Child Zombies

qualify your position please.i have children and do not want to have children zombies in the game.

if you have children and still are enamoured with the concept of eviscerating child like entities then i pity your children and i hope the authorities are monitoring this sort of discussion.

also qualify your response with your real age.

i am 48 and have 4 sons 20 to 13 yo
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As some are trying to point out, that logic isn't being applied consistently. "If you work with guys in business suits and are still enamored with the concept of eviscerating zombies in business suits, then I pity your coworkers and I hope the authorities are monitoring this sort of discussion." Would that be fair?

 
I own a dog and would never harm a dog... or any animal in fact. In a survival situation, I would kill a deer, some boar, a bear, a wolf. If my dog became a zombie dog, I would kill her. You hear that authorities?

 
We only have about a dozen different zombie models in the game. The explanation for the immersion knights among us is that the world was obviously populated by clones before.
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There are 391,000 species of plants in the game, 8.7 million species of animals, about 10 000 species of mushrooms. Do we need them all? No. They are not all needed for immersion. Though fishes would be nice.

Can we have them all? Also no. Why? Many reasons. Let's start with the fact that it would take loads of work. And neither of us have HDD, let alone SSD big enough to fit all the data on our computers.

Childern? Yes, it is morally wrong. Yes, TFP have very, VERY good reason NOT TO add them. But is the fact that they are missing breaking immersion? Kinda. Yes, we do not have baby animals. But we have schools, kindegardens, playgrounds, school buses.

Can we walk around this? Yes. If we ever get NPC villages ala Minecraft, there might be childern. Explanation? People under certain age are immune to the virus. Easy as that.

qualify your position please.i have children and do not want to have children zombies in the game.

if you have children and still are enamoured with the concept of eviscerating child like entities then i pity your children and i hope the authorities are monitoring this sort of discussion.

also qualify your response with your real age.

i am 48 and have 4 sons 20 to 13 yo
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I do not want to be mean, but i think you are a bit hypersensitive. Also, refer to my answer just before your quote, i think that will clear things up. At least in my perspective. Some people would not be satisfied with living childern and literally want zombie ones. Can't blame them. Horror gendre is horror gendre. Some people do not even like it, yet still want it, just to be more scared / disgusted by zombies. You can call it masochism.

Also, to qualify my response with my real age - 23. I do not have childern. I do have little sister. And no, i do not associaty my little sister with every child monster from every game, movie or book i know. I can draw a line between real life and fantasy. Or do you think that people playing Payday are all murderers and thieves?

The game is also popular with many who don't like horror movies because it doesn't contain so much horror. I don't like horror movies myself but have no problems with the game. If you drift more into the horror genre then you would scare these players away.
The game is not a pure horror game but contains horror elements but also survival elements, tower defense elements and sandbox elements. If you put more emphasis on one area then the other areas will suffer.
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I do not think that adding two more skins into game would kill "survival elements" , "tower defense" or "sandbox". More like opposite. If your morality would stop you from shooting, you would die.

 
robots or aliens or orcs or an invading force all in enemy uniform is easy to rationise as only a game for any age i suppose.

start visualising the enemy like the girl next door requires at least some maturity AND intellect to not fug with your perspective. to see calls of give me children to massacre gives me the creeps.

 
i am largely impressed with this discussion as it is staying quite civil :-)

anyone who wears a tie needs a zombie avatar so i can smash their brains out.

■■■■ - went off the rails sorry

any sensitivity has been cauterised. i am rather nuggety by most peer reviews.

remember its just a game. but if someone wants some icky stuff to get their jollies then maybe its a cry for help.

 
And so we see how quickly this topic tends to become as heated as politics or religion would be, if we allowed those subjects. I'm moving it to Pimp Dreams before the Dev Diary catches on fire.

 
I do not think that adding two more skins into game would kill "survival elements" , "tower defense" or "sandbox". More like opposite. If your morality would stop you from shooting, you would die.
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I wouldn't play the game at all anymore and accordingly I couldn't die.

And even if I would still play the game, I would just start my editor and write a modlet to remove these kids zombies from the game. Problem solved.

 
I wouldn't play the game at all anymore and accordingly I couldn't die.And even if I would still play the game, I would just start my editor and write a modlet to remove these kids zombies from the game. Problem solved.
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Of course, that is your right. Some people would welcome it, some would not. In the part you answered to, i wasn't talking about morality, people opinions or anything like that.

I was simply reacting to your argument about adding such a feature would be killing other elements of the game :)

 
Now with that out of the way... NukemDed, Are you familiar with The Walking Dead game?

In the third episode, spoiler alert, a ten year old boy named Duck is succumbing to the zombie infection. The player is given the choice to shoot him themselves, let his father do it, or do nothing and let him turn. The game aggregates statistics on these major plot points, so we know what players decided to do.

Let's use this example to tackle some preconceptions.

  • A game where you kill children would require a highly restrictive AO (adults only) rating.
    The ESRB gave The Walking Dead a mature rating, the same as 7DtD. In fact the ESRB makes no distinction between child and adult characters in its content descriptors.
     
     
  • Okay, but even with a mature rating, a game where you kill children couldn't be very popular or sell very well.
    The Walking Dead wasn't some fringe game on the margins of the game industry. It was a success by all accounts: a critically acclaimed game of the year, that sold millions of copies and catapulted a company and a whole genre back into the spotlight.
     
     
  • Okay, but even if it's possible, only a tiny minority of 'bad' people would actively choose to kill a child in a game.
    According to the game's wiki (which can be verified in the game itself), 79% of players shot Duck and 21% didn't. The people that chose to kill a child formed the strong majority. And implying that this large group of people needs help, or deserves added scrutiny in real life is both unfair and insulting.
     
     
  • Okay, but describing what's depicted as 'killing a child' must be a distortion.
    Duck wasn't some monstrous abstraction that only technically had some child-like features. He was presented as a living human child that looked and acted like a living human child. The game uses a non-photorealistic rendering style (like Borderlands) that could be called 'cartoony', but the characters have lifelike anatomy, proportions, voices, etc. and the game shows visceral, gory detail.
     
     
  • Okay, but context is important. The Walking Dead is a different kind of game, that takes the time to develop the characters and steer the player in specific, scripted situations.
    On this point, I agree. In TWD, shooting Duck was a weighty decision - something to agonize over and discuss at length. 7DtD is not a story-driven game, and child zombies would in practice be a different-looking kind of zombie you have to dispatch like any other. So it would be appropriate to save the child zombie idea for a different game where it could be more compelling, serve more of a narrative purpose, where a more controlled environment would allow it to do more creepy horror things, etc.

 
Both of those will have same answer imho.
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Child or not, same ♥♥♥♥. Point being that it is more immersive. And adds new type of zombie that will be different while staying in terms of "reality". Also, what do you think were the most feared thing from Silent Hill by most people? Yep, those ■■■■ed childern.
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Honestly Shinebloossom, I don't know how you can say that both questions would have the same answer.

Whether you agree with people choosing not to play a game that permitted/encouraged players to shoot children, I don't think you can credibly argue that it wouldn't stop some people from buying that game.

It absolutely for ■■■■ed sure would I think.

Given that, purely from a marketing point of view if nothing else, the lost revenue from those potential customers who won't buy a game with child zombies in it, needs to be more than offset by revenue gained from people who bought the game specifically because it did have child zombies in it, and I say that, because the vast majority of customers, those who don't care one way or the other, will buy the game regardless.

So, I think it's practically self-evident truth that the number of people who would refuse to buy a game with child zombies in it is greater than the number of people who will only buy a game with child zombies in it, and therefore, again, purely from a marketing point of view, TFP would be crazy to put child zombies into the base game.

Modders can if they want, and I've no doubt (and no judgement) that it would be a popular mod, but I think there's almost no chance at all that TFP would ever put them into the base game, and I think they're 100% right not to.

 
I'd like to add my thoughts to the discussion. Just for Background - I am 38, have three Children (16YF) (7YF) (2months M).

Personally I would like to see kidz-zombies in the game. Why? Because of immersion and the possibility of having real freakout situations that go beyond a jumpscare.

Is it not enough to have "normal" zombies in the game? sure. But if it were a feature, I would not say no. Some mods already have them.

But I can also see why its is not implemented into the game. Having bear breasts visible on a stripperzombie is the same thang. Some people are offendedby what ever reasons. But having kidz in the game would maybe cause issues of releasing the game in different countrys? I am not an expert.

In the States - nudity is frownd upon on. In germany its gore while nudity is not an issue. In other countrys it might be gayness - whatever.

My humble opinion - It's a game. Just Pixels - Those things listed above are part of the real world. Give the option to turn those off, but don't pretend it doesn't exist.

So thumbs up from me.

 
Personally I would like to see kidz-zombies in the game. Why? Because of immersion and the possibility of having real freakout situations that go beyond a jumpscare.

...

My humble opinion - It's a game. Just Pixels - Those things listed above are part of the real world. Give the option to turn those off, but don't pretend it doesn't exist.
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It's kind of paradox when people talk about immersion on the one hand and on the other hand that it's just a game that all are just pixels.

Apparently it's only a game when it's opportune. Otherwise it is a post apocalyptic world in which you are one of the last survivors.

The Fun Pimps should incorporate garden gnomes into the game. Then you have something small to shoot at.

 
Honestly Shinebloossom, I don't know how you can say that both questions would have the same answer.
Whether you agree with people choosing not to play a game that permitted/encouraged players to shoot children, I don't think you can credibly argue that it wouldn't stop some people from buying that game.

It absolutely for ■■■■ed sure would I think.

Given that, purely from a marketing point of view if nothing else, the lost revenue from those potential customers who won't buy a game with child zombies in it, needs to be more than offset by revenue gained from people who bought the game specifically because it did have child zombies in it, and I say that, because the vast majority of customers, those who don't care one way or the other, will buy the game regardless.

So, I think it's practically self-evident truth that the number of people who would refuse to buy a game with child zombies in it is greater than the number of people who will only buy a game with child zombies in it, and therefore, again, purely from a marketing point of view, TFP would be crazy to put child zombies into the base game.

Modders can if they want, and I've no doubt (and no judgement) that it would be a popular mod, but I think there's almost no chance at all that TFP would ever put them into the base game, and I think they're 100% right not to.
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As i said. They would have same answer. Yes, there would be people discouraged to buy the game because of child zombies. And yes, there would be people encouraged to buy the game because world is full of weirdos. See, same answer :) Both are "yes". Also, there are people who would not be moved by it.

Of course, you might be right from marketing point of view. Might. I think so, too, that there would be more discouraged than encouraged, but most still wouldn't care.

It could be a DLC heh. "Super horror gory ways to die". I would buy it. Many other people would. And there would be no discouraged people.

I'd like to add my thoughts to the discussion. Just for Background - I am 38, have three Children (16YF) (7YF) (2months M).
Personally I would like to see kidz-zombies in the game. Why? Because of immersion and the possibility of having real freakout situations that go beyond a jumpscare.

Is it not enough to have "normal" zombies in the game? sure. But if it were a feature, I would not say no. Some mods already have them.

But I can also see why its is not implemented into the game. Having bear breasts visible on a stripperzombie is the same thang. Some people are offendedby what ever reasons. But having kidz in the game would maybe cause issues of releasing the game in different countrys? I am not an expert.

In the States - nudity is frownd upon on. In germany its gore while nudity is not an issue. In other countrys it might be gayness - whatever.

My humble opinion - It's a game. Just Pixels - Those things listed above are part of the real world. Give the option to turn those off, but don't pretend it doesn't exist.

So thumbs up from me.
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Slavic not-giving-a-■■■■-about-anything master race? :D

It's kind of paradox when people talk about immersion on the one hand and on the other hand that it's just a game that all are just pixels.Apparently it's only a game when it's opportune. Otherwise it is a post apocalyptic world in which you are one of the last survivors.

The Fun Pimps should incorporate garden gnomes into the game. Then you have something small to shoot at.
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I think that Purple Heart meant that it would be nice to have it as immersion and make it feel more realistic so you can really dive into the game and the "horror" part really becomes "horror".

And at same time, it is just game. Why being offended by virtual world?

See, you can strive to make the virtual world the best possible (subjective for everyone) while still being able to separate fantasy and life.

 
It's kind of paradox when people talk about immersion on the one hand and on the other hand that it's just a game that all are just pixels.Apparently it's only a game when it's opportune. Otherwise it is a post apocalyptic world in which you are one of the last survivors.

The Fun Pimps should incorporate garden gnomes into the game. Then you have something small to shoot at.
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We haven't really spoken about killer clowns yet, have we? :cocksure:

 
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We haven't really spoken about killer clowns yet, have we? :cocksure:
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I wouldn’t mind it, as long as there were abandoned, run-down carnival POIs to go along with it so that it makes sense. Like the cheerleader and football player... though I think that the number of these that show up is not justified by a RWG lacking in football fields.

 
hey crater.

your last point is to me the difference. that instance comes with an obvious highlighted moral element.

walking into poopy pants day care with an ak and letting rip doesnt.

please all, dont get me wrong - im noy upset here. i love the game to bits but would find child zombies off putting. i dont see the point is all.

i dont see the point of stripper zombies either and nudity certainly does not offend me.

i do believe ones age and experiences lends more weight to ones opinion especially in a potentially charged conversation. so thanks to those who do indicate their real life game stage.

im sure most of us dont want to hear a rant from a spotty 13yo on a topic such as this.

 
hey crater.your last point is to me the difference. that instance comes with an obvious highlighted moral element.

walking into poopy pants day care with an ak and letting rip doesnt.

please all, dont get me wrong - im noy upset here. i love the game to bits but would find child zombies off putting. i dont see the point is all.

i dont see the point of stripper zombies either and nudity certainly does not offend me.

i do believe ones age and experiences lends more weight to ones opinion especially in a potentially charged conversation. so thanks to those who do indicate their real life game stage.

im sure most of us dont want to hear a rant from a spotty 13yo on a topic such as this.
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That is the whole reason I suggested child zombies - We have multiple POI's - Boarding school, high school, and two different children's daycare POI's. It would correlate with having kid zombies. We have two nude dancing POI's, hence the connection to the stripper zombies.

Having them have a function or unique ability (faster/more agile/ability to climb walls/ceiling) and correspond to the environment that they "live" in makes sense.

Should they remove Poopy Daycare or the Special Tots folk? Should we remove the dog boarding house and The Bear den because of animal cruelty arguments?

Where does the line get drawn? Personally, I recognize that this is an adult game. However, I was able to figure out how to filter out zombie strippers if I want to.

I like the idea of zombie clowns also, but agree that there should be a tie to a POI(s) to warrant them.

I don't get the moral argument personally. I have family that works at the Sheriff's office but that doesn't mean I'm going to throw a fit about shooting "cop zombies". I have five kids myself, but not horrified at the idea of having zombie kids in a game. There are plenty of child actors that portray all sorts of "evil" - Brightburn ring bells? I think they're cool and look forward to more challenge and scares. I'm able to separate reality from a fantasy world. I also wouldn't go around shooting people's heads off in real life either. Should we be offended and petition movies like Pet Cemetery?

 
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