PC Catering to New Players hurts Replayability for Experienced Players

I was a volunteer moderator on the forums of a company that MakeS billions. I moderated in their game console forums. It was Xhausting sometimes, but I did it because I was engaged in the community, cared about the product, and wanted to contribute. The desire to be helpful without compensation is a difficult thing for many, many people to understand. You are not alone.
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Can confirm. I moderate a forum for a larger gaming company, specifically the tech help section.

It is so mentally tiring I can't even begin to explain, but I know you'll get it. :)

 
Can confirm. I moderate a forum for a larger gaming company, specifically the tech help section.
It is so mentally tiring I can't even begin to explain, but I know you'll get it. :)
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Internet fist bump: [Place Fist Here]

The most tiresome were the ones who turned rational business decisions into rants ab...

I'm just sad that my former favourite game has sold out
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...oh nevermind here it is.

Sold out to whom exactly?

 
This is my favourite.

"Oh my god! You guys are releasing new cosmetic items and can't even fix the game! Stop making art and fix it!"

Dude, you do NOT want the art team messing with the code.

 
Internet fist bump: [Place Fist Here]
The most tiresome were the ones who turned rational business decisions into rants ab...

...oh nevermind here it is.

Sold out to whom exactly?
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Sold out as in selling out their integrity for the big $$$$$. Shin feels TFP has abandoned the original soul and vision of the game in order to make more money.

 
Sold out as in selling out their integrity for the big $$$$$. Shin feels TFP has abandoned the original soul and vision of the game in order to make more money.
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Its true tho the game was made easier to attract more players in which tfp could bring in more money. Was stated many times tfp needed to attract new players and that their game was to hard and by dumbing it down new players will feel more compelled to play the game. But that i understand it is business. But my point is why so far as to make ot past where it needed to be. Tfp could have simply made a new mode before adventurer and called it newbie. then the other difficulty levels continue with where the game was going.

Pretty simple to add the game as it is to the newbie mode. And taper the others more difficult and the way it was going.

I also remember when people were first complaining bout the games difficulty mm stated he wasnt gonna bow down to making the game easier.

But by doing this they contradicted themselves with stating this game needs to cater for everyone.

 
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However Trying to put others down cause your sour isnt a good look nor is diminishing threads with your childishness rather then contribute actual conversation.
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I'm not sour. :)

I wasn't putting anyone down. I was simply explaining what Shin meant. I didn't even make a statement of agreement or disagreement though I do have a perspective on it. At the top of this very page is a contribution that has nothing childish about it. I mention what I disagree about your position and also what i agree about it. Just scroll up.

 
However Trying to put others down cause your sour isnt a good look nor is diminishing threads with your childishness rather then contribute actual conversation.
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FFS man you gotta hide that stuff under a <spoiler> tag. Do you even know how much a good irony meter costs?!? I bought the last two Costco had and now I'm out. Ugh.

 
I'm not sour. :)
I wasn't putting anyone down. I was simply explaining what Shin meant. I didn't even make a statement of agreement or disagreement though I do have a perspective on it. At the top of this very page is a contribution that has nothing childish about it. I mention what I disagree about your position and also what i agree about it. Just scroll up.
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Hmm i will remove. Happily admit i misread..

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FFS man you gotta hide that stuff under a <spoiler> tag. Do you even know how much a good irony meter costs?!? I bought the last two Costco had and now I'm out. Ugh.
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I am on my phone

 
To your point that I wasn't speaking to the actual criticism: I usually don't engage people on their direct criticism unless I disagree with it. I don't disagree that the game has become streamlined and that currently the balance is such that for experienced players it is very easy to get going and established. As an experienced player I don't like the middle steps of crafting being removed nor do I like the lighted path inside dungeons. I've stated that myself elsewhere many times which is why I haven't been disagreeing with that aspect of the criticism.
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You've adresssed my actual point in your personal message, if you were serious, I'm obviously pleased with that one, but here, you miss the points I made. The thing you ignored in my post was my criticism of your behaviour, while, yes, you also ignored the core of stallions criticism and instead got cought up in one or two sidenotes. Since you seem to agree that that's less than ideal, there's nothing to add from my end.

What I do disagree with is:
1) That for new players the game is too easy and simplistic and becomes boring quickly. Contrary to the picture painted by stallionsden there are people who started in A17 and already have 100's of hours. There are people migrating from the console edition and based on the threads we are getting asking for help it doesn't appear that they are coming from a straight up more complex version to a more simplistic version. Of course, there will be those who get bored of 7 Days to Die very quickly but that has also been true since the beginning.
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It's fine to disagree. But do we know how many new players stay for 100's of hours and how many quit bored by the lack of a challenge? It's speculation.

2) That the developers should cater to experienced players who find the game simplistic and easy because they "solved" it long ago.
3) That allowing modders to be the ones to complexify and ramp up the challenge from a base vanilla experience that is accessible to a wider range of people is a bad thing.
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I have not seen anybody saying any of this. The boredom doesn't arise because we learned the game, it has risen from the changes in A17. Asking not to dumb the game down is not asking to cater to experienced players, and here comes the point of 1), that a game, that is not challenging, will also turn off new players much sooner, than a more challenging game would.

Want to help out new players? Make a proper in-game tutorial. Certainly worth the effort.

Finally, I'm sure noone complained that you can mod the game. I guess the point was that you HAVE to mod it to squeeze a challenge out of it. Something completely different.

Those are the things I've responded to because I don't agree. But if you need an affirmation from me
1) that the game has been made more streamlined and simplistic in some ways and

2) that for experienced players there is no longer any threat of starving, or dehydrating and

3) that the dungeons with their guiding lights are more simplistic than they would be without the clues and

4) that all empty containers are presented as opened and non-interactive blocks which simplifies looting and

5) that crafting in general has lost interesting intermediary steps that made it more of a process rather than a single click event and

6) that there aren't enough outdoor zombies to make exploration threatening for experienced players

then here you go: Yep. I agree.
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It's not necessary to agree. You're allowed to like everything about the current design of the game. But if you attack someone over their criticism, it should be fair to at least deal with what they're actually trying to say. As it otherwise looks like it's your job to hold criticism down by ad homineming critics.

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I was a volunteer moderator on the forums of a company that MakeS billions. I moderated in their game console forums. It was Xhausting sometimes, but I did it because I was engaged in the community, cared about the product, and wanted to contribute. The desire to be helpful without compensation is a difficult thing for many, many people to understand. You are not alone.
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But actually, helping others is nothing special at all. I'm sure everybody has done it many times.
Working for a rich company, following orders, for example, how to deal with the community and such, and all that without compensation is different. But I'm not interested in your motivation (no offense of course, I don't even know who you are), but my old buddy Roland's, who does not really seem to enjoy (parts of) his job (anymore).

 
H
Fallout skyrim borderlands all have replayability over and over cause its not easy it doesnt hand the easy route to players.
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hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Love those 3 games, but they are like the most easy games out there.

 
replayability of those 3 is more what I am focusing on and as well no matter how many hours you have played of those games you can play it over and over again

 
replayability of those 3 is more what I am focusing on and as well no matter how many hours you have played of those games you can play it over and over again
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I agree. But so is 7d2d. It's still in alpha and "some players" even have over 1k hours on it. Oh wait.

 
I agree. But so is 7d2d. It's still in alpha and "some players" even have over 1k hours on it. Oh wait.
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see you talking bout stuff you dont know. most my hours have been pre a17 been here since a5. Modding and prefabbing count for the rest. I havent played for ages a actual game...

lol funny as hell :-)

 
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see you talking bout stuff you dont know. most my hours have been pre a17 been here since a5. Modding and prefabbing count for the rest. I havent played for ages a actual game...
keep baiting and being childish lol funny as hell :-)
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So, saying I agree about 1 thing you say, but disagreeing about the other, which is saying a game doesnt have replayability, when theres tons of players with hundreds of hours on it in alpha stage, is beeing childish? Sure, if it makes you feel better about defending the undefendible.

Sorry, but 7d2d is 101 of replayability. Does that mean you cant get bored of it? No, as in any game. But getting bored of a game doesnt mean it doesnt have huge replayability.

 
So, saying I agree about 1 thing you say, but disagreeing about the other, which is saying a game doesnt have replayability, when theres tons of players with hundreds of hours on it in alpha stage, is beeing childish? Sure, if it makes you feel better about defending the undefendible.
Sorry, but 7d2d is 101 of replayability. Does that mean you cant get bored of it? No, as in any game. But getting bored of a game doesnt mean it doesnt have huge replayability.
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Wait. 7 days to die doesn't have replayability?

News to me. Coming up on 4k hours. And does not include all the time I played before alpha 5. And after that 4k+ hours I still cant wait to get home today and work in my Bloodbath and Beyond v3.0 base. Shrug

 
So, saying I agree about 1 thing you say, but disagreeing about the other, which is saying a game doesnt have replayability, when theres tons of players with hundreds of hours on it in alpha stage, is beeing childish? Sure, if it makes you feel better about defending the undefendible.
Sorry, but 7d2d is 101 of replayability. Does that mean you cant get bored of it? No, as in any game. But getting bored of a game doesnt mean it doesnt have huge replayability.
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then you did not read thru the thread at all and see all the posts. Pre a17 the game was challenging. To the new ones that joined a17/a18 yes to them they will think this is challenging etc but it is no where near the path it was heading prior since a5 (since thats when i joined)

i have 2k on skyim alot of those are unmodded maybe 1k. fallout 4 alot as well the witcher i have played sa well again and again and i could play it again and still find it challenging and all.

IDK when you joined but all that mainly has been said is there has to be a medium for all. yet now it is just for new players. Vanilla should not have to rely on mods to survive. Skyrim/fallout/the witcher all survive with out mods (altho you can mod if you wish) and enjoy no matter how many hours ones played.

a18 I have played maybe 3 4 games max lasted before turning it off 20 min.

I have prefabbed in the prefab editor for hours and created mods and mod fixes/updates etc but no real game persay without needing mods. (I play both vanilla and modded games. as well you cant post a bug with a modded game so I like to play both.

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Wait. 7 days to die doesn't have replayability?
News to me. Coming up on 4k hours. And does not include all the time I played before alpha 5. And after that 4k+ hours I still cant wait to get home today and work in my Bloodbath and Beyond v3.0 base. Shrug
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with mods tho i bet

 
you dont have to bet, you can watch his hundreds of youtube videos. Some playthroughs are with mods, but most are unmodded.
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why the hell would i bring this up lol and involve mods considering discussing mods in dev diary has been a no (so to speak) its purely for the vanilla game purely and simply. no mods.

obviously you didnt read the posts and exactly what this thread was about. I know stupid heading misleading as well and again stupid heading

 
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