PC Can we fix the stagger forward zombies do when hit?

Scyris

Scyris

New member
It makes no sense, in any other game its a backward stagger, why do these things stagger forward? its so stupid, looks fake, and has some fake difficulty just like the 0 animation attacks, are these ever going to get fixed? its been a issue since zombies became able to attack while moving, the animations weren't edited to account for that it seems. Then you have the stupid rage system, I call these the cheapshot system as its all fake difficulty. ANy plans to fix any of those? or at least the forward stagger, and zombies able to attack during other animations with 0 attack animation and hit the player?

 
Scyris said:
It makes no sense, in any other game its a backward stagger, why do these things stagger forward? its so stupid, looks fake, and has some fake difficulty just like the 0 animation attacks, are these ever going to get fixed? its been a issue since zombies became able to attack while moving, the animations weren't edited to account for that it seems. Then you have the stupid rage system, I call these the cheapshot system as its all fake difficulty. ANy plans to fix any of those? or at least the forward stagger, and zombies able to attack during other animations with 0 attack animation and hit the player?
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A couple of mods that might help you work around frustrating zombie mechanics:

https://www.nexusmods.com/7daystodie/mods/577

And this:

https://www.nexusmods.com/7daystodie/mods/221

Not sure if they can override Afterlife zombies though.

 
Fixing it would imply that it isn´t done on purpose by TFP. This is a mechanic to cover up for the lack of bigger numbers of zombies we have to deal with.

 
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Why aren't you kiting the zombies around?  You know if you Don have a knockdown effect on your weapon they can easily push past your weapon to hit you.

And which weapons are you expecting to stagger an opponent?  Clubs, pledges, and batons?  Sure.  Punches, knives spears?  Nah.

Guns?  Nope. Maybe the shotgun, but nothing else would cause a stagger back animation.  We'll maybe the sniper and m60, as those hit the hardest.

 
Scyris said:
It makes no sense, in any other game its a backward stagger, why do these things stagger forward? its so stupid, looks fake
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I'm probably one of the few that like it. I don't think it is fake or stupid. If their weight was distributed mostly forward they're going to stagger forward. The impact of a melee weapon or a bullet is not going to convey enough force to overcome the person's momentum. If it could, it should be knocking you back when you fire the gun, or pulling you off balance by swinging it.

In my mind, the bigger question is why aren't experienced player accounting for it in their fighting style? You know it happens sometimes. Back up after you swing.

 
@zztong its like they forget they are fighting things that have no survival instinct.  they want to eat the living more than anything else.  they also know that all it takes is 1 hit to infect them.

 
Javabean867 said:
@zztong its like they forget they are fighting things that have no survival instinct.  they want to eat the living more than anything else.  they also know that all it takes is 1 hit to infect them.
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maybe someone posting a vid of them doing the back and forth, in and out dance of combat and still getting hit thru solid walls  or extendo arm hits with no animation. would help?  I get what you are saying, you do have to try to avoid getting hit...duh...it is the hits that really should not have connected that get frustrating. I don't think anyone minds the combat they just want the animations to reflect what they are seeing and doing.

 
HammerDano said:
I don't think anyone minds the combat they just want the animations to reflect what they are seeing and doing.
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Ah, well I could certainly get behind that as much as is possible/practical.

Javabean867 said:
We'll maybe the sniper and m60, as those hit the hardest.
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Things you think about in the shower... Those really powerful rounds probably pass through their targets. If so, they fail to impart all of their energy into the target. The guy firing it though possibly soaked all of that energy into their shoulder... well other than bipods on the ground, vehicle mounts, or other assistance.

 
The forward stagger is here to stay. It isn’t a glitch or an oversight or unintended behavior. It is a separate animation and behavior than the knockback animation and behavior.  There are times when a hit does knock them back and there are times when their momentum and lack of self preservation causes them to shrug off a hit and barrel forward. Such animations don’t get into the code by mistake…lol

Rage mode is here to stay. I do believe that it should have a toggle for those who don’t like it. But it isn’t a glitch or unintended behavior that needs fixing. 
 

Hitting players through solid walls and doors is not intended but has proven to be a difficult bug to fix. I’ve seen it come and go throughout the years and I’m sure they will be able to improve it again. Same with dropped animations, crouching to standing animations, and other obvious glitches that they are able to reproduce. 
 

Finally, fake difficulty?  Come on. It’s real. 

 
Roland said:
Finally, fake difficulty?  Come on. It’s real. 
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(EDIT: After being "interpreted strictly" thrice from this comment, I just point out that it isn't strict nor am I talking about the way it's coded; it's metaphorical/"comparable to". The faster zeds with stagger resistance are in my experience practically impossible to avoid getting hit via the lunges. That's what I'm referring to here. Back to the original: )

It's not difficulty, it's GM damage. "Whenever you're in melee range of a zed, there's a 10% chance per tick to inflict damage on you. No matter the state of the zed, or you." There's nothing you can do to avoid it, it's not "difficulty". The only winning move is not to play; melee or the game, up to you ;)

Roland said:
fixing
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"Fixing" is such an annoying word in the context; you can claim that if it isn't broken there's nothing to "fix", but I can claim that the game mechanics need fixing even if they're not buggy. Makes it hard to partake in a good willed convo.

 
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theFlu said:
It's not difficulty, it's GM damage. "Whenever you're in melee range of a zed, there's a 10% chance per tick to inflict damage on you. No matter the state of the zed, or you." There's nothing you can do to avoid it, it's not "difficulty". The only winning move is not to play; melee or the game, up to you ;)
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Whether that’s true or not I don’t know so I’ll trust that you know what you’re talking about. I’ve never heard that there is a built in 10% chance to take damage just being in proximity to a zombie. 
 

I took the OP’s reference to fake difficulty to mean that the forward stumble and the rage mode behaviors are  mechanics that don’t actually add any difficulty to melee combat. My point is that without them melee would be significantly easier.  Those two mechanics absolutely add some real difficulty into the mix. I remember melee before either was added and it was easier. 
 

Someone can ask for it to be fixed or changed but it amounts to the same thing forward stumble and rage mode are here to stay and dropped animations and hitting through walls are known issues that will be fixed/changed at some point if possible. 

 
Roland said:
I’ve never heard that there is a built in 10% chance to take damage just being in proximity to a zombie. 
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Sacrifices of brevity; it's "like" GM damage. That's effectively what the current situation is, not intentionally, but functionally identical. You'll go in melee range, you'll get hit. A real random "thorns" -effect would be less annoying :)

Yes, a mechanic where a zed lunges forwards Can increase difficulty. Depends a little on your measures for difficulty; one can count "making more bandages" as difficulty, but I don't.

Difficulty in melee implies some form of counter play, either reacting to an event or proper positioning in the first place, or to some extent proper preparation.

For a "zombie lunge", that might involve

- a dodge roll

- a sidestep

- a reflective counter hit to "interrupt" the lunge

These I would easily count as "added difficulty". But currently there's No counter play to a lunge; if you trigger one, you get hit. End of. GM decided you got hit. Either stay out of melee, or get hit. The design doesn't seem to include counter play options; I don't like that.

That is compounded with all the animation bugs and damage resistance modes, the sum of which makes melee basically "slap on the first aid kit when going in, you'll need it". That's fine for MMO's with healer buddies, but it doesn't really fit here IMO.

 
theFlu said:
Sacrifices of brevity; it's "like" GM damage. That's effectively what the current situation is, not intentionally, but functionally identical. You'll go in melee range, you'll get hit. A real random "thorns" -effect would be less annoying :)

Yes, a mechanic where a zed lunges forwards Can increase difficulty. Depends a little on your measures for difficulty; one can count "making more bandages" as difficulty, but I don't.

Difficulty in melee implies some form of counter play, either reacting to an event or proper positioning in the first place, or to some extent proper preparation.

For a "zombie lunge", that might involve

- a dodge roll

- a sidestep

- a reflective counter hit to "interrupt" the lunge

These I would easily count as "added difficulty". But currently there's No counter play to a lunge; if you trigger one, you get hit. End of. GM decided you got hit. Either stay out of melee, or get hit. The design doesn't seem to include counter play options; I don't like that.

That is compounded with all the animation bugs and damage resistance modes, the sum of which makes melee basically "slap on the first aid kit when going in, you'll need it". That's fine for MMO's with healer buddies, but it doesn't really fit here IMO.
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Sorry, but this isn’t my experience. I disagree with several of your statements. Not trying to flex but I’m quite a bit better at melee than your description of the “reality” of the game depicts. I often initiate counters to the forward stumbles, lunging attacks, and rage events and come away not hit. 
 

Would I welcome a button assigned to doing a sideways roll? Sure—for the added variety of combat moves but not because no counter action exists. 
 

We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this point. 

 
All of these problems used to happen a lot more back in the day.   Us old times just got used to stick and move all the time, to always assume the zamb is going to charge forward, so you move while attacking.

I'll say this.  I'd prefer the stagger forward had a more animated attack feature, but my guess is they are just chomping on you with the stagger animation.

 
I think people assume a zombie is going to react the same way a human does. A zombie has zero concern regarding self preservation. They are ALWAYS pushing forward. A human stops and flinches before they are hit, which stops forward momentum. If your momentum/center of gravity is constantly forward of your hips like theirs typically is, you will always fall forward when you lose your balance, unless you get SMACKED hard by a heavy blunt weapon. It seems realistic to me. If you expect them to react like a human, that is half the issue.

 
There are cases when zombies are stagger resistant and will hit you so fast that it doesn't look like there's an animation, until you go frame by frame and see that they did swing at you.


Spoiler


In the other cases that there might not be an animation, I don't think it would matter anyway, because if the attacks were to happen as fast as it does in this video, there's nothing you could do to counter it. I guess if there was a dodge mechanic then you might be able to avoid getting hit if you dodged preemptively, because there would be no way for you to dodge that attack as a reaction. It's too fast.

But ultimately the counter is to not put yourself in that situation. This is on insane/nightmare. The only times I've gotten near death is when I did something carelessly.    

 
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