Royal Deluxe
New member
this sounds good but i hope TFP dont add this (if they do) before 1.0.
Simply because of the history of the usability of the blunderbuss
PC Brainstorming: Ideas for threats
- Thread starter Royal Deluxe
- Start date
Simply because of the history of the usability of the blunderbuss
RestInPieces
New member
Do only action fighting games or soul-like games have dynamic combat? Nope. Combat is probably the worst aspect of the game right now, judging by press reactions (and experience). I'd wish 7D had animations and hit detection on the level of a souls-like game. Ever played Dead Island (or The Forest if you want to compare unity games)?
Last edited by a moderator:
Khulkhuum
New member
My point is 7DTD isn't an action game where you could dodge by rolling or whatever other way from being hit. If you don't want to get hit you get out of the reach, not much more you can do there. I would like to get better hit detection, but not have every zombie get 5-10 different attacks and judging by how they shift in animation to know how they will attack.
They are zombies, either they crawl, lunge at you, wave their arms all around or jump. If this was a boss then or they had weapons, then you can have multiple attacks (overhead, sideways, cross cut, underhand, quick stab, etc.), but not really with fists and teeth.
Still, i think if the zombies were a bit dumber, yet their numbers were the real scare, it would be more beneficial for the game, especially if you could hit more than one at a time with your weapons.
Seen people play the Forest, but no Dead Island. Played Dying Light. Would have to refresh my memory on how things work in each of these games to have a good comparison.
RestInPieces
New member
When I'm talking about random zombie attacks, I am obviously not talking about some martial arts combo or swordplay I saw in Dark Souls, or anything that would indicate a sign of intelligence for that matter, but about more organic/dynamic zombie animations. Subtle differences like different animation speeds, differently angled hand movements, bite/claw differentiation, use of torque and gravity, chance of zombies tripping etc. This wouldn't only enrich combat, but most importantly would make zombies feel less like a horde of predictable, artificial dolls.
Khulkhuum
New member
@RestInPieces
One part of your reply was to differing animations, where i agree that randomization in zombie animation speed and movement speed could be good (just like some zombie types are slower, whether some are faster).
Enhancing their animations so that they feel better - That is a different story altogether. I wouldn't say their animations are bad, although some improvement could be done. Also, additional attacks and "bite attacks with different range" smells to me more of an action game where you predict your enemies movements based on how they prepare before each attack:
1. Short range jump - They half-crouch and then jump.
2. Mid range jump - They crouch fully and then jump.
3. Long range jump - They crouch for longer and then jump.
4. Reaching out - They extend hands in front of them to make a swing with them from above.
5. Small dash - They bend to the back to get momentum and then perform the dash.
6. Flailing arms - They do one swing and start a series.
7.
This is what i'm against, trying to decipher each and every zombie attack if i don't want to get hit. Don't get me wrong, i enjoy this in many games (and i do play souls games a lot), but on the other hand the fighting mechanics don't allow for it NOW. If you want to hit them you have to precisely aim for their bodies, whether they just need to be in a vicinity to hit you. You could be even behind a zombie, yet if they swing you're hit.
Now imagine they have the capabilities to perform short-long dashes towards you. Unless there will be a dodging mechanic, i predict that melee fighting is going to die, because noone will try their luck in fighting close quarters if a zombie could jump after you and insta-hit you. Now imagine you have a wandering horde of 10 zombies and you have to look out for each and every one of them... Not to mention the bloodmoon horde... This is why i don't fight more than 2-3 enemies at a time in souls games... YOU GET REKT!
ON A SIDE NOTE: Just noticed the infection suggestion, cool idea which i wouldn't mind seeing and would definitely add incentive for clearing POIs.
One part of your reply was to differing animations, where i agree that randomization in zombie animation speed and movement speed could be good (just like some zombie types are slower, whether some are faster).
Enhancing their animations so that they feel better - That is a different story altogether. I wouldn't say their animations are bad, although some improvement could be done. Also, additional attacks and "bite attacks with different range" smells to me more of an action game where you predict your enemies movements based on how they prepare before each attack:
1. Short range jump - They half-crouch and then jump.
2. Mid range jump - They crouch fully and then jump.
3. Long range jump - They crouch for longer and then jump.
4. Reaching out - They extend hands in front of them to make a swing with them from above.
5. Small dash - They bend to the back to get momentum and then perform the dash.
6. Flailing arms - They do one swing and start a series.
7.
This is what i'm against, trying to decipher each and every zombie attack if i don't want to get hit. Don't get me wrong, i enjoy this in many games (and i do play souls games a lot), but on the other hand the fighting mechanics don't allow for it NOW. If you want to hit them you have to precisely aim for their bodies, whether they just need to be in a vicinity to hit you. You could be even behind a zombie, yet if they swing you're hit.
Now imagine they have the capabilities to perform short-long dashes towards you. Unless there will be a dodging mechanic, i predict that melee fighting is going to die, because noone will try their luck in fighting close quarters if a zombie could jump after you and insta-hit you. Now imagine you have a wandering horde of 10 zombies and you have to look out for each and every one of them... Not to mention the bloodmoon horde... This is why i don't fight more than 2-3 enemies at a time in souls games... YOU GET REKT!
ON A SIDE NOTE: Just noticed the infection suggestion, cool idea which i wouldn't mind seeing and would definitely add incentive for clearing POIs.
RestInPieces
New member
You have gotten it wrong I am afraid - it's on me for not conveying it correctly. Any action/souls-like combat mechanics are irrelevant to what I want to describe. I am not talking about actions/animations which require a dodging mechanic in order to be dodged or "game-y" abilities like e.g. the spider zombie lunges we have now in the game.
The abilities in your examples are mostly "game-y/action" abilities that you would expect from some monster rather than a walking corpse/traditional zombie. The random zombie behavior I am trying to describe is much more subtle and suitable to a traditional zombie. They certainly wouldn't make the combat more action-like - although they would make it require extra caution, slightly randomizing your required "two exact steps back in order to not get hit" when a zombie attacks, because that spherecast/hit detection width/length never changes, and would create a more "cinematic" experience.
I don't know how I can convey it in a better way - maybe a video example will help:
Last edited by a moderator:
Exxodous
Active member
I installed a modlet that removes invisible animals the other day and although by shear volume food is a non issue it is offset by the constant attack of wolves and bears.
I was quite surprised at how often I'm encountering hostile animals and by the challenge this presents. Letting your guard down for just a moment usually results in being eaten and dang do bears hit hard.
Maybe it's their speed or because it's just different than normal but I'm enjoying the additional threat they create. In a typical day cycle I'll encounter half a dozen wolves, a dire wolf and 3 or 4 bears both regular and zombie variants. Only one dog in 3 days so maybe they are in a different category.
I was quite surprised at how often I'm encountering hostile animals and by the challenge this presents. Letting your guard down for just a moment usually results in being eaten and dang do bears hit hard.
Maybe it's their speed or because it's just different than normal but I'm enjoying the additional threat they create. In a typical day cycle I'll encounter half a dozen wolves, a dire wolf and 3 or 4 bears both regular and zombie variants. Only one dog in 3 days so maybe they are in a different category.
Last edited by a moderator:
Khulkhuum
New member
Okay, i know where you're going with that. I think it comes down to a few changes, which i think won't be easy:
- Make Zs less of a bullet sponge, without scaling hp with gamestage, but make different Z type have varied hp.
- Make them dumber, but work more on their senses, so more reactive to sound or sight, instead of simply gps'ing to players, allowing tricking them in various ways.
- Increase the numbers of Zs altogether, making sleepers even standing in the middle of rooms in POIs, even standing together and less making surprises from hidden spots. Decrease numbers in some POIs, so not every building has 15 families of Zs inside.
- Update their reactions and behaviours so they do move differently in the smaller sense
This way you would get the threat from numbers (as you should in a zombie game), Zs would be more diverse and it would be seen everyway you go, but it would require you to lob many heada off, nothit many times a few heads.
- Make Zs less of a bullet sponge, without scaling hp with gamestage, but make different Z type have varied hp.
- Make them dumber, but work more on their senses, so more reactive to sound or sight, instead of simply gps'ing to players, allowing tricking them in various ways.
- Increase the numbers of Zs altogether, making sleepers even standing in the middle of rooms in POIs, even standing together and less making surprises from hidden spots. Decrease numbers in some POIs, so not every building has 15 families of Zs inside.
- Update their reactions and behaviours so they do move differently in the smaller sense
This way you would get the threat from numbers (as you should in a zombie game), Zs would be more diverse and it would be seen everyway you go, but it would require you to lob many heada off, nothit many times a few heads.
RestInPieces
New member
No it definitely is not easy, asking them to add more animations or to create a separate branch of combat AI. I'd just be happy if existing animations and hit detection were improved. And unfortunately, they have to get past the performance limitations in order to increase the amount of zombies. But yes, you are right in your points, I'd wish the game to feel more organic, "natural", random and "cinematic" as a "real" apocalypse would and less "arcade-y" and artificial.
And as i said a few weeks before somewhere else: Randomize all zeds:
Abilities: Immun to fire, immun to slash, bash, etc. Weakness: fire, slash and so on
But u have to see what zed is immun/weak : F.E.: Fat zeds always burns well, "burned ones" are immun to fire ( A bit boring to masskill with molotovs for me )
Imagine: A fat ( slash/bash immun) spider screamer Oo
Abilities: Immun to fire, immun to slash, bash, etc. Weakness: fire, slash and so on
But u have to see what zed is immun/weak : F.E.: Fat zeds always burns well, "burned ones" are immun to fire ( A bit boring to masskill with molotovs for me )
Imagine: A fat ( slash/bash immun) spider screamer Oo
Last edited by a moderator:
Khulkhuum
New member
@Penzed
Played it a bit and I did see how the zeds are different and i am sure it can be done pretty easily in vanilla. Although the mods i watched (some i did play) added quite a lot of new recipes, which resulted in crafting and inventory panels opening slowly, the amount of content there was astounding. Some of the mods focused on adding new enemies or making the difficulty higher, which i don't mind, but never did i see anything shifting to something i mentioned.
Heightened senses, yet easily to fool. Quick to dispatch, yet the numbers make it a real threat. Fighting Zs is fun and varied, where single enemies are easy, but the hordes provide the challenge. Not needing to kill a zombie with 15 hits.
Come to think of it, this could work quite well... Imagine basic tools and weapons not dealing much damage, yet high-end weapons doing A LOT more. This would make early game tough to stand up to a horde (maybe not impossible), yet later on you could be capable to kill them off easier. The more time passes, the bigger the horde and they come closer to your base defenses, until you start feeling overwhelmed and you need better strategies to stay alive...
Played it a bit and I did see how the zeds are different and i am sure it can be done pretty easily in vanilla. Although the mods i watched (some i did play) added quite a lot of new recipes, which resulted in crafting and inventory panels opening slowly, the amount of content there was astounding. Some of the mods focused on adding new enemies or making the difficulty higher, which i don't mind, but never did i see anything shifting to something i mentioned.
Heightened senses, yet easily to fool. Quick to dispatch, yet the numbers make it a real threat. Fighting Zs is fun and varied, where single enemies are easy, but the hordes provide the challenge. Not needing to kill a zombie with 15 hits.
Come to think of it, this could work quite well... Imagine basic tools and weapons not dealing much damage, yet high-end weapons doing A LOT more. This would make early game tough to stand up to a horde (maybe not impossible), yet later on you could be capable to kill them off easier. The more time passes, the bigger the horde and they come closer to your base defenses, until you start feeling overwhelmed and you need better strategies to stay alive...
Hollowprime
New member
Make crops grow up in months instead of couple days.
...too much?
...too much?
BRING BACK THE SMELL MECHANIC!! I remember the first time logging in to this game hiding crouched upstairs of a house only to be found because I had some smelly food in my bag. How about just making stinky stuff in your bag lower your stealth advantage? By a LOT! Seems easy enough. Make it massively increase the heatmap also.
+1 to weapon jamming. I shoot a lot IRL and when you do, you WILL have jams. At the rate we are firing in this game, definitely.
-1? to Food Spoilage. How would you implement this on a MP server? Time keeps ticking on your food when you are logged out.
+1 to weapon jamming. I shoot a lot IRL and when you do, you WILL have jams. At the rate we are firing in this game, definitely.
-1? to Food Spoilage. How would you implement this on a MP server? Time keeps ticking on your food when you are logged out.