PC Catering to New Players hurts Replayability for Experienced Players

Sorry to say but, the "city" adjustments doesn't do anything. Only the biome portions themselves.
I changed every biome and just picked that one as an example as it was first in the list. It illustrates the pattern I used. Never thought of setting respawn to 0. Thanks for that! This could be what I have been missing.

So what's the difference between

<spawn maxcount="3" respawndelay="0" time="Day" entitygroup="ZombiesAll" />

<spawn maxcount="3" respawndelay="0" time="Day" entitygroup="ZombiesAll" />

and

<spawn maxcount="6" respawndelay="0" time="Day" entitygroup="ZombiesAll" />

 
I changed every biome and just picked that one as an example as it was first in the list. It illustrates the pattern I used. Never thought of setting respawn to 0. Thanks for that! This could be what I have been missing.
So what's the difference between

<spawn maxcount="3" respawndelay="0" time="Day" entitygroup="ZombiesAll" />

<spawn maxcount="3" respawndelay="0" time="Day" entitygroup="ZombiesAll" />

and

<spawn maxcount="6" respawndelay="0" time="Day" entitygroup="ZombiesAll" />
Rock on!

The biggest thing to take away is they have stuff in the xmls that no longer apply, and that was one of them :D

Ofc maybe one day it'll be used again (shrug), but for now :(

edit: sorry. Not fully sure why it works, but it makes 2 zeds spawn closer together for whatever reason. bug?! not sure. only that it works ;)

 
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Rock on!The biggest thing to take away is they have stuff in the xmls that no longer apply, and that was one of them :D

Ofc maybe one day it'll be used again (shrug), but for now :(

edit: sorry. Not fully sure why it works, but it makes 2 zeds spawn closer together for whatever reason. bug?! not sure. only that it works ;)
Iif you throw dice, throwing 2 three-sided dice is different from throwing 1 six-sided die. The former can't throw a 1 at all and will throw a 4 in a third of all cases.

Just a guess, this could be the same.

 
Iif you throw dice, throwing 2 three-sided dice is different from throwing 1 six-sided die. The former can't throw a 1 at all and will throw a 4 in a third of all cases.
Just a guess, this could be the same.
Possible. Either way. Not going to question why it works, but if it is a bug? .... I hope they don't "fix" it ;)

 
It's really not. I've barely played FO4 and I have to stick it on the hardest difficulty to be a challenge.


Darkest Dungeon, XCOM, FTL...

All rogue-like games. All punish you to hell and back as soon as you start playing. All of which have achieved critical acclaim in some way (and two of those are indie titles). Even MINECRAFT is hard to begin with if you have no-one to guide you.

So no. The vanilla game does not have to be accessable at all. In fact, i've been keeping an eye on twitch and folks just starting in A17/A18 are sticking it on Insane, always run, nightmare zombies just for a challenge now. Folks didn't used to do that in earlier alphas (admittedly there was no nightmare speed, but insane, always run gameplay was not as common as it is now).

Vanilla could do with a kick up the arse to be more challenging and more focused on the survival aspect. I feel 7DTD has lost that and become more of a looter/shooter these days, and that's quite sad.
That doesnt speak for everyone. I know people who are enjoying A18 compared to older versions and the game is still challenging for them/us. (Adventuer Difficulty)

 
That doesnt speak for everyone. I know people who are enjoying A18 compared to older versions and the game is still challenging for them/us. (Adventuer Difficulty)
And yet the vast majority seem to be cranking it up because it's too easy.

If you're struggling, look at how you're playing. Contrary to popular belief, it IS possible to play a game like this wrong.

 
And yet the vast majority seem to be cranking it up because it's too easy.
If you're struggling, look at how you're playing. Contrary to popular belief, it IS possible to play a game like this wrong.
Wait...you don't just have the majority? You have the VAAAAAAST majority on your side?!?!!?!

BTW, you have made his point for him. The game has a learning curve that cause people to need "to look at how they're playing". It is possible to "play a game like this wrong" precisely because it isn't obvious or basic or simple for those who haven't already put many hours into it and they will need time playing before it becomes simple for them.

The fact that the game has settings that can be "cranked up" to satisfy elite gamers like you and your vast majority is a pro in its favor and not a con like you are making it out to be.

I hate it when people talk about the modability of this game as some sort of derogatory thing or treat it as some sort of sly thing that people are doing in spite of the developers as though the modders are pulling one over on TFP and Madmole and the rest are probably ashamed and chagrined that lots of people like to play Ravenhearst or Darkness Falls. The truth is they are overjoyed that people are using the tools they provided to create alternative ways of playing-- and that includes greater difficulty.

It is unfathomable to me why someone like Stallionsden who is a modder and can bake into his version of the game whatever difficulty he wants and has zero hesitation or reticence or phobia about playing a modded game-- why he would even complain about Vanilla of all things. Why would he ever play vanilla with his 1000's of hours?

What the heck is wrong with people turning up the difficulty if they want? Even if it is the vast majority of servers--does that even scratch the surface of the number of people playing this game SP and not represented at all in your inventory of who is playing on Insane? We really don't know. All we know is that A18 is the most popular and longest living version of all time and even if that is thanks in big part to mods like some people like to point out as though that settles the argument it STILL counts because the mods are possible because of the generosity of these developers.

 
Wait...you don't just have the majority? You have the VAAAAAAST majority on your side?!?!!?!
BTW, you have made his point for him. The game has a learning curve that cause people to need "to look at how they're playing". It is possible to "play a game like this wrong" precisely because it isn't obvious or basic or simple for those who haven't already put many hours into it and they will need time playing before it becomes simple for them.

The fact that the game has settings that can be "cranked up" to satisfy elite gamers like you and your vast majority is a pro in its favor and not a con like you are making it out to be.

I hate it when people talk about the modability of this game as some sort of derogatory thing or treat it as some sort of sly thing that people are doing in spite of the developers as though the modders are pulling one over on TFP and Madmole and the rest are probably ashamed and chagrined that lots of people like to play Ravenhearst or Darkness Falls. The truth is they are overjoyed that people are using the tools they provided to create alternative ways of playing-- and that includes greater difficulty.

It is unfathomable to me why someone like Stallionsden who is a modder and can bake into his version of the game whatever difficulty he wants and has zero hesitation or reticence or phobia about playing a modded game-- why he would even complain about Vanilla of all things. Why would he ever play vanilla with his 1000's of hours?

What the heck is wrong with people turning up the difficulty if they want? Even if it is the vast majority of servers--does that even scratch the surface of the number of people playing this game SP and not represented at all in your inventory of who is playing on Insane? We really don't know. All we know is that A18 is the most popular and longest living version of all time and even if that is thanks in big part to mods like some people like to point out as though that settles the argument it STILL counts because the mods are possible because of the generosity of these developers.
see there you go again. I wasnt talking bout modding the game i was talking bout vanilla. I also play that as well as a modded version ( well when i did actually play the game last).

you obviously need to re read what I stated clearly many times what the vanilla game was missing you have put in general section where you told me to put it. yet here you are doing it in a19 dev diary doing exactly what you said I shouldnt.. Who polices the devs...

nothing to do with modding or playing a modded game a majority of people need mods to make this game interesting and replayable in vanilla..

wait was this spose to be in general or here since you replied in here.. so i replied in here...

Please clear this up as you say one thing and did the complete opposite so i am confused i dont want to get in trouble again :-D

And also clarify isnt the a19 dev diary etc to talk and discuss the vanilla game not modded game. Thats what the dev diary is isnt it.

 
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Wait...you don't just have the majority? You have the VAAAAAAST majority on your side?!?!!?!
BTW, you have made his point for him. The game has a learning curve that cause people to need "to look at how they're playing". It is possible to "play a game like this wrong" precisely because it isn't obvious or basic or simple for those who haven't already put many hours into it and they will need time playing before it becomes simple for them.

The fact that the game has settings that can be "cranked up" to satisfy elite gamers like you and your vast majority is a pro in its favor and not a con like you are making it out to be.

I hate it when people talk about the modability of this game as some sort of derogatory thing or treat it as some sort of sly thing that people are doing in spite of the developers as though the modders are pulling one over on TFP and Madmole and the rest are probably ashamed and chagrined that lots of people like to play Ravenhearst or Darkness Falls. The truth is they are overjoyed that people are using the tools they provided to create alternative ways of playing-- and that includes greater difficulty.

It is unfathomable to me why someone like Stallionsden who is a modder and can bake into his version of the game whatever difficulty he wants and has zero hesitation or reticence or phobia about playing a modded game-- why he would even complain about Vanilla of all things. Why would he ever play vanilla with his 1000's of hours?

What the heck is wrong with people turning up the difficulty if they want? Even if it is the vast majority of servers--does that even scratch the surface of the number of people playing this game SP and not represented at all in your inventory of who is playing on Insane? We really don't know. All we know is that A18 is the most popular and longest living version of all time and even if that is thanks in big part to mods like some people like to point out as though that settles the argument it STILL counts because the mods are possible because of the generosity of these developers.
The "vast majority" comment comes from the fact I watch a lot of 7DTD stuff on YT, twitch, etc. A LOT of comments in chats/videos/etc seem to be folk saying that's how they play as well (regarding difficulty) because it's too easy. Way, way more than I remember from earlier alphas, and that includes some folks i've seen saying they started in A17 and cranked it up.

Shortly followed by other folks saying "If you think this is too easy, go install a mod or play an older alpha." ;)

Personally, I still occasionally play vanilla. One reason is so I can look for basic mechanics I do/don't like so I know what to leave in or remove, and another reason is... well... sometimes it's just nice to play the game the way TFP intended (even if I still personally believe it's a pale shadow of what it used to be).

And I think that's the problem. A lot of us on here do remember what the game used to be, and we miss that, and a lot of that ISN'T easy to mod back in. The old bloodmoon system where zombies spawned on all sides? Can't easily mod that in (already looked into it). Fertalized farmland? Can't easily mod that in due to missing texture and microsplat. New biomes? Can't easily mod that in due to microsplat AND RWG won't spawn them. Older RWG where we could essentially have any sized map? Can't mod that back in at all (from what i've seen, though I will freely admit I don't know enough C# to even begin patching the RWG code).

There's some stuff we just CAN'T put back, but I do appreciate the extra options we are being given.

Speaking of... I do have a question.

How does onCombatEntered work? Is it when you shoot a zombie or when one "aggros" you? And when is the player considered to be "not in combat"? Obviously "when dead" is going to be one of options there (you or the zombie) but does it also happen if you run away far enough for the zombie to lose interest?

EDIT: To add to the paragraph above, will we be getting an onCombatLeft trigger in A19? :D

 
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see there you go again. I wasnt talking bout modding the game i was talking bout vanilla. I also play that as well as a modded version ( well when i did actually play the game last).
you obviously need to re read what I stated clearly many times what the vanilla game was missing you have put in general section where you told me to put it. yet here you are doing it in a19 dev diary doing exactly what you said I shouldnt.. Who polices the devs...

nothing to do with modding or playing a modded game a majority of people need mods to make this game interesting and replayable in vanilla..

wait was this spose to be in general or here since you replied in here.. so i replied in here...

Please clear this up as you say one thing and did the complete opposite so i am confused i dont want to get in trouble again :-D

And also clarify isnt the a19 dev diary etc to talk and discuss the vanilla game not modded game. Thats what the dev diary is isnt it.
Don't worry yourself, stallions. This will get moved. You might go check out the thread and you'll see that I moved my own participation in those debates as well. No double standard. It all gets moved when it strays away from interacting directly with Madmole so that these large discussions don't drown out legitimate questions from people who appreciate directly interacting with the devs. But then... you need a bit of a buffer right now rather than directly interacting with the big guy.

 
Not even 70 people in this poll. Not saying i don´t agree but the polls on the forum can never be accurate. I think one of the polls with the most votes was about 200. Right now 14k people are playing. Relying on forum polls is something TFP shouldn´t do ever. Nore should anyone to make any arguments.

Regarding OP: Maybe wait until there is bandits? This will turn around a lot i assume. You are playing a game that is not ready yet and demand the full experience. That is an oxymoron.

 
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5K hours here. Loving the game more than ever. Id say there is /a lot/ of us.
Cheers
I would say you are truly just talking bout your self and maybe a handful. and i did write in english i said alot i didnt say all. Some people need the game to be easy to play ;-)

 
Not even 70 people in this poll. Not saying i don´t agree but the polls on the forum can never be accurate.
Polls can be reasonably accurate if they are a representative sample of the whole user base. For this poll not to be somewhat accurate we'd have to prove the sample was biased. Do you think that people who post on these furms are unusually prone to playing on easier levels? I don't. Or at least have no reason to think that.

 
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Polls can be reasonably accurate if they are a representative sample of the whole user base. For this poll not to be somewhat accurate we'd have to prove the sample was biased. Do you think that people who post on these furms are unusually prone to playing on easier levels? I don't. Or at least have no reason to think that.
The polls. The sales of the game can never be truly measured. Only true measurement would be a complete inclusion. Current players on the forum and Ex players as well as all those not on the forums.

There is complete reasons many long timers whom have devoted alot of their time with this game have left. Others whom carry on cause mods are saving this game.

Ofc the kids of this generation will buy the game cause they dont need to near on do anything to win. Dont forget sales of the game some bought 7 dtd multiple copies also cause they were keen on the game when it was a challenge and scary and offered real threats and crap your pants moments.

Yes modding ability of a17 and a18 is far superior. But the gameplay aka as mentioned prior challenges fear factor threat etc are gone. Adding bandits wont change this.

Cause as stated many times apparently the game cant handle many zs or bandits or a combo of both.

Vanilla should be scary not a breeze. Have the setting for newbie and have different results. Ie: newbie setting - easy how the game plays now. Hints every thing given to the pkayer to make it easy for them dungeon poi path direction clues etc.

Next level - twice maybe three times the challenge scare and threat value of newbie setting.

3rd hardest setting chaos from the get go no easy hints no here go this way in dungeon poi. How the game was pre a17.

4th and 5th and 6th settings again difficulty above again of its predecessors.

That way new players can get a feel for the game and then move up.

Currently the threats dont equate to anything other then a hiccup.

 
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Again, I think that almost none really bothers to distill stallionsden's root problem here! And him being rather hyperbolic doesn't help much. And I think his root problem is more about unpredictability, rather than flat difficulty.

 
Again, I think that almost none really bothers to distill stallionsden's root problem here! And him being rather hyperbolic doesn't help much. And I think his root problem is more about unpredictability, rather than flat difficulty.
Absolutely wrong i am afraid. Not exagerating anything. What the hell does unpredictability got to do with anything.

Maybe i dont like the easy ... oh wait i have already stated the issue with the game if you dont want to read and just throw in wong assumptions etc go for it lol... i am correct i stand by my statements.

Read the first post on the first page for starters. Nothing to do with blocks items etc. The long timers never got babied we got thrown in to chaos crafting on the run where you had to actually place the ingredients into the correct slot of the crafring grid was difficult. We didnt have assist recipes to know how to make things etc. We learnt it by playing and using our brains.

Again repeat i am not saying make it only so only long time players can play. Just remove the challenge and difficulty blockers such as the lamps pointing you which way to go in a dungeon poi.

Making zs a threat and scare factor again. Populate the cities on the st more. Plus other chest sheet assit stuff.

 
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But again you didnt add anything interesting or meaningful or contribute to the discussion but to antagonize. **yawn**

 
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Again repeat i am not saying make it only so only long time players can play. Just remove the challenge and difficulty blockers such as the lamps pointing you which way to go in a dungeon poi.

Making zs a threat and scare factor again.
Not antagonizing you, the opposite actually. The quote above has everything to do with unpredictability and randomization, especially in dungeon POIs. But then again, I may have been the one who somehow misunderstood what you are saying, who knows.

 
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