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- Thread starter Shod
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What does this even mean?
Maybe you already know this, but the crafting magazines you find are influenced by where you spend your points. Want to craft and fight with clubs? Put points into Pummel Pete. Want to craft vehicles faster? Spec into Grease Monkey. Yes you get a smattering of other mags, but your chance of finding the series (as well as related parts) to the areas you are spec'd into is increased.
I mean, it's still in development. So yes, it is a stage in the development.
pApA^LeGBa
Well-known member
It means that replayability took a big hit in the face. Any other playstyle other than constantly going looting got eliminated with A21.
Scyris
New member
Is it any diff than A20? in A20 you basically generally went the same stat build as it was most efficent, thing is the efficent part just changed from stat build to looting. Str is still IMO the best starting stat just because it has miner 69'er and motherload in it, doesn't hurt it has 2 solid weapons in clubs and shotguns either.
pApA^LeGBa
Well-known member
@Scyris This isn´t about how i locate my skillpoints, this is about crafting only beeing possible and viable if you go looting constantly. You can´t just do a wilderness playtrough and only go looting if you need something non craftable. You can´t do a mix of living in the wilderness, building your castle or whatever and going looting splitting it up 50/50. You will fall behind your gamestage very soon with your crafting skills, you will not have enough water.
It´s basically loot or die now.
It´s basically loot or die now.
Scyris
New member
Thats true, but thats TFPs M.O. since a17 play our way or leave. Each alpha after 16.4 basically has been removing more and more of the sandbox elements a21 is just continuing this and continuing to force the player to play a certain way. I see what you mean now, but yeah like I said thats kinda TFP's Modus operandi since a17, forcing the players to all play the same way since they work to make other ways non-viable. Guess I never noticed the issue as much as I usually am always out looting and doing quests anyway. But I could see people who like to just mine or build in a MP community kinda getting shafted in a21. I mean it can still be done you just need to basically leech off the looters for magazines/survival things, which IMO doesn't feel very good.
pApA^LeGBa
Well-known member
@Scyris It works to a certain degree in MP. The tool magazines for mining tools ain´t a problem. The steel tool parts however are a huge problem. Having someone at home who does all the mining/crafting/building/cooking/farming is not happening in A21 without getting slowed down a lot.
There will be a bunch of people who can now deceide to play like TFP wants wich would mean doing stuff they don´t like or get another game. Surely not the majority of players but still.
I still don´t understand that obsession with making everyone play the same way.
There will be a bunch of people who can now deceide to play like TFP wants wich would mean doing stuff they don´t like or get another game. Surely not the majority of players but still.
I still don´t understand that obsession with making everyone play the same way.
Scyris
New member
I don't either, but that seems to be what TFP is going for. I miss how sandbox like the game was in a16.4 and below. Since a17 its just gotten more and more forced/onrails, with A21 being the worse iteration of this as now as you said its basically loot or die. I bet it'll get worse in a22 as well. As for the steel tool parts there is a way around this, just have your looters do quests and take steel tools as a reward, its not that hard to get t3-4 steel tools from t3 quests, if your a miner all you really need is a steel pickaxe. and a Iron Shovel (with perks+grave digger mod its enough to 1 shot 200 hp dirt blocks for clay). In my single player games I generally care about a good pickaxe over the other 2 tools, as I don't bother with lockpicking other than cop cars, I just bust into everything with a pickaxe.
theFlu
Well-known member
It does seem quite the stretch, probably even wrong in the context - as in, the OP didn't exactly mean that, whether it's true for the game or not.
But, I think OP meant the feeling of being stuck on exacted progress, "on rails" if you will. As he goes on to elaborate, he's talking about looting for crafting and looting for antibiotics (for some reason). Crafting progress is now basically set in stone, by the developer. Wherever you loot, wherever you go, you can't change the fact that the next workstation book gives you .. lockpicks, yay. "But I want a crucible.." no no, the GM says you want lockpicks. So you want lockpicks. "Played by the devs" even if I'm reading a lot into a couple sentences ...
pApA^LeGBa
Well-known member
theFlu
Well-known member
But not the one we were all quoting@theFlu Well seeing OP gave a like on my second post, i think i nailed it.
But I basically wrote about the same thing, just not making the logical leap to replayability - just because the rails are quite visibly there on your First go as well 
i did..
went grease monkey right off.. up to 3, even,.. still took 14 (2 hour) days to get the motorcycle
SenLim
New member
Yes I agree.
I have 4/5 advanced engineering and I'm on day 24 without cement mixer because I couldn't find the book.
I also have 4/5 spear master and 4/5 salvage operations, so maybe the chance of finding this book is split between these 3.
I'd like to see devs playing A21 without looting. Ah no because looting style is what they want (for this Alpha version).
How would they want for A22 or A23 or A29? Maybe it'll be different.
I have 4/5 advanced engineering and I'm on day 24 without cement mixer because I couldn't find the book.
I also have 4/5 spear master and 4/5 salvage operations, so maybe the chance of finding this book is split between these 3.
I'd like to see devs playing A21 without looting. Ah no because looting style is what they want (for this Alpha version).
How would they want for A22 or A23 or A29? Maybe it'll be different.
pApA^LeGBa
Well-known member
Nope. Madmole stated several times over the years that he doesn like it that people can basically stay at home and still progress. I just never thought that they would actually go that way to actually force a certain playstyle for a minority of players. Because let´s be honest, the majority does do looting most of the time anyways. There is like 15% maybe 20% who don´t like the looting part of the game.
It´s just that it is a nice change to have a full wilderness playtrough, and a playstyle with 50% living in the wilderness and 50% going looting is nice aswell. Both not possible anymore. And that is why replayability took a big hit in the face. Before i do another looting all the time playtrough i rather play something else.
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warmer
Well-known member
I completely disagree. The old way was 100% predictable. I no longer had fun with the progression because it was linear and obvious. The new system adds a few twists and turns which make the game vastly more repayable do to the semi random nature of progression.pApA^LeGBa said:
pApA^LeGBa
Well-known member
It´s as predictable as before. You collect the magazines based on your points. You choose wich crafting skills will be leveled faster than others.
And i am talking about the playstyle. Like beeing forced to loot all the time. Not beeing able to say i wanna loot only one third of the time or only very little looting at all. That´s the real reason to replay. Not where my skillpoints go.
warmer
Well-known member
Random magazine drops influenced by skill choice is NOT predictable. Lol it's weighted RNG.
The old system had ZERO randomness to the progression aside from finding a blueprint. Almost everything was locked behind a stat. I would argue this system is much more open ended than the old system.
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theFlu
Well-known member
This one is so granular that it turns predictable... it's like predicting "how many sixes have I rolled after a 1000 dice rolls" ... about 166. Give or take twelve.
The old system, if you wanted to craft your main weapon, or the crucible, the day you'd get it would be completely dictated by the one random roll. No indications of "how close" you were, no progress towards it, you either got it from RNG or didn't. That's pretty completely at the mercy of the RNG gods .. and trust me, they are fickle, I've felt their moods often...
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pApA^LeGBa
Well-known member
It is predictable. I will finish the skills i put points in faster. That´s a fact. And if you have a skill with 3 or more points in it, it will be a lot faster.