PC Challenge for the DEVs and everyone else.

HerrKingsley

HerrKingsley

Refugee
So I have been thinking about some of the complains A17 has got.

And some, not all but some boils down to the tediousness off early game.

We start out with a grown person that has been living in this world for a couple of years, by the looks of degeneration of the buildings. I would say at least 10 years.

The character has probably has been living alone since there are no communities or other survivors except traders.

During this time the character got some basic skills on how to survive. Or that's at least what we think.

So the challenge is how long can you survive without using ANY skill points?

Let this be a reference of discussion on balancing in early game.

My firmest belief is that a LVL 1 character in this scenario should be able to survive for a long time. Maybe not by a comfortable life (thats what perks and skills are for) but at least survive.

Let the Challenge begin!

 
Are you challenging us to actually play the game without leveling or make suggestions on how the early game could feel more appropriately balanced?

Like you just want to know how long we can survive, or how long we SHOULD be able to survive?

 
I'm tired and don't want to actually play A17. But I think it shouldnt be unreasonable to expect to survive right up until your first horde night as a fresh character. Thats with playing smart of course. Not raiding POI from day one.

 
I'm tired and don't want to actually play A17. But I think it shouldnt be unreasonable to expect to survive right up until your first horde night as a fresh character. Thats with playing smart of course. Not raiding POI from day one.
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I don't spend any points until nightfall on the first day and I raid POI's quite well using my beginner bow and club on day one. How else am I going to get better equipment? I find it doable, challenging? Yes but that's why I like it. Obviously others may not.

A playthrough without spending any points? Sounds interesting, but I'm not sure that's for me either.

 
I'm challenging you to play the game without using skill points. And if you will comment on your experience.

And I personally think we should be able to survive infinite if we play smart.

But then there is gs that will probably kill us.

I have just started I navazgane... to be continued!

 
I don't spend any points until nightfall on the first day and I raid POI's quite well using my beginner bow and club on day one. How else am I going to get better equipment? I find it doable, challenging? Yes but that's why I like it. Obviously others may not.
A playthrough without spending any points? Sounds interesting, but I'm not sure that's for me either.
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Maybe I should reiterate, not jumping into any POI from day one, rather raiding smart.

And you hit the nail on the head, why is raiding POI the only way to progress now, even slighty? Doesn't make much sense that you jump straight into POI's rather than scrounging for basic gear THEN dipping a toe in POI. Maybe the coming xp balance will fix that. But as it is, progression is pretty messed up.

To be clear, I only died 3 times before I got bored of A17. One was foolish mistake on my behalf, going too deep into a POI too quickly and getting surrounded before I had even gotten a hang for the game again. One from getting cornered because zombies now respawn inside cleared rooms with no way they could have possibly got there, and finally due to the bug where after you die you respawn bleeding because the game thinks you're standing in a damaging block or something. Unfortunately I just opened my inventory to try and work out what was killing me/see if i had any healing stuff, when apparently all you need to do is move.

I didn't find the game hard, even playing on survivalist (because i wasn't jumping straight into insane after such a long break).

 
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Maybe I should reiterate, not jumping into any POI from day one, rather raiding smart. And you hit the nail on the head, why is raiding POI the only way to progress now, even slighty? Doesn't make much sense that you jump straight into POI's rather than scrounging for basic gear THEN dipping a toe in POI. Maybe the coming xp balance will fix that. But as it is, progression is pretty messed up.
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I should probably clarify also. I don't care to craft or build early in game so I can either gather basic supplies in trash, or go into a POI gathering the same items (and possibly cobblestone or concrete mix from pallets) while hopefully getting something better form loot room. If I am not going to invest in crafting this is how I improve my tools etc.

Maybe it is messed up, but my wife hasn't set foot in a POI yet on day 14. She's the crafter/builder type and seems to be doing just fine.

Different strokes for different folk I guess.

 
Question. Should I mod the xp for level so I won't level at all or see what gs a lvl 1 can survive?
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I would keep the xp for the gs gain. Would be interesting info, at least I would think so.

 
I should probably clarify also. I don't care to craft or build early in game so I can either gather basic supplies in trash, or go into a POI gathering the same items (and possibly cobblestone or concrete mix from pallets) while hopefully getting something better form loot room. If I am not going to invest in crafting this is how I improve my tools etc.
Maybe it is messed up, but my wife hasn't set foot in a POI yet on day 14. She's the crafter/builder type and seems to be doing just fine.

Different strokes for different folk I guess.
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Yeah but is that party XP or a solo game? Because doesn't sound viable for solo.

 
Question. Should I mod the xp for level so I won't level at all or see what gs a lvl 1 can survive?
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If your gamestage never increases I would think you will survive forever? BM day 7 is pretty tame even with normal gamestage advancement.

On the other hand, with a normal advancing gamestage I would think it will eventually become insurmountable without spending points on horde night.

That wasn't really an answer was it lol, sorry.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah but is that party XP or a solo game? Because doesn't sound viable for solo.
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For her it is party XP and you may be correct, I have not tried a primary builder crafter char in SP yet. It would definitely be challenging. I play primarily the same in SP or MP. SP is just a slower advancement, mostly because I use workstations I find in the world, since I don't put many points in INT.

 
I think you guys are right. Keeping xp is more interesting. I dont think 7 days will be hard just boring asf. But we will see. I might change my mind.

 
I think you guys are right. Keeping xp is more interesting. I dont think 7 days will be hard just boring asf. But we will see. I might change my mind.
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It wont be boring if you set them to jog during the day. Making them all just a little bit faster should be interesting. Honestly, I would loot hard for the first four days. Just loot everything. Get the quest done ASAP so you can see how far away the trader is. Pop in there to see him and take the closest job that is not buried supplies you can. Should find you at least a little town. If he has a working forge, you win. Either way, you should loot while your game stage is low.

 
It wont be boring if you set them to jog during the day. Making them all just a little bit faster should be interesting. Honestly, I would loot hard for the first four days. Just loot everything. Get the quest done ASAP so you can see how far away the trader is. Pop in there to see him and take the closest job that is not buried supplies you can. Should find you at least a little town. If he has a working forge, you win. Either way, you should loot while your game stage is low.
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Oh I dont mean the zombies being boring. But stamina, and health.

I think the trader will have to become my best friend so I can get some proper food...or maybe not use trader at all?!

 
I think of the starting toon more as someone who actually hasn't been out in the apocolypse much. Maybe a lab tech in a final government bunker that finally falls to the infection. Not disagreeing w the ~10+ years decay look, but, hell if they'd already survived the -downfall-, which would likely be the toughest part; you'd have all the non-infected a--holes to deal w as well... We'd be starting out as a pretty bad mofo :D

But, yes, definately agree w the testing premise, regardless of backstory :)

I'd add a couple qualifiers due to RNG; no Cookling Pot till morning of day 4, same for any found tools/weapons/clothes. Just a Stone Axe/Shovel, Wooden Club, Wood Bow, Stone Arrows, Bone Shiv, Plant Fiber Clothes.

To even begin to feel the mining/chopping pain I think you'd need to add something like: must have at least ~3-500 Wood, 650 Stone & 450 Clay by Noon of Day 7: = 200 stone arrows and 448 Cobblestone Rocks to build a 3x3x4-high (middle empty) tower for horde.

Just my .02 cents :)

Edit: personally I wouldn't use Traitor, but I'm one of those that don't like them in general. I don't think TFPs would agree you shouldn't leverage them... :(

Edit2: just saw the other thread about Boiled Eggs no longer require Chef perk; true, but still need a Cooking Pot, and that's RNG so... <slightly eveil grin> No Pot For You! :D

 
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And no stam mod to make the stamina problem go away???

good on you carbonkid. I'll be interested to see what you think of it.

Personally I think it would be boring as hell because even with good weapons you have to repetitively beat them about the head so much that that alone gets stale fast.

harvesting would be such a high level of torture that I couldn't begin to fathom it.

Next play through I suggest giving yourself 1000 skill points, max out your skill tree and play the same way... sorta.

See which one is more fun.

 
And no stam mod to make the stamina problem go away???
good on you carbonkid. I'll be interested to see what you think of it.

Personally I think it would be boring as hell because even with good weapons you have to repetitively beat them about the head so much that that alone gets stale fast.

harvesting would be such a high level of torture that I couldn't begin to fathom it.

Next play through I suggest giving yourself 1000 skill points, max out your skill tree and play the same way... sorta.

See which one is more fun.
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Not being able to improve your stamina could end up being problematic (I like the stamina progression btw) But being a maxed out player from the get go would be extremely boring and have zero challenge (to me) I'm not sure what the point of the game would be if you start maxed out, esp in single player.

 
Not being able to improve your stamina could end up being problematic (I like the stamina progression btw) But being a maxed out player from the get go would be extremely boring and have zero challenge (to me) I'm not sure what the point of the game would be if you start maxed out, esp in single player.
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It's a contrast. being the slob with no skills and slow gathering vs "overpowered" and not limited.

Which one is more fun?

Personally, I don't like either scenario, I don't know how either would be fun. but those are the contrasts in the game. You're working towards being that crazy overpowered monster.

 
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