of Dark Souls, so I never bought it. Imagine if those devs had catered to the masses who said, "Make it easier for the new player!" As Viktoriusiii said, this is a niche game. The people who don't realize this are doomed to be disappointed.

 

[Roland]

And I'm just here sitting and wondering why they would remove the actual amount of HP/Stamina from the HUD.

Would you please expend an essay explaining why seeing the exact percentage is important? I don't really care myself if they put the percentage remaining as a text on the bar rather than the recovery rate but I'm curious why seeing that percentage is so critical.

The reason they have the recovery rate is because it is the only visual cue you have about thirst.

Hunger = the length of the black area at the end of the Stamina bar

Stamina= the amount of blue area in the Stamina bar

Health = the amount of red area in the Health bar

Thirst doesn't have a visual representation that is easily estimated so they give the recovery rate number so you can at a glance tell that you are getting thirsty. If they removed the recovery rate and replaced it with a percentage then you would have redundant feedback on hunger, stamina, and health and nothing really to help you know your thirst.

Because the direct consequence of hunger is now lower maximum stamina you can trust me that you will never have to worry about 10% hunger vs 20% hunger. When that bar gets halfway down you will looking for food. Also a point of food returns a point of stamina so to speak. So if you eat food that gives 20 points of stamina and you were at 98 out of 100 when you ate, it will use the 2 points to bring you to 100 and then use up the remaining points as needed until they are gone at which point your bar will start draining again. So there is no waste.

Why again are you needing the exact percentage showing on the bar?

 

[DaVegaNL]

Why again are you needing the exact percentage showing on the bar?

My gods of OCD demand it!

But allright, fair point.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

Interesting that you didn’t know you were supposed to eat on your first play when back then we still had a distinct food bar on the screen.

Among my buddies i play with, this is a topic we do not talk about. never. not even when hell freezes.

 

[SylenThunder]

And I'm just here sitting and wondering why they would remove the actual amount of HP/Stamina from the HUD.

Because having it there breaks immersion, and it's not like there aren't sound tells for it also.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

Because having it there breaks immersion, and it's not like there aren't sound tells for it also.

So why exactly do bosses get healthbars over their heads then? Or better why do bosses even exists if immersion is so importnant to them? The pure existence of them destroys immersion.

 

[SylenThunder]

So why exactly do bosses get healthbars over their heads then? Or better why do bosses even exists if immersion is so importnant to them? The pure existence of them destroys immersion.

Because after lobbing 300 arrows into the head of a boss, you really need an indicator of whether you're making a difference or not. It's a give-and-take kind of thing. More crap on the UI is not a good thing for a survival game, but there will always be some exceptions.

Besides, within hours of experimental being released, there will be a UI mod to add them back in for everyone that can't understand the audio cues.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

Still doesn´t make bosses not kill the immerersion. Hope those can get modded out too. I mean there are bandits, make those bosses with lit armor and heavy weapons. Those wouldn´t be such immersion breakers as a zombie boss.

 

[Viktoriusiii]

Still doesn´t make bosses not kill the immerersion. Hope those can get modded out too. I mean there are bandits, make those bosses with lit armor and heavy weapons. Those wouldn´t be such immersion breakers as a zombie boss.

we already have "zombie bosses" we call them 'feral' and 'radiated'.

And I doubt you have modded those out ;D

 

[KanedaSyndrome]

So, who will ever consider melee again in a game where loot from zombies are gone and they will lose max hp from every hit that they take from enemies?

 

[Roland]

So, who will ever consider melee again in a game where loot from zombies are gone and they will lose max hp from every hit that they take from enemies?

Probably just those who find it fun and challenging for it's own sake. You CAN complete a melee fight unscathed but it is tougher to pull off which makes it riskier and more thrilling. As for the loss of loot that just means that you can switch it up with being stealthy and avoid when the mood hits and you won't feel you're missing out. So with all ways of surviving vs zeds being more equal in terms of rewards it means you can choose the one you like to do when you feel like doing it.

 

[Viktoriusiii]

So, who will ever consider melee again in a game where loot from zombies are gone and they will lose max hp from every hit that they take from enemies?

1. xp (is that still a thing?)

2. if I wanna loot a POI I dont want 20 zombies following me in. So I kill them before I go in.

Otherwise... there is a stealthsystem (barely functioning because of smell and sound beeing broken) that can be used.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

we already have "zombie bosses" we call them 'feral' and 'radiated'.And I doubt you have modded those out ;D

Those can just happen anywhere. Bosses sounds like, if you go to certain places that it will have a certain boss. I have had feral radiated in several buildings. And the horde.

 

[Roland]

Those can just happen anywhere. Bosses sounds like, if you go to certain places that it will have a certain boss. I have had feral radiated in several buildings. And the horde.

Most of the "bosses" now are mainly a feral or radiated version. Then again on Day 1 those can be instant death especially with the new AI and pathing. There are some new bosses in the works and I am uncertain whether they will be fully implemented in A17. Some of them can be spawned in like the bandits though.

 

[Guest]

nevermind