PC B233 Forge

This.I commented on this a few times as we were getting nice texture updates etc, and pretty much got shouted down.

Then stuff like the behemoth got dropped, but we got a nice trellis to climb.

Bandits pushed back (again) but now we have a "dungeon" of the same zombies.
Kinda have to agree here. Overall if it was a 4 month update it would be a really nice one, but given it has taken over a year, I don't see that much of a difference compared to A16. And most importantly, the biggest features bare dungeons are still WIP.

I'm still sure it would benefit a lot to have smaller release cycles. It takes way less time to fix/balance and most importantly, you don't tunnelvision for too long before community feedback arrives.

And for the love of god, stop redoing everything over and over again... RWG will never be perfect, nor will AI, nor will stealth, but if it takes 1 year to deliver a WIP in all those departments, maybe it's just time to call it a day and focus on end game content.

 
Or you could:
1. Test the early game

2. Actually get a designer that knows how to design FTUE

I'm sorry, but the way the stealth nerfs are coming in and out it seems someone in there does not actually know what he is doing. You can say whatever you want, changing things so drastically in such a short period of time reeks of amateur work. You can dismiss what i say, and i'm not saying this to brag or anything: i do work in the gaming industry for 15 years, and i'm not saying i'd fire the guy who takes this shots, but i'd most certainly move him out of my team if i could because he can't make up his mind or he can't design an actual progression curve. Whoever has done this job, it's done poorly. He/She doesn't deserve a pat on the back.
While I actually didn't work in the gaming industry, I absolutely sign your statement!

Every game I know which is based on challenges (like LoL) that goes through regular patches does the same thing:

slow, incremental patches, see where it goes, adjust.

If I were to use an analogy here:

If TFPs were in charge of League of Legends:

A champion is overpowered:

reduce AD/ap by 20, decrease movement speed, remove one ability and block the champion until the patch is out

A champion rework has a winrate of 49%:

revert all changes! Abort mission!

People like an item:

double the cost of the item and remove the important item effect

I think as we get closer to release, we're going to see progression slow down even more. We've all been play-testers for years now, and when you have an incomplete game, there's no need to make your testers go through tons of progression....particularly when you expect them to restart their game quite often. You want people to experience all the content, find the bugs, make their suggestions; to see what folks are enjoying. You don't want people to have to play for a RL week to get a gyrocopter...or how can you get feedback?

Progression is sped up, gating is limited...so most people can experience most of the game at each update. MANY changes take place too...some I love, some I don't (I liked underground bases...because, some times I feel like a hoard, sometimes I don't). I also don't like zombies punching through concrete. I think it should be about 100x harder (seriously) to build reinforced concrete, but once you do, it's almost impervious. Certainly treated steel plated reinforced concrete should be immune to anything other than perhaps cop acid, and even then should take a long long long time to destroy. In return I'd expect to have a really really hard time encountering the same material in a POI if I wanted to break through it, and I think repairs should be a pain in the ass.

I also think zombies should damage themselves when the are punching or digging through stuff. Not like old-spike damage, just something that would eventually kill some straggler that dug down 9 blocks and you can't easily find it to kill. That said, I roll with the changes and make my case as needed.

TFP is going to make changes we like, and ones we don't. Always consider whether there's other people who might actually like the latest changes and consider whether some of the changes are due to limitations imposed by the engine. By all means, make your case for whatever ails you. It's generally better to sway people with a silver tongue than an ice-pick.

-Morloc
I know what you mean, but I disagree strongly with their sentiment!

They never planned ahead! And to say now "oh they always intended for the game to get slower" is... sorry... naive at best!

They go with what feels right to them right now. That is why they changed the U.I. and why they updated the graphics twice.

That is why they add and completely remove stuff the next alpha.

I highly doubt that they had such a crawl in mind when they released the game. They always wanted a progression yes. (itemquality and stuff) but they already removed a lot of progression again in favour of instant quality upgrades (who knows why)

I'll stop ranting now. They do not have foresight. And nearly everyone (even hardcore fans) don'T really like the slow down in all their aspects. It is an obvious attempt to mask the fact that there is still no endgame. And it feels bad.

Yes steam reviews are very positive...

but you know what else? Negative reviews have more "helpful" votes... I'm not saying most ppl hate it. I'm just saying most people don't care for gamedesign or any of that. They just see the new shining thing and upvote. If this alpha (if it were released today) lives even 1/2 as long as A16, I eat a broom!

It is new, it is shiny, for the casual player that is enough to like it.

 
And for the love of god, stop redoing everything over and over again... RWG will never be perfect, nor will AI, nor will stealth, but if it takes 1 year to deliver a WIP in all those departments, maybe it's just time to call it a day and focus on end game content.
This is what i have been wondering since A17e dropped. What plans are there for end game?

What I fear is that all this nerfing and slowing down progress is just a way to prolong the game time because we wont get any new end game mechanics.

Don't take this as a doom and gloom. But I haven't heard anything about endgame mechanics like colony, end boss or story line.

They have added items, vehicles, mods and beautiful POI's, but Is that it? Just more stuff for us to use on endless of horde nights till we die.

No rant just a honest question!

 
These devs are just so FCKIN intent on reducing the fun factor with every single build. WTF

They discover everyone hates the gating, especially the forge gate, so they remove it. However in the same build they make the Forge a b*astard to build instead by adding 5 Duct Tape to the the recipe.

Change ONE thing and measure the effect ffs. What is this? Amateur hour? Get a goddam game designer on your staff asap.

 
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By the time I could build a forge, mid afternoon day 7(really needed it to efficiently produce iron for barbed wire), I had enough nails and tape from looting to build a dozen forges. The extra requirements were a non issue.
Whereas some of us who know what we are doing were ready to build a forge on day 2 and had no nails or tape.

Sorry but your post translates as "I have a sandwich, therefore world hunger does not exist".

 
Sorry but your post translates as "I have a sandwich, therefore world hunger does not exist".
WTF?

I just reported precisely what occurred during my b233 playthrough!

And you're equating that with world hunger, that's a bit fricken dramatic.

You should chill a bit.

Whereas some of us who know what we are doing were ready to build a forge on day 2 and had no nails or tape.
Whatever, don't take your sour grapes out on me.

 
Whereas some of us who know what we are doing were ready to build a forge on day 2 and had no nails or tape.
Sorry but your post translates as "I have a sandwich, therefore world hunger does not exist".

Come'on....it's 5 nails and tape- they have a high probability in trash. Just run around and loot garbage bags for about 10 minutes or so.

Virtually everything you need for most recipes is in the garbage...It couldn't be much easier..you don't even have to go in a POI or nothing..just pick up garbage to build a forge.

<lootgroup name="junk">

<item name="resourceArrowHeadIron" count="1,12"/>

<item name="resourceArrowHeadSteelAP" count="1,10" prob="0.05"/>

<item name="resourceCandyTin"/>

<item name="drinkJarEmpty" count="1"/>

<item name="drinkCanEmpty" count="1"/>

<item name="drugPainkillers"/>

<item name="resourcePaper" count="1,6" prob="0.7"/>

<item name="oldCash" count="1,6" prob="0.3"/>

<item name="resourceCloth" count="1,4"/>

<item group="trophyGroup"/>

<item name="resourceCandleStick"/>

<item name="glassCTRSheet"/>

<item name="resourceGunPowder" count="1,3"/>

<item name="resourceDoorKnob" count="1"/>

<item name="resourceOil" count="2,6"/>

<item name="resourceMetalPipe" count="1"/>

<item name="resourceFishingWeight" count="1,3"/>

<item name="resourceScrapLead" count="1,10"/>

<item name="resourceWood" count="1,4"/>

<item name="resourceGlue" count="1"/>

<item name="resourceNail" count="1,10"/>

<item name="casinoCoin" count="1,5"/>

<item name="resourceBulletCasing" count="1,10"/>

<item name="resourceFeather" count="1,3"/>

<item name="resourceDuctTape" count="1,3"/>

<item group="rottenFood" count="1"/>

<item group="books"/>

<item group="seeds"/>

<item group="questChallenge" count="1" prob="0.11"/> <!-- 0.06 = .23 % -->

<item group="treasureMaps" count="1" prob="0.092"/>

<item name="resourceFemur" count="1,2" prob="0.05"/>

<item name="resourceScrapPolymers" count="1,2" prob="0.3"/>

</lootgroup>

 
WTF?I just reported precisely what occurred during my b233 playthrough!

And you're equating that with world hunger, that's a bit fricken dramatic.

You should chill a bit.

Whatever, don't take your sour grapes out on me.
You reported you were ready to build a forge on day 7 and had enough nails and tape. Well duh. If you were ready to build a forge as late as day 7 then you are absolutely not affected by this change. So your info doesn't really help those people who are greatly affected by it. I have a Duct tape shortage the entire game, never mind an extra 5 needed on day 2.

 
They also pushed iron tools back...
TFP:

- (A17) we're going to gate the forge so players can't reliably get iron before level 20

- (B221) actually players are getting to 20 really fast...lets slow down levelling to stall off that benchmark level

- (B231) well lets remove level gate so players can get forge early if they want

- (still B231) not THAT early! whoa! we're pushing forge back to INT 5 and making stamina tougher so they have a harder time getting forge early

- (sneaky B231) also, lets sneak in nails and duct tape to the forge recipe! hah! now they need to find a forge, to MAKE a forge (reliably). hilarious!

- (B233) ok ok fine, you can get your forge back at INT 4...but we're adding a new rank of the forge perk to restrict iron tools, and THAT'S still at INT 5...so you can get your forge earlier right? even though making effective use of it is now 1 point FURTHER away...

its so flip-floppy....level gate...double down on level gate...remove level gate...start making the soft gate harder...make the soft gate easier, but make use of it harder...

The worst thing has to be the stealth changes all over..."here's your forge, but we changed the recipe to require something EVERYONE scrapped before and can't be crafted without said forge"....then "here's your forge" *tries to craft iron item* "WHOA THERE DUDE! you can't use the forge like that anymore...yet."
Plus 1

 
The nails are ridiculous.Can't say I support this but... I guess we'll get used to it.
I'm curious as to why you feel nails are ridiculous?

Although not an expert I do frequent my fair share of antique shops and every bellows I've seen have some way of attaching the leather. Mostly nails/tacks from what I've seen. (some have been sewn with thread or leather too)

So since nails are historically accurate and in my playthroughs I scrap dozens of nails a day this requirement seems not only logical but inconsequential.

 
I'm curious as to why you feel nails are ridiculous?
Although not an expert I do frequent my fair share of antique shops and every bellows I've seen have some way of attaching the leather. Mostly nails/tacks from what I've seen. (some have been sewn with thread or leather too)

So since nails are historically accurate and in my playthroughs I scrap dozens of nails a day this requirement seems not only logical but inconsequential.
I agree, it was an initial shock when I first saw the recipe in game and thought.... well crap, I wish wouldn't have scrapped 30-50 nails already lol. It seems to me, so far, that the bellows recipe change is easy to adapt to. Was it a needed change, probably not. Could they have focused development on something that matters more, most certainly. Does it feel like change for the sake of change, pretty much. But still hasn't stopped my bellows production since the 1st bellows attempt lol.

 
It's 6. 4 points to get INT to 4 (1, 1, 2). 1 point for Hammer and Forge. 1 Point for Master Chef.
But yes, I do agree that there are a lot of things falling through the cracks.

It's also worth pointing out that the grill is only used for 3 recipes now. Grilled meat, Fish Tacos, and Steak & Potatoes.
You are forgetting the one point you require in cooking to even be able to make grilled meat. So it is actually seven points.

 
Negative reviews have more "helpful" votes...
Heh....people with a hair across their ass are always far more motivated than those who are happy or content. Ever see a bunch of workers who are happy with their employers hold a "Thank you for my job!" march? That's just human nature. ;)

-Morloc

 
Kinda makes sense to need nails, I mean, you gotta hold everything together.

Of all the games I've ever played, changes to 7DTD have caused me the least amount of concern. Mostly because, if I really don't like something, I just modify the game a little.

- P

 
Heh....people with a hair across their ass are always far more motivated than those who are happy or content. Ever see a bunch of workers who are happy with their employers hold a "Thank you for my job!" march? That's just human nature. ;)

-Morloc
Hahahahaha!!!

Not only very true but Hysterical!!

lqK6827.gif


 
In general, I'm in favor of the slow character build and really in favor of trying new strategies on new toons every time i die (which is much more frequent now - and i love it).

But...

Is the anvil itself considered an iron tool?

My SP random world and RNGesus saw fit to give me a starting trader with a working forge, working cement mixer, and a working chem station, so i decided to give a construction oriented toon a playthrough.

I got my new forge perk and dutifully fed 1800 smelted iron into it but keep getting the message that i dont have the required recipe. Oh well, i got 180 refined iron bars out that i wasn't counting on.

Oddly enough i was ready to wait for the skill points to make the tools, but i really wanted to make some arrowheads.

My best guess is that it is unlocked with the tools perk. In my opinion it should be unlocked with the forge perk. I'm 100% behind the increased mat cost - i mean have you ever seen one in real life? They are serious hunks of metal and it took some real muscle to gather that much raw iron with a lvl2 stone axe.

 
Kinda makes sense to need nails, I mean, you gotta hold everything together.
Of all the games I've ever played, changes to 7DTD have caused me the least amount of concern. Mostly because, if I really don't like something, I just modify the game a little.

- P
Sense, yes... but by that logic one has to ask what is holding the wood frames/ladders/etc. together...

 
Sense, yes... but by that logic one has to ask what is holding the wood frames/ladders/etc. together...
~~~magic!~~~

In some mods you need nails for frames. Not everything has to overly complicated. Frames are something that you craft hundreds of throughout the game. Bellows? I make like 20 max.

 
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