PC Bladed combat in 17.3
- Thread starter DeathNoble
- Start date
Morloc
Arch Necromancer
Yikes...I bow to your skillz, because the last thing I wan't to see is more fast zombies. As it is, if I bungle a POI break-in and get three irradiated on my butt, it's going to be hard for a while (presuming I've kicked the quest off and need to stay in range) unless I shake them all and try the break again.
-Morloc
Minandreas
New member
Well hence the shove action from Project Zomboid. And I'm also referring more to the standard zombies. I was giving a very very simple example. Radiated zombies are part of the problem with melee honestly. Hell, anything that runs is.
It really is a challenging thing to do well. Making melee combat feel good in a game. If I'm honest, I don't know that I've ever even PLAYED a first person game that made melee combat feel good. Like, Skyrim plays like just as much ass, and it had the resources of Bethesda behind it.
Morloc
Arch Necromancer
It's a hard nut to crack, because if they're too slow, well then...."experience pinatas", if they're too fast; then... "Yakety Sax Funeral". In the outdoors, you've got options, but in a dungeon-crawl if you agro a few runners, you're in trouble quick.
Nets? Bolas?
-Morloc
Nets? Bolas?
-Morloc
Roland
Moderator
You didn't say you couldn't melee but the description you gave of the current state of combat was quite inaccurate and was the description of someone who can't melee. If its just that you are angry about the backpedal nerf and so are exaggerating to make your point seem that much more urgent then I guess you probably do know how to melee. You just aren't accurately representing your side of the debate.
I think the current melee is just as fun as it has ever been which admittedly is a bit meh but better than other games I've played. It could be better and I would love for it to be better. Backpedaling at running speed is not more fun because it removes all challenge. I would like to see moves like a quick dodge, or a shove.
Honestly the slower backward movement paired together with the new faster zombie movements of jog or run make close quarter fighting a lot more thrilling and challenging.
Roland
Moderator
CAN we trip in the game? No. What if we aren't in the desert? There goes the cactus excuse too...
Maybe if we could trip over rocks, bushes, cinder blocks, trash piles, uneven ground,.....ANYTHING AT ALL-- then running backwards would have a balancing factor to it and wouldn't be completely OP. Do you think the player base would be happy about tripping over everything in their way unless they took the time to turn around and look?
They might decide in those circumstances to just turn around and run forward away from the zombies which is what we currently have.
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xXBadDreamXx
New member
removed
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Minandreas
New member
Absolutely.
To be honest, things like bolas would actually be fun as HELL if well implemented. Like, make swapping weapons faster and more fluid, make it so you have to aim Bolas at an enemies legs to make it work. Make it so they can and will struggle free from them/break out of them with time, scaling on how hard a zombie it is.
But to go right along with that, you could kind of get the same effect if they just made it so things like leg shots were actually reliable. Like, if I cap a zombie in the leg while it's sprinting at me, have them faceplant. Giving me an opportunity to go in and smash its head with my sledge. Or place some barbed wire or a landmine.
Right now there's basically no interactive ways of defending against sprinting zombies. Because while you CAN dismember them, and you CAN knock them over. You can't reliably. It's RNG. So obviously, not letting them come near you in the first place is the only real logical play.
I was really hoping that power attacks would just be as simple as a big sweeping swing that, with a medium or larger weapon, would do not a lot of damage but knock everything in front of you on to its ass. Melee becomes sort of a crowd control style player. But instead we got... Use more stamina to hit harder...? I still don't see the point of it really.
Roland
Moderator
You are the one who opened the door with the "fanboy" name calling. You don't get to post your opinions in an echo chamber. People who have a differing opinion do get to voice them regardless of your desire for them to stay silent. I edited both your post and Morloc's response so nobody is calling anyone any names. I do not encourage name calling. I encourage well thought out arguments and counterpoints. You were the one who encouraged "this crap" by being the first to fling it in here. Assuming that someone who has a different opinion than you hasn't really thought it out well and is merely a fanboy and then posting that assumption is going to get you what you got. So I suggest sticking to the arguments themselves.
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RestInPieces
New member
That was not an argument, it was a characterization - the "argument" is the rest of the post which is demonstrating that real life comparisons are pointless, silly and anyone can invoke an example which suits their agenda. And your agenda is nothing else other what I mentioned in the end:
- which is evident, because the only realism concerns you have, serve towards making gameplay more convenient/easy, conveniently ignoring all the rest "realism" inconsistencies.
Your extensive gymnast knowledge should also include the things I mentioned, like a person's stamina/muscle recovery not magically replenishing in real life, as opposed to the game. But I don't hear you complaining about that.
Is that number a product of a survey? Please share. It's already pretty useful as a perk - a game-changer even. It's just that agility isn't worth it very much atm.
1. Seeing your love for survival simulators, as you say below, shouldn't your concern be about the other countless inconsistencies which don't reflect the fact that your character is human, first and foremost, rather than a world class gymnast?
2. Funny that you say that, since you also want to be hitting/kiting a zombie while walking backwards - shouldn't you also complain that you are able to do that since you have to be looking backwards every second?
3. No I didn't misspoke. Speed/stamina usage is the same on every kind of terrain in the game. Rumble, sand, snow, bushes etc. Also, have you ever climbed a steep slope in real life or what?
4. My point is that as a gymnast you should already know that a broken leg is not the only health condition that one can have. If you are near death, bleeding, in great pain etc in real life you wouldn't be able to run as fast, jump as high, attack etc etc. So spare me your convenient real life examples.
5. Again, it's weird that you think I misspoke, since as a gymnast you should know that without sleep, your stamina doesn't replenish in real life. You can't run 24/7 on food, water and coffee - common gymnast knowledge cough cough.
As said above, it's funny that the only realistic aspects you care about, serve the purpose of making gameplay more trivial and how conveniently you ignore anything else that would make gameplay more harsh. You *definitely* care about the game being a survival simulation and you are *totally* not trying to just support your point with a rather cringey excuse for an argument.
Would that be your professional recommendation as a gymnast? Run backwards in order to become faster at backwards running? Did you graduate from the real life LBD gym academy?
warmer
Well-known member
You are making a plethora of assumptions about my intentions with very little information to go on. Not going to argue point by point with you. I am simply stating the fact that backwards mobility is incredibly nerfed from what it once was. Watch any zombie film fight sequence where they retreat while firing a bow or gun on them and tell me how it is done. How does Michonne on the Walking Dead often dispatch walkers with a sword? By backing up and hacking them as they come.
You should be able to easily outrun a walking zombie while moving backwards. That is just basic zombie lore 101. I would be happy with spending triple run stamina to move backward 1/3 run speed. That would be far more realistic than it is now.
This isn't about making the game easy. This is about making other game play tactics viable. Some people want to actually use agility to their advantage rather than tanking, which seems to be your only acceptable method of zombie dispatch.
Some people like to play tanks and others rogues. In my opinion a lot of the movement mechanics make the game heavily weighted towards tank style game play. I would personally like to see more agility based movement perks aside from simply being able to withstand a higher fall.
You should be able to easily outrun a walking zombie while moving backwards. That is just basic zombie lore 101. I would be happy with spending triple run stamina to move backward 1/3 run speed. That would be far more realistic than it is now.
This isn't about making the game easy. This is about making other game play tactics viable. Some people want to actually use agility to their advantage rather than tanking, which seems to be your only acceptable method of zombie dispatch.
Some people like to play tanks and others rogues. In my opinion a lot of the movement mechanics make the game heavily weighted towards tank style game play. I would personally like to see more agility based movement perks aside from simply being able to withstand a higher fall.
Morloc
Arch Necromancer
Well...I might be keen on the idea of a sort of "leap backward". Not sustainable, just a sort of "power move" in combat that allowed you to jump backward.
The problem with any perk or skill or item that increases movement rate is that it becomes the #1 must-have perk/skill/item (see: Journeyman's Boots).
-Morloc
warmer
Well-known member
I see your point. This is why it "only" affects speed in reverse. If you make it max 50% the difference between walk and forward run speed in reverse you can easily be caught by ferals or runners at night. Currently reverse movement is capped at forward walking speed. no jump back, dodge or burst of speed at the cost of stamina is just super unrealistic.
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Roland
Moderator
1) Michonne calmly and easily walks backwards hacking heads in half and completely off. She doesn't run backwards.
2) Unless you increase zombie speed to jog or run, the current backward speed IS faster than the average zombies. You can easily do exactly what Michonne does. Calmly and easily dispatch them while walking backwards.
3) I agree that more agility based actions would be fun and desirable. I'd even be for faster backpedaling being one of the higher tier perks because regardless of your claims it is going to be tough for anyone to full out run backwards and not stumble when the the terrain is uneven and cluttered just as it is depicted in the game. On a track cleared of any obstacles? Sure. As I said, actually put the chance to stumble and fall flat on your back in the game and then go ahead and put backwards running back in and see how many will risk being stunned on the ground and how many will play it safe by turning around and running forward. I would be all for all the clutter being able to trip us up if moving backward.
4) I think of tank as standing there taking hits and giving hits but being able to outlast most things and then healing up any damage. I don't play like a tank at all. I move in and out. I run to a new position to avoid getting surrounded. I work hard at not getting hit at all. And despite the slower backpedaling I am often successful. I don't see my playstyle as being a tank.
That being said, I am all for more abilities and ways to be more agile and faster. I just think the impact of the slower backpedal is being exaggerated. I largely play melee as I always have. Of course, its also always been on the mediocre side admittedly. Then again, go too far into "interesting" territory and you cross over into Tekkan 4 arcade feeling territory...
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No, A17 melee lose most fun. Fun was in A16, when clearing POI on first day, max difficulty with bone knife. It was a real challenge and fun, require skill and stamina management. Now challenge is... take right distance before hit, too far - miss, too close - miss and eat hit from zombie, and do not forget aim before hit.
Roland
Moderator
That, my friend, is simply the same learning curve to re-adapt we have had to go through many times whenever a new alpha adjusted the hit range or whatnot. I felt as you did that the challenge was figuring out the timing and the aiming when I first played A17 but now I’m past that curve and melee is pretty much the same now for me.
My question for you is whether you stuck with it and continued to play A17 or did you give up on it and revert to A16 and are speaking from your memory of your brief try? I stuck with it and sorted out the timing and aiming and now have zero issues (just like almost every previous alpha).
