PC Basebuilding is NOT an Outdated Survivalstrategy!!!
- Thread starter Luzifer
- Start date
around day 2-3 or so we got the forge, threw a bunch of dirt i nthere and frantically ran back and forth with stacks of 100 or so raw iron to smelt down xD. Then we just started to mine the boulders around, and then dug a small mining pit the get stone from. I focused on crafting things, food etc... While the other two focused on being combat monsters
We died a lot during this time 
and looted a shotgun mesiah factory (OMG THAT ROOF).Also remember that you can change settings to how you want in this game. You can make days longer, zombies not run, zombies run always, etc... I'm not sure people are remembering this fact
We made our days 120 minutes since we're adjusting to everything being new and we have a person who is fresh to the game. It also gives us more time for those quests and the like. 60 min days used to be kind of standard but with the new stuff in the game longer days might become standard so you can actually explore and have fun while base building btw we didn't craft our first iron tools, we bought them. We have 4 traders relatively close (less than 2km from our base) and we check up on them when they reset and we sell extra guns and stuff to them. Traders are a great way to get extra defenses for horde night!
Luzifer
Refugee
Yes! you understood what i try to achieve with this Base ON Point- Very Good!!.
I planned to Layer the ground with Barbed wire onto the ground to slow everything down. I know, this Base is rather suited for 2-4 players but it is small enough for one player to successfully defend alone. The Doors are only upgraded to Scrap iron, so retreat or repair is important to keep in mind. To make retreat easier, i recommend walking with wooden frames placed beforehand above them. ceilingheight is no issue i built up to 6 blocks high in ground floor.
Vedui. I dont know how that is Exploiting the Ai. They can realistically reach me over that single Ramp they GPS towards. Letting them Mazewalk on ways I intended them to walk on is what makes the TD element in this game.
Actual Stiltbases Do Exploit the AI or rather did it in a16 As the Ai got Knocked out resulting in walking circles endlessly.
This Basedesign is not the Typical Cagebunker one is used to too.
I Built this Base with the Genre TOWER DEFENSE Primarily in mind. I Chose a Layout and made it Work so far.
Now that i am writing it trying to describe what i had in Mind, i Get to the conclusion i Built a Dungeon for Zeds.
I am more of that Pro active defending player so you will most likely never see me running straight to that first floor, i´ll always run n gun towards next checkpoint.
And even if i´m gonna have a to resort first floor immediately because of whatever reason might apply, they wont get stuck under me running in circles and start bashin walls they´re not supposed to. I Tested that. They walk it all the way to the Ramp up to my Place.
To me the Exploit is defined by the start of uncontrolled bashing trying to get you, like they do when you block yourself up into the Hospital/factory Pois.
InSanity
Refugee
I started my base build partway into day 3 and it took most of the rest of the week to get it all done, minus some little side missions for the trader and looting a couple nearby POIs. I was on nomad with 90 minutes days but I always afked at night and I had a forge in a nearby POI but I didn't get level 20 until day 8 so I mostly used the stone axe. I've used the same base for multiple hordes with only relatively minor upgrades and it's worked quite well. The picture I added shows the damage after the first horde with a gamestage of around 40 using only a hunting rifle and a bow with stone arrows on my part.
Morloc
Arch Necromancer
I was amused when my gauntlet of death worked perfectly, and while I had to expend ammo, which I hate, I was going to make it to sunrise and had added 4 or 5 levels. Unfortunately, at about 1:45 the zombie horde stopped coming. I waited until 2:30, and figured something was bugged. I restarted the game...the horde began again immediately, but they now had Horde GPS, but didn't bother with pathing...at all. They just charged my pillbox ignoring the wide open door and hallway. They took the reinforced concrete down quickly, but I wasn't worried!...I'd left my bicycle right outside my escape route....except....after restarting, it was no longer there. Booooo.
-Morloc
-Morloc
With_Faith
Refugee
I'm excited to see how many different base plans people start to come up with as stuff gets tweaked here and there. I haven't had the most time in the world to play but for the horde nights I have experienced with my group so far we have just roamed and climbed a random 2-3 story building and fought off of there. No late cycle hordes yet though
IgnyteZero
Refugee
We've found on our server that the most viable way to build a base atm is a variant of stilt/tower-type base. Just make a tower with 2-3 or so floors. Surround each level with bars to walk on and shoot through. Dig a moat around the base and reinforce the inner walls if possible (make it at least 4 blocks deep from ground level). Make easy accessible ramps or paths to get out of the moat. Build ramps on each side to the base but keep a 3 block spacing between the ramp and the first tower floor with bars (use wood frames to create a bridge over when needed, but ofc not when fighting zombies).
Do not make floors, tunnels in the basemant and cellar of this tower whatsoever ofc.
Zombie hordes will try to walk over the ramps to rach you, fail to jump and fall down. They will then run out of the moat up your ramp and fall over and over again until they die from falling damage.
Only real issues are now cops, spiders and vultures, but those can be dealt with through other supplemental tactics.
This is of course a multiplayer tactic as digging out that moat will take time, but you'll get enough clay to build cobblestones for ages, that's for sure.
(Still not a good idea to keep forges or anything like that in the base though. So those are preferably kept at other locations.)
It proves though that base defending in A17 isn't harder per se necessarily, just more boring. Because you need to find ways to work around the zombie behaviour instead of actually defending against them.
Do not make floors, tunnels in the basemant and cellar of this tower whatsoever ofc.
Zombie hordes will try to walk over the ramps to rach you, fail to jump and fall down. They will then run out of the moat up your ramp and fall over and over again until they die from falling damage.
Only real issues are now cops, spiders and vultures, but those can be dealt with through other supplemental tactics.
This is of course a multiplayer tactic as digging out that moat will take time, but you'll get enough clay to build cobblestones for ages, that's for sure.
(Still not a good idea to keep forges or anything like that in the base though. So those are preferably kept at other locations.)
It proves though that base defending in A17 isn't harder per se necessarily, just more boring. Because you need to find ways to work around the zombie behaviour instead of actually defending against them.
Last edited by a moderator:
Ghostlight
Refugee
Guys, all this base building theory is only needed for early game (if at all). Once you get around level 100 and can craft level 5 or 6 weapons and have mods to fill the slots and perks to boost your performance (which is all actually a LOT easier than it sounds), you will be 2-shotting even irradiated Zombie Cops, and a flimsy box base will be enough for horde night.
Much as I have berated the early game in A17 in the past, I now find (as do many others) that the player becomes super OP in A17 even faster than you did in A16.
I guess it is fair to add that I mainly play co-op. Solo might be different, I wouldn't know.
Much as I have berated the early game in A17 in the past, I now find (as do many others) that the player becomes super OP in A17 even faster than you did in A16.
I guess it is fair to add that I mainly play co-op. Solo might be different, I wouldn't know.
Ghostlight
Refugee
Moat
IgnyteZero
Refugee
Ah yes, my mistake. I'll edit in the correct spelling.
IgnyteZero
Refugee
Oh indeed it's not. But VERY effective. And a very viable base building strategy, which was the point of the post.
I really prefer the old version BM and AI balance where you could build whatever you wanted and defend it however you wanted. Overground, Underground, Sideways, Waterways, Armored or Nude, Working or Slacking. Diversity is more fun, period.
Last edited by a moderator:
Lets try to define the goal of the horde defense mechanism: A horde base should preferably be best if it uses similar defenses to a castle in the middle ages. I think this is the ideal we want.
Some important rules to achieve that would be:
1) thicker walls generally means better walls.
2) if you have weaknesses, the enemy will try to attack there
3) a castle will have access ways, but they will be designed so that attackers have a hard time using them
4) defenders always have the better position
5) but all defenses can be broken if the attacker has numerical superiority and the defender makes mistakes or does nothing
Look at how the new AI has made 2 a reality and 3 a successful design principle.
Now Fataal said (I'm rephrasing here) that he is working on further reducing exploitable AI behaviour as far as time permits. But it should be clear that the enemy attacking weaknesses of the castle is expected behaviour.
Fataal also said that as a polishing step he will randomize zombie behaviour, so that some will attack not the weakest point but the next-weakest or even fairly strong points. This is consistent with the low intelligence of the zombies but also in a way good tactical behaviour to make the defender have to watch and defend all sides of the castle. It will also mean that even walls that are not meant to lure the attacker to attack them have to withstand those attacks for a while.
That this polishing can't happen now in A17 is easily explained by the fact that randomized zombies makes finding AI bugs at all possible, because with randomisation we alpha-testers would never know if a zombie is doing something he shouldn't do because of a bug or is just a zombie with a randomized behaviour.
Also because we have a game where you start weak and ill-equipped and work up to be great, your first castle will not be great, it will be weak, but only weak enemies will attack, so thats ok.
So
A) A17 will definitely not be the last step on the journey, an important ingredient is missing (randomization) that is missing deliberately
B) your first castle will be small and out of cobblestone or even wood, concrete is an upgrade for later (if you don't like that at all, there are multiple ways around that, creative mode alone has multiple ways around that). If this isn't true and you can build with concrete from the start, even low level zombies would need the massive block damage to go through concrete. Which would make cobblestone walls of any thickness useless.
C) once all stuff is in, i.e. balancing, reduction of exploits, randomization, zombies could have reduced block damage and could still be effective. Cobblestone will be effective again at low levels. Castles that exploit specific zombie behaviour by not being castle-like might fail because of randomized behaviour of zombies.
Some important rules to achieve that would be:
1) thicker walls generally means better walls.
2) if you have weaknesses, the enemy will try to attack there
3) a castle will have access ways, but they will be designed so that attackers have a hard time using them
4) defenders always have the better position
5) but all defenses can be broken if the attacker has numerical superiority and the defender makes mistakes or does nothing
Look at how the new AI has made 2 a reality and 3 a successful design principle.
Now Fataal said (I'm rephrasing here) that he is working on further reducing exploitable AI behaviour as far as time permits. But it should be clear that the enemy attacking weaknesses of the castle is expected behaviour.
Fataal also said that as a polishing step he will randomize zombie behaviour, so that some will attack not the weakest point but the next-weakest or even fairly strong points. This is consistent with the low intelligence of the zombies but also in a way good tactical behaviour to make the defender have to watch and defend all sides of the castle. It will also mean that even walls that are not meant to lure the attacker to attack them have to withstand those attacks for a while.
That this polishing can't happen now in A17 is easily explained by the fact that randomized zombies makes finding AI bugs at all possible, because with randomisation we alpha-testers would never know if a zombie is doing something he shouldn't do because of a bug or is just a zombie with a randomized behaviour.
Also because we have a game where you start weak and ill-equipped and work up to be great, your first castle will not be great, it will be weak, but only weak enemies will attack, so thats ok.
So
A) A17 will definitely not be the last step on the journey, an important ingredient is missing (randomization) that is missing deliberately
B) your first castle will be small and out of cobblestone or even wood, concrete is an upgrade for later (if you don't like that at all, there are multiple ways around that, creative mode alone has multiple ways around that). If this isn't true and you can build with concrete from the start, even low level zombies would need the massive block damage to go through concrete. Which would make cobblestone walls of any thickness useless.
C) once all stuff is in, i.e. balancing, reduction of exploits, randomization, zombies could have reduced block damage and could still be effective. Cobblestone will be effective again at low levels. Castles that exploit specific zombie behaviour by not being castle-like might fail because of randomized behaviour of zombies.
IgnyteZero
Refugee
Keyword: Zombies.
Not occupying french army or zergs or conga line dancers... well you get the idea. Zombies. Siege-behavior should be erratic, not co-dependant or focused.
Last edited by a moderator:
cricket504
Refugee
I'm using a similar design but then tried a bit of pathing to only have one side to defend. Putting up walls on 3 sides of the base and then putting walls 6 out from the base to only let the pathing work them to one side. Down fall of it was multiplayer had attack paths that bust the outer walls since not everyone can stand in the middle of the one side. Finding this in many designs I'm seeing in multi-player.
RestInPieces
Refugee
And at the same time enemies need to have decent AI. There has been a huge improvement towards that goal. As you said, they do need to be more erratic and I am sure more improvements will be done on that front, with more zombie profiles, for example with some zombies that keep hitting foundations even if you move to the next pylon, some others not using the 1st most optimal path to you etc.
You are both critizising the non-randomized behaviour of the Z's (for example mazes of weak materials don't work if some zombies hit on the weak materials). That's why I tried to explain that for the moment predictable behaviour is necessary for the efficient development of the AI and can't be fixed at the moment.
In other words predictable conga-line zombies are not bugs but a development decision because adding randomization last makes development easier.