Ghostlight
New member
+1 on that
PC Bullet sponges
- Thread starter badmojo
- Start date
RestInPieces
New member
The enemies need a general overhaul imo.My advice would beerception ( increases ranged weapon damage ) - Boom headshot
Agility ( gives stamina btw ) - Hidden Strike
Result 1 hit Headshot most ferals including cops.
..............
And yes there could be less ferals guarding the loot in the attics, and sneak could be better so you dont trigger them all jut by "falling" from a small stone, cant jump 1 block high while sneaking... - it will be fixed I m sure, but for the first time it feels like post apocalyptic world that tries to kill you from the start - thats why its post apocalyptic world and not a Disney world.
A good approach described very briefly would be:
-Getting rid of most bullet sponges (except, say, for one specific kind of special, that will have to have a synergizing mechanic like a "swarmer", "forcing" players to prioritize).
-Normal zombie random combat behavior - different zombie behavior profiles to make them more unpredictable (without having "clever" zombies).
-Much rarer specials with their number and types appearing/increasing as the GS progress, with much more threatening special abilities (no superpower abilities needed like sniping zombies, just more status and various other "immersive" effects).
They can get very creative with threatening mechanics without making zombies look like "generic monsters with abilities", get rid of bullet sponging completely and still increase/keep threat level scaling for a long-term playthrough.
Bhaaltazar
New member
I like the idea of zombies have different behaviors or properties.
Like hazmat zombies for example would be immune to burning damage, Military zombies would be more resistant vs bullets ( kevlar is great agains bullets, but not against arrows IRL ), cop zombies can remain bullet sponges and they explode,...
Just as you said so player would have to use different tactics vs. certain types of zombies while exploring or on horde nights. This is a great idea, I dont hink it would be difficult to implement it.
The biome idea is good but given that TFPs are actually reducing biomes, i think its not going to happen. The wasteland in my personal opinion is just a wast of player space. Same with the burned forest. Very few player will live in those biomes and at best they are "walls" that the player quickly crosses or avoids. Biomes need to mix more and have a less strong changeover. When you move from a forest to a burned biome, it changes too much. And the ambient sound alone makes most people avoid specific biomes for living, as it drives you crazy.
I rather like to see something like circle ranges. Where you start the 1km radius is relative safe, maybe green area. But as you venture outwards, you run into more difficult zombies and more mixed biomes. But also actual greater content... But not so radical changing biomes like currently.
The issue is, what is the incentive to venture outside your "safe zone". Loot? I fear not ( currently ) ... Most in game content beyond a specific point is not worth it. This brings us back to the lacking mid and end content that faced A15/A16 ... and A17. At a point you simply do not give a darn anymore about loot because you are surviving plenty or you do not care anymore about the 1001 wrench or cooking pot.
A17 has simply not solved the issues that faced A16 or A15 or A1x... Namely the content to play beyond a specific point has really not changed. Electricity showed a lot of promise. Food spoiling + electricity + power tools + batteries ... so many possibilities. We really do not need the iron / steel tier. We only need Stone - Scrap - Iron/Steal (one tier) - Mechanical...
We also need more diverse zombies. Feral zombies ... sorry, it just does not do it for me. Nothing but bullet sponges. Every feral zombie needs to be a unique like the Wright zombie. We actually need more diverse zombies selection!
And every zombie needs more unique skills. Copy and past zombies just do not do it for me again. It makes it hard to identify the zombies if they are normal or feral. If the Pimps want to reuse normal zombies 3d models for ferals, then give those zombies a different texture so they look more unique instead of this lazy glowing eyes solution.
You can have radiated zombies, but they need to be closer to the map border. Where you have the radiation zone.
RestInPieces
New member
Yes equipment is a whole other thing that can differentiate them (already does for a lot of them like football players or soldiers). Could be expanded with various props having a chance to spawn on zombies, like for example a soldier zombie rarely carrying a grenade on its belt etc.
For the normal zombies they definitely need some more new animations, maybe different hit detection and the scripts faatal is probably working on. Bite animation for example (that always happens on a limbless zombie) needs its own hit detection and could be a more often extra attack instead of the typical swing that a zombie can do when, say, it gets close. Other behavior variations could be a small chance for a zombie tripping towards you (while accelerating) when it gets close or a chance for grabbing in the future. Zombie profiles could determine their "decay stage" (speed, animations and/or animation speed, maybe shaders) among other things and so on.
I think the general goal would be to make them more organic and unpredictable and less like clones.
As for the specials, possibilities are infinite but hopefully they won't feel like "superpower-like" abilities and be more immersive/zombie-like but impactful. Block infection, feral enabler, player to player contracted disease, other status effects etc- in general mechanics that spice up how players must act. One of my favorites would be a new type of "EMP screamer" that disables electricity/or puts out torches for a few moments even if it's more like a "superpower". Would be perfect for horde nights. And increasing GS difficulty should become something more than just needing more bullets to kill an increasing number of glowing zombies.
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Doesnt seem to work on insane difficulty. Level 4 headshot, level 4 sneak attack and level ???perception is still not enough to kill even a normal feral. It is Almost enough tho. At level 5 it should be enough, I guess. But what to do with radiated ferals while you climb to level 100? I started meeting them since level 30. And been ignoring all clear quests from trader, cause they make those quests pretty much impossible.My advice would be
Agility ( gives stamina btw ) - Hidden Strike
Result 1 hit Headshot most ferals including cops.
When shooting irradiated feral wights, 4 headshots with iron arrows - ofcourse pick them 1 by one, don't just drop on them and trigger them all. Shoot arrows at closets so you break the doors and reveal them, better than letting them jumping at you while you try to sneak by.
Almost a year later and nothing has improved.
The new game options are great, but we could use a "Zombie hitpoints" setting so we can finally have hard hitting zombies that might actually die.
Hitting a reanimated human in the head with a sledge hammer should be effective on every difficulty, it should never take a dozen or more hits to take one down.
Unlocking perks should be something that improves your ability, it should not be a barrier that prevents you from playing. I would love to see how anyone can play this game from the start on insane difficulty and actually fight the zombies. I'm sure someone could hide in the wilderness and chop trees until they level up and unlock the right perks to fight, but that's just a workaround. Try it out, start a fresh game on the higher difficulties, spawn in a sledge hammer and see how many times you need to power attack a zombie in the head before they even die.
Bugs, glitches and exploits I can live with, but this is just poorly balanced difficulty modes, and it's ruining the longevity of this game for me. Either I'm the bullet sponge or the zeds are, it gets lame and tedious pretty fast.
The new game options are great, but we could use a "Zombie hitpoints" setting so we can finally have hard hitting zombies that might actually die.
Hitting a reanimated human in the head with a sledge hammer should be effective on every difficulty, it should never take a dozen or more hits to take one down.
Unlocking perks should be something that improves your ability, it should not be a barrier that prevents you from playing. I would love to see how anyone can play this game from the start on insane difficulty and actually fight the zombies. I'm sure someone could hide in the wilderness and chop trees until they level up and unlock the right perks to fight, but that's just a workaround. Try it out, start a fresh game on the higher difficulties, spawn in a sledge hammer and see how many times you need to power attack a zombie in the head before they even die.
Bugs, glitches and exploits I can live with, but this is just poorly balanced difficulty modes, and it's ruining the longevity of this game for me. Either I'm the bullet sponge or the zeds are, it gets lame and tedious pretty fast.
I don't agree at all but I do understand people like to play different playstyles. I wish they would really add more settings into the game that the user can control. The idea of a sandbox game is for players to carefully craft the experience they want. A slider for things like BOTH zombie health and zombie damage can go a long way towards making everyone happy, we can all find our perfect settings.
Have you actually tried it in the current version? All I play is survivalist or insane. They arent that beefy. You dont need to spawn in anything or chop trees.
Start game--> Do starter tasks--> perk 2 levels into sledge--> make stone sledge and stone spear--> Start looting, good 2 go.
Not that I would be against making hard hitting glass cannon zombies, sounds great. But I wouldnt want them all to be low HP, they would be the same as crappy default zombies if they dont hit you.
Xtrakicking
New member
Zombies are usually defined by how extremely weak they are; their strength is always in their numbers. However, this isn't a feasible approach for 7dtd because the game can't afford to have overwhealming amounts of zombies at once without obliterating the performance.
Therefore, the only solution they currently have is to make zombies very tough to kill.
Therefore, the only solution they currently have is to make zombies very tough to kill.
Problem is how do you balance a game that has infinite possibilities per player. You already see the result of that around here.
Guy1- "There is too much loot, its just stupid" (has it set to 200% loot)
Guy2- "Forget the loot, Blood Moons are impossible zombies rip though my defences too ez" (has bloodmoon set to x64)
Guy3- "XP gains are too slow, fix your dumb game" (has 100% xp when he could have put it on 300%)
Guy 4- "Game sucks, I have all the best crap by day 21" (Has it set to 2 hour days)
I get it though, those would be nice options to have.
Where does it end though? Sliders for every stat on every weapon and entity in the game in the main menu? Sliders to adjust the amount your other sliders can slide? Sliders for your slider's slider for that truly unique experience?
I am just joking though, it is a good idea. But if it happens I hope that would be end of it.
Anyways, time for lunch
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I did. Last night I spent a couple hours testing out the different difficulty levels as a fresh spawn with no points into anything. I got lucky and found an iron sledge, but even with that it was a never ending battle on the harder difficulty levels. This is especially true with the lumberjack zombies, on insane difficulty if they hit you once you lose half your health (which is great) but you have to power attack them in the face god knows how many times before they go down. Even the regular zombies were crazy difficult to put down on the higher levels. I can't remember the names but the lowest 2 difficulty levels were the only ones that felt realistic in terms of hits to down a zed. Couple hits or 1 hit seemed to feel right when tackling a regular zed with power attacks using sledge.
Of course this is all just my personal preference.
I can one hit most zombies in my regular game on day 12 with a maxed out sledge on default difficulty. I personally think it's a mistake to make our damage with weapons go up based on perk levels, our ability with the weapon should improve from perks, like stamina usage, animation time, etc, but swinging the same sledge hammer should always net the same damage weather you are a fresh spawn or have 5/5 in the tree.
It feels like I am either spending far too much time on each kill, or bored because it's so easy once i get points into the tree. Early game feels like a chore, late game feels like a cake walk, mid game feels like it never existed.
Yep you are totally different animal than me. For one our definition of "difficult to put down" is oceans apart. Secondly I could care less about what makes sense with "real zombies" since those dont exist. And I will always put the gameplay ahead of realism even if they did exist.
Having low HP high damage zombies on high difficulty (apart from there being 100s of them on my screen) wont cut it for me, I just wont get hit.
Also sounds like you are power attacking too much. You can hit 4-5 times in a row without stamina loss quicker than you power attack and then wait for stamina gain. I only power attack when I stun and it will count, and I am above 70ish Stamina. They will go down quicker then.
Well I might Power attack a non-stunned zombie if I know I am good on stamina, and I know it will be a kill shot because of how many hits he already took, but thats about it.
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Ramethzer0
Well-known member
This is why I tend to play on standard difficulty with specific scenarios in mind, because I follow the Zombieland rule of the double tap.
The special zeds like the cop, wight, feral, and irradiated I consider to be a different genre of undead and a thus a bit tougher. They usually get a free pass, especially in the early game.. It's the heavyset zeds that tend to annoy me the most.
Also, I have a theory about Zombies why they should be strong. It's because they don't have the pain of self awareness. I can see them biting and ripping through flesh pretty easy. Were soft. They are not aware they are also doing damage to themselves and thus will always risk doing so to feed. They also cannot heal themselves. It's when zeds start ripping through concrete and rebar that I feel things have lost their immersion.
On the other hand, one can make the argument that 7 Days Zombie genre is its own Genre and thus should not prescribe to specific movie genres.
The special zeds like the cop, wight, feral, and irradiated I consider to be a different genre of undead and a thus a bit tougher. They usually get a free pass, especially in the early game.. It's the heavyset zeds that tend to annoy me the most.
Also, I have a theory about Zombies why they should be strong. It's because they don't have the pain of self awareness. I can see them biting and ripping through flesh pretty easy. Were soft. They are not aware they are also doing damage to themselves and thus will always risk doing so to feed. They also cannot heal themselves. It's when zeds start ripping through concrete and rebar that I feel things have lost their immersion.
On the other hand, one can make the argument that 7 Days Zombie genre is its own Genre and thus should not prescribe to specific movie genres.
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Heh, also I forgot about the junk turret. If you dont want sponges just keep one of those on your belt. Pretty much negates the sponge effect for every class in the game. Kinda broken imo tbh. a T1 is like 400 dukes at the trader (so less than your first quest)
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Did the fictional zombies get infected with something that makes their skulls turn to titanium? Then they suddenly turn back to bone when you put points into a skill?
I never said anything about "real zombies" I only mentioned my feeling while playing the game in certain scenarios. It's a common thing in video games, if the player does things and the game does not react in a way that seems authentic to the player, the player starts to become less engaged and feel less immersed in the virtual world. It's not that all games need to replicate reality 100%, it's that players have expectations as to what is going to happen based on what would happen in reality. If we went to gas pumps and got canned goods, players would mention it, because they expect gas to be in gas pumps. We don't have to go to the extent of siphoning the gas from underground tanks, which would be realistic, we just need to meet a minimum level of player expectation. When I hit a zombie with a sledge hammer, I expect it to inflict significant damage to the zombie, that's not always the case in this game, so I'm mentioning it.
How do you develop expectations of something that does not and cannot actually exist? How can you assume your fake being is more realistic than someone else's fake being?
Gas pumps actually exist, you are comparing apples to monkey thumbs (oh wait monkeys thumbs exist, so it is even worse than that)
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Wasn't a comparison, it was an example of player expectations.
Why is loot distributed around the POIs realistically? Navezgane doesn't exist in real life, those buildings aren't copies of real life buildings, would the gameplay not be superior if you couldn't just go to the places you know have the loot you need? It would undoubtedly be more difficult if you had to search everything not knowing what you'll find. But, would players enjoy it more? Doubtful.