PC Changes to Screamers

[AtomicUs5000]

A little will not be sufficient. I've done some testing and mining a single block of iron ore can increase the heat by 6 to 12% depending on how many points you have in miner69 and how good the auger is. Break 10 to 15 iron ore blocks in one chunk and it is screamer time.
 

Sounds about right. Maybe do 5 or 6 per chunk to avoid screamers, if that's the goal. All I know is the OP doesn't address how bad this could become. In fact, some of the ideas in it would make it nearly impossible to use an auger at all. Add in torches and forget it completely.
 

 

[Kalen]

Sounds about right. Maybe do 5 or 6 per chunk to avoid screamers, if that's the goal. All I know is the OP doesn't address how bad this could become. In fact, some of the ideas in it would make it nearly impossible to use an auger at all. Add in torches and forget it completely.
 

Yeah, I'd rather see them turn down the heat but increase the threat.   I'd rather have 1 or 2 really threatening screamers a day than 15-20 nuisance screamers.

 

[RipClaw]

Sounds about right. Maybe do 5 or 6 per chunk to avoid screamers, if that's the goal. All I know is the OP doesn't address how bad this could become. In fact, some of the ideas in it would make it nearly impossible to use an auger at all. Add in torches and forget it completely.

I can also simply go 30-35 blocks below the surface if I don't want to have any more screamers. But I think this is a bug because the heat rises much slower when you mine coal, nitrate, oil shale and stone.

 

[Liesel Weppen]

I wasn't asking to stop it, lol.... I was just commenting that mining metal with an auger generates a ton of heat

Can you put "a ton of" somehow in numbers?

As i said earlier, i go mine on need. I go for the surface boulders and start there so my mines are scattered over the map, not in the same chunk as my base, and not that near, often 200-300 blocks away from my base.

My mine is usually not alligned to chunk borders and in the end for sure bigger than 16x16, so it covers more than one chunk.

I recently mined until my inventory was full (first row was equipment, everything else was mined, so stone, iron, lead, coal, nitrate). With auger, without breaks, like... halb an hour (realtime) (definetely not deeper than 35 blocks). Still not a single screamer.

Of course auger increases the heatmap, but how much do you need to mine if you do that in a fresh chunk without reasonable heatmap increases? Here was stated, that while mining the spawn lots of screamers always. Like going 10 minutes in a mine and that will spawn dozens of screamers.

It's NOT. You can mine an whole hour and it will still not increase heatmap enough to spawn a screamer. If you get screamers over and over there might be another source that increases the heatmap, then the mining might give the additional bit to trigger a spawn.

 

[Kalen]

Can you put "a ton of" somehow in numbers?

As i said earlier, i go mine on need. I go for the surface boulders and start there so my mines are scattered over the map, not in the same chunk as my base, and not that near, often 200-300 blocks away from my base.

My mine is usually not alligned to chunk borders and in the end for sure bigger than 16x16, so it covers more than one chunk.

I recently mined until my inventory was full (first row was equipment, everything else was mined, so stone, iron, lead, coal, nitrate). With auger, without breaks, like... halb an hour (realtime) (definetely not deeper than 35 blocks). Still not a single screamer.

Of course auger increases the heatmap, but how much do you need to mine if you do that in a fresh chunk without reasonable heatmap increases? Here was stated, that while mining the spawn lots of screamers always. Like going 10 minutes in a mine and that will spawn dozens of screamers.

It's NOT. You can mine an whole hour and it will still not increase heatmap enough to spawn a screamer. If you get screamers over and over there might be another source that increases the heatmap, then the mining might give the additional bit to trigger a spawn.

See what @RipClaw posted a few posts ago

I've done some testing and mining a single block of iron ore can increase the heat by 6 to 12% depending on how many points you have in miner69 and how good the auger is. Break 10 to 15 iron ore blocks in one chunk and it is screamer time.

I find if I spend an entire in game day (90 minute days) mining, as I said, I get 15-20 screamers.

 

[Liesel Weppen]

Break 10 to 15 iron ore blocks in one chunk and it is screamer time.

Then it would happen basically always.

But it doesn't. At least for me. I haven't gotten a single screamer.

Miner skills maxed, all mining books read, Auger was iirc T5. So almost everything maxed. NO. SINGLE. SCREAMER.

 

[Kalen]

Then it would happen basically always.

But it doesn't. At least for me. I haven't gotten a single screamer.

Miner skills maxed, all mining books read, Auger was iirc T5. So almost everything maxed. NO. SINGLE. SCREAMER.

Not sure what to tell you.... I get them all the time.

 

[Liesel Weppen]

Not sure what to tell you.... I get them all the time.

That's the thing i want to tell you: I don't.

Maybe it's a bug for me? Maybe it's a bug for you? Is anybody of us doing something wrong?

Do you get screamer spawns at your base while running forges, etc.? I get them there, but they are really rarely, too. With that amount of heat production in previous versions i got basically an endless stream of screamers.

 

[Kalen]

That's the thing i want to tell you: I don't.

Maybe it's a bug for me? Maybe it's a bug for you? Is anybody of us doing something wrong?

Do you get screamer spawns at your base while running forges, etc.? I get them there, but they are really rarely, too. With that amount of heat production in previous versions i got basically an endless stream of screamers.

I'm very rarely at my base, so not really.

It should be easy enough to tell if there is a problem.... just watch the heat in your chunk while mining and see if its going up.   

 

[RipClaw]

Then it would happen basically always.

But it doesn't. At least for me. I haven't gotten a single screamer.

Miner skills maxed, all mining books read, Auger was iirc T5. So almost everything maxed. NO. SINGLE. SCREAMER.

I am curious. Please switch to debug mode with dm and press F8 twice to see the heat.

I had a world that was bugged and where no heat could be generated. The heat was always at 0% and the event counter was always 0. But in a new world the heat increased as expected.

 

[Liesel Weppen]

I had a world that was bugged and where no heat could be generated. The heat was always at 0% and the event counter was always 0. But in a new world the heat increased as expected.

Heat could be generated since we had screamers at our base, even if they only occured rarely.

Sadly i can't check directly, because the server i played on in not accessible anymore.

Any clues why this occured on this map? In our case we played on a nitrogen map. Could this be the issue?

 

[RipClaw]

Any clues why this occured on this map? In our case we played on a nitrogen map. Could this be the issue?

The bugged world was an old one I created in A19 EXP and upgraded to A19 stable and then A19.1 I have to create one with Nitrogen and test it there.

 

[Liesel Weppen]

The bugged world was an old one I created in A19 EXP and upgraded to A19 stable and then A19.1 I have to create one with Nitrogen and test it there.

Hmm, ours was created with the first A19 final. We intentionally waited until A19 is out of experimental.

 

[stample]

Iirc it is on each hit. I forget where I saw it though, is there a journal entry or loading screen tool tip about the activity map (aka heat map)?

Its actually both.  The auger makes a sound, which adds heat as defined in sounds.xml.  And a block breaking also adds (a trivial amount of) heat.  You're getting most from the auger running, though.

<SoundDataNode name="Auger_Fire_Start"> <AudioSource name="Sounds/Weapons/Motorized/Auger/AugerAudioSource"/>
    <Noise ID="4" noise="60" time="2" heat_map_strength="1.0" heat_map_time="90"/>
    <Sequence/>
    <AudioClip ClipName="Sounds/Weapons/Motorized/Auger/Auger_Fire_Start"/>
    <AudioClip ClipName="Sounds/Weapons/Motorized/Auger/auger_fire_lp" Loop="true"/>
    <AudioClip ClipName="Sounds/Weapons/Motorized/Auger/auger_fire_end"/>
    <LocalCrouchVolumeScale value="1"/> <CrouchNoiseScale value="1"/> <NoiseScale value="1"/> <MaxVoices value="3"/> <MaxRepeatRate value="0.01"/> </SoundDataNode>


Each time the auger "runs" (which I think is 5x/sec) its adding 1 heat to the heat map.  That event lasts roughly 150 seconds, then drops off. (There's a note at the top of sounds.xml that explains heat_map_time, and 60 ~= 100 seconds)
 

So to prevent screamers, you need to run your auger less than 20 seconds of every 150ish.

 

[stample]

Actually that seems wrong.  I don't get screamers in 20 seconds, even with an auger.  I wonder if its only adding 1 heat each time you start firing.

Question for everyone:  How do you mine with an auger?  Do you start/stop frequently when moving between blocks, or just hold it down continuously, and do you get lots of screamers or few?

I usually hold it down continuously unless I have to move more than 5 or so blocks to get to the next spot.  So I'm not stop/starting frequently, and I rarely get screamers.

 

[RipClaw]

Actually that seems wrong.  I don't get screamers in 20 seconds, even with an auger.  I wonder if its only adding 1 heat each time you start firing.

My tests showed me that the auger only adds 1% heat when you click the mouse button.

Question for everyone:  How do you mine with an auger?  Do you start/stop frequently when moving between blocks, or just hold it down continuously, and do you get lots of screamers or few?

I am mining with the auger and keep the mouse button pressed. Still I get a lot of screamers when I mine iron or lead.

Some players seem to be creating long mine shafts. I don't do that. I follow the veins and expose a large area. Then I mine the resources layer by layer.

I did some tests and when you hit a iron or lead block it generates 0.2% heat per hit. When the block breaks it generates 2.84% heat. A stone, coal or nitrate block only generates 0.5% heat when it breaks and no heat is generated when you hit it. Depending on your miner69 skill and the quality of the auger you get 6-12% heat per block in total.

When I mine stone, coal or nitrate I get never a screamer but when I mine lead or iron I get a screamer every 2-3 minutes.

I assume this is either a bug or lack of balancing. Otherwise I can't explain why the differences between mining different resources are so big.

 

[Kalen]

I am mining with the auger and keep the mouse button pressed. Still I get a lot of screamers when I mine iron or lead.

Some players seem to be creating long mine shafts. I don't do that. I follow the veins and expose a large area. Then I mine the resources layer by layer.

This is exactly what I do

 

[hiemfire]

Otherwise I can't explain why the differences between mining different resources are so big.

Hitting/breaking metal blocks with tools or weapons also increase heat, likely at the same rate as mining metal ore.

 

[AtomicUs5000]

Then it would happen basically always.

But it doesn't. At least for me. I haven't gotten a single screamer.

Miner skills maxed, all mining books read, Auger was iirc T5. So almost everything maxed. NO. SINGLE. SCREAMER.

There is also a random factor involved. There is a chance that a screamer will not spawn. This was added in the beginning of A18.
In my tests, I did find that in some areas where the terrain was very rugged, no screamers would spawn. The console would report something once heat reached 100, but nowhere to be found.
Either one of these things could skew test results.

Sadly i can't check directly, because the server i played on in not accessible anymore.

Now there is a third factor. Was this server modded? Could it have been modded without you knowing exactly what was modded?

 

[Liesel Weppen]

Was this server modded? Could it have been modded without you knowing exactly what was modded?

No, it was not modded. Completely vanilla, only external thing used was nitrogen.