PC Block damage calculations and the new miner gloves

S

seven

Scavenger
I was doing some iron mining and started wondering about the block damage I was doing, why it seemed so low. So, I was going to start going through the xml to figure it out but then thought surely someone else has done it. Actually, I'm pretty sure I've done it in the past but have forgotten.

Anyway, I have

player block damage is at default 100%

miner 69r skill at level 4, so 120% increased block damage

steel pick with ergo grip, bunker buster, gravedigger and iron breaker for 185.9 block damage

iron breaker should give 15% more damage to iron

T6 miner gloves for 50% ore damage

Without miner gloves I do 340 damage to an iron block

Wearing the gloves only increases this to 389

No matter how I juggle the numbers I don't come up with these results

Is the pick block damage for a power attack? If so, then I get 463 and 511 damage on iron

I would expect that to be 470 (185.9x2.2x1.15) instead of 463 but maybe that's rounding errors?

But then, in either case, wearing the gloves doesn't give an increase of 50%. What is the 50% increase applied to?

 
seven said:
I was doing some iron mining and started wondering about the block damage I was doing, why it seemed so low. So, I was going to start going through the xml to figure it out but then thought surely someone else has done it. Actually, I'm pretty sure I've done it in the past but have forgotten.

Anyway, I have

player block damage is at default 100%

miner 69r skill at level 4, so 120% increased block damage

steel pick with ergo grip, bunker buster, gravedigger and iron breaker for 185.9 block damage

iron breaker should give 15% more damage to iron

T6 miner gloves for 50% ore damage

Without miner gloves I do 340 damage to an iron block

Wearing the gloves only increases this to 389

No matter how I juggle the numbers I don't come up with these results

Is the pick block damage for a power attack? If so, then I get 463 and 511 damage on iron

I would expect that to be 470 (185.9x2.2x1.15) instead of 463 but maybe that's rounding errors?

But then, in either case, wearing the gloves doesn't give an increase of 50%. What is the 50% increase applied to?
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Do you know your block damage without any perks or mods?  I'd guess it's being applied to the base damage, but I can't test.

 
Grab a forgetting elixer, start at 0 everything.  see what the base damage is fo a steel pick ax in your hands, then start checking individual modifiers(i would do armor and tool mods before spending perk points).  From there you can see what is being applied when and how.  There are probably quite a few modifiers that are additive, with a few being multiplicative.

 
Riamus said:
Do you know your block damage without any perks or mods?  I'd guess it's being applied to the base damage, but I can't test.
Click to expand...


Javabean867 said:
Grab a forgetting elixer, start at 0 everything.  see what the base damage is fo a steel pick ax in your hands, then start checking individual modifiers(i would do armor and tool mods before spending perk points).  From there you can see what is being applied when and how.  There are probably quite a few modifiers that are additive, with a few being multiplicative.
Click to expand...


Ok, so I fergit everything and then with a naked character started with bare pick, then added back mods and then miner 69r levels, and checked with and without gloves at each step. There is also a 'block damage' figure on the player extended stats page that I'm including as well. Sorry, for the list. A nicely laid out table would work better but I'm sure it would lose all formatting if I added it here.

If "block damage" does assume power attack, I can see that with some compounding errors the 463 and 511 values are real. But I just don't see an increase of 50% anywhere for the gloves. At the low end it adds 42 damage and the high end it's only 49. so it would be something that ranged from low 80's to 98.

no armor, no perks, no mods, pick block damage 151.9
160 normal
266 power
168 stats page block damage

add 50% gloves
202 normal
301 power
211 stats page block damage

add ergo mod, pick damage 160.4
168 normal
275 power
168 stats

+ gloves
211 normal
317 power
211 stats

add iron breaker mod, pick damage 168.9
204 normal
326 power
168 stats

+ gloves
252 normal
375 power
211 stats

add bunker buster and gravedigger, pick damage 185.9
223 normal
345 power
168 stats

+ gloves
272 normal
394 power
211 stats

add miner 69 level 1
252 normal
375 power
194 stats

+ gloves
301 normal
423 power
236 stats

level 2
282 normal
404 power
219 stats

+ gloves
331 normal
453 power
262 stats

level 3
311 normal
433 power
244 stats

+ gloves
360 normal
482 power
287 stats

level 4
340 normal
463 power
270 stats

+ gloves
389 normal
511 power
313 stats

 
It almost looks like it is adding 50 rather than 50%, though not quite, so not sure if that is just the variability in damage and it is adding 50 or if something else is going on.  Definitely not 50%, though.

 
It actually adds less damage the higher you get in miner 69r, 48 extra damage with no points, and 42 at 69r level 4. Yeah, not 50% and doesn't make sense at all.

 
seven said:
It actually adds less damage the higher you get in miner 69r, 48 extra damage with no points, and 42 at 69r level 4. Yeah, not 50% and doesn't make sense at all.
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As I said, that might just be a variation in your damage unless you did multiple tests and got the exact same damage each time.  But it could also be that it's losing damage at higher levels as well.  Either way, it's not working correctly and a bug report should be submitted.

 
Shoot.  So the numbers on the charater page might nit be the full story.  

I think the next test would be to spawn in some stone, some cobblestone blocks and concrete blocks.  I don't think you need to do the forgetting elixir again.  

Smack some blocks and see how the damage works with and without the gloves.  That might get us the info we are looking for.

Thanks btw for being a sport and checking these numbers.  I think we found a bug with the block damage calculation. 

 
From that data set, you can see it's not multiplying with Miner skill, as the increase for every +gloves is the same 49. So it seems it might be added with it:

base x (1 + miner_value + gloves). Each miner rank adds 29.xx (one rounding jump in 4 steps, less than .33), the base number for that would be roughly 29.25 / 0.3 = 97.5. Which would also produce the 49 at gloves 50%.

There's just not a 97 anywhere to be found... 😛 

Hmm, does STR itself increase tool damage somehow? Almost doubling?

 
Javabean867 said:
Shoot.  So the numbers on the charater page might nit be the full story.  

I think the next test would be to spawn in some stone, some cobblestone blocks and concrete blocks.  I don't think you need to do the forgetting elixir again.  

Smack some blocks and see how the damage works with and without the gloves.  That might get us the info we are looking for.

Thanks btw for being a sport and checking these numbers.  I think we found a bug with the block damage calculation. 
Click to expand...


Stone is a one-shot but for cobblestone and concrete blocks the damage doesn't change with gloves, so at least the "ore damage" part works correctly, only changing damage for ore blocks. Well, didn't try other ores, just iron. Just did a spot check on lead, it gives the same damage results as iron, so looks like it works for other ores too.

theFlu said:
From that data set, you can see it's not multiplying with Miner skill, as the increase for every +gloves is the same 49. So it seems it might be added with it:

base x (1 + miner_value + gloves). Each miner rank adds 29.xx (one rounding jump in 4 steps, less than .33), the base number for that would be roughly 29.25 / 0.3 = 97.5. Which would also produce the 49 at gloves 50%.

There's just not a 97 anywhere to be found... 😛 

Hmm, does STR itself increase tool damage somehow? Almost doubling?
Click to expand...


Strength alone has no effect. STR 1 and 10 give the same damage 223 / 272 gloved. Only adding the miner 69r levels increase it.

 
The bonuses are not multiplied with each other, but are all percentages added together.
Please also note that the performance improvement due to quality is included in the bonus. (For tests like this, please use a quality 1 item.)
I'm not good at English so I can't follow the story completely, but does the conversation include the fact that steel pickaxes have a block damage bonus against gravel and stone?

 
All added % is stacked addictively. Steel pick has a base dmg of 85. Maxed miner 69er adds 150% of the 85 base. Power attack also adds from the base.
I believe the only exception is that the steel pick has a bonus 80% dmg to stone which is calculated last


Example: 100% base dmg + 150% 69er, + 50% miner armour, +75% Q6, +40% mods, +10% mining book = 425% x 85 = 361 x1.8 against stone = 650

 
FranticDan said:
All added % is stacked addictively. Steel pick has a base dmg of 85. Maxed miner 69er adds 150% of the 85 base. Power attack also adds from the base.
I believe the only exception is that the steel pick has a bonus 80% dmg to stone which is calculated last


Example: 100% base dmg + 150% 69er, + 50% miner armour, +75% Q6, +40% mods, +10% mining book = 425% x 85 = 361 x1.8 against stone = 650
Click to expand...


Ok, that helps a lot. When I was trying to make the numbers work I had forgotten I had the mining book. Also, including the iron breaker was a bad choice. It adds 10% up front on the base like the other mods, but then the 15% bonus to iron is added at the end (like the stone bonus).

Taking those things into account, the calculated numbers are close, but still off by a bit. That 361 in your example I actually get 364. Or, with a T1 pick, no perks, no mods I get 94 damage for a 85 damage pick. In the numbers from my previous post, the gloves add 42 at the base (no perks, mods) and increases to 49 with perks and mods. If it just adds based on picks base T1 damage I'd expect that to be the same throughout.

Anyway, thank you. That explains most of it.

 
theFlu said:
This bit surprises me.. the effect of every other buff is based on Q1 tool numbers, even if you're wielding a Q6?
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Yes, almost everything uses perc_add. One exception is the bone and hunting knife for the power attack having both perc_add and base_add. You can tell what the base damage of any weapon/tool is by putting in a single mod, then times by 10.

 
FranticDan said:
here is an example if each quality added 100% damage instead of 10%

base damage is 20
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Thanks, I'll take your word for it; although the surprising bit for me was that adding the + 10% from Pummel Pete would then add 2 damage to that bat, not 12, right? I've just always assumed the "quality damage" is base, but .. well, not the first time I'm wrong 😛 

 
theFlu said:
Thanks, I'll take your word for it; although the surprising bit for me was that adding the + 10% from Pummel Pete would then add 2 damage to that bat, not 12, right? I've just always assumed the "quality damage" is base, but .. well, not the first time I'm wrong 😛 
Click to expand...
Correct, +2 dmg on both light and power attacks.
I did a test last week, the lumber jack gloves are better than the preacher gloves but quite a lot if you are using an axe as your weapon, as the lumberjack gloves use base_add to the base damage. Q6 gloves add 15 dmg, the base dmg of the iron axe is 15, so you're literally double the total dmg this way :)

 
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