PC Armor system - what do you prefer?

[Roland]

I'm wrong?

more like....prolific.

You inject your Mad Max disgruntlement into most of your posts even when it isn't even the topic of the thread. TFP is aware that you don't like Mad Max flavor in your zombie apocalypse. Feedback received.

 

[Kyonshi]

Well : some thing can give you "bonuses" in real live too. Like sunglasses or nightvision, if you dance (idk how it is called in english) socks without toes  can be usefull , running shoes can let you run faster ( if you are profesional runner) . Even bandoliers can you allow reload faster  - yes this simplfied in 7dtd but i will give you example - armies invest a lot to create the best "wearing" systems because this  was important-  it will be faster to take new magasine from socket on you belt that take this magasine from your backpack right?  It can be easier to take shotgun shells from bandolier that sockets right? Just it need to be logical

Let say: you want to be stealth and night - wear black clothes, and day ghile suit. You want to hunt? light shoes / totaly barefoot  and light clothes.  You want to wear a lot og things? fishing vest etc.

 But farming, "thinking" clothes sound stupid as hell - well i understand mining set- it it warm underground  so light clothes are better but rest of concept arts looks... just something is wrong. Well ofc this can be scrapped and do in diffrrent way but - drones,  junk guns, new guns  models mean they want to do something in "mad max" style

I dunno, I think you're way too much down to earth regarding concepts in this game where suspension of disbelief is used to maintain and conduct the game design that the Pimps want.

First of all, a bandolier will not make you perform the reload gestures faster. It does provide easier and quicker access to ammo, but the item doesn't make you move faster. But for 7DTD, it's nothing dramatic to play around that idea and translate it into the effect the Bandolier gives to the player. And our character in the game isn't an American soldier equipped with cutting edge technology and development regarding military/tactical gear. No need to push the idea in a design like 7DTD. Some people claim there's something wrong with the game because AKs aren't so common in the US (i really read complains like that) or that there's no 5.56mm ammo. But honestly, this isnt Call of Duty nor Battlefield. Can we just enjoy 7DTD for what it is?

If farming and other armor sets don't make sense with their "magical" perks, then do we also remove all of the existing "magic" items like the Nerdy Glasses and Lucky Googles? The Bandolier? The Pocket Mods are a problem then, because the image of that item depicted shows that you totally can't fit a Fire Axe in it. Yet, it does. And how the hell does a Pocket Mod magically removes some weight off of you?? You only have more room to carry more stuff, so logically this means you're heavier! Omg what are we gonna do??

Just let go pal, you're too rigid about this all. Same with TC. It's not a bad thing to be tolerant about fictional stuff.

 

[Matt115]

more like....prolific.

You inject your Mad Max disgruntlement into most of your posts even when it isn't even the topic of the thread. TFP is aware that you don't like Mad Max flavor in your zombie apocalypse. Feedback received.

Well i wanted to give me opinion to kyonshi and shockway1: i think they can not read my every post so i wrote what i think. This not connected with my "usual" complaining. 

I dunno, I think you're way too much down to earth regarding concepts in this game where suspension of disbelief is used to maintain and conduct the game design that the Pimps want.

First of all, a bandolier will not make you perform the reload gestures faster. It does provide easier and quicker access to ammo, but the item doesn't make you move faster. But for 7DTD, it's nothing dramatic to play around that idea and translate it into the effect the Bandolier gives to the player. And our character in the game isn't an American soldier equipped with cutting edge technology and development regarding military/tactical gear. No need to push the idea in a design like 7DTD. Some people claim there's something wrong with the game because AKs aren't so common in the US (i really read complains like that) or that there's no 5.56mm ammo. But honestly, this isnt Call of Duty nor Battlefield. Can we just enjoy 7DTD for what it is?

If farming and other armor sets don't make sense with their "magical" perks, then do we also remove all of the existing "magic" items like the Nerdy Glasses and Lucky Googles? The Bandolier? The Pocket Mods are a problem then, because the image of that item depicted shows that you totally can't fit a Fire Axe in it. Yet, it does. And how the hell does a Pocket Mod magically removes some weight off of you?? You only have more room to carry more stuff, so logically this means you're heavier! Omg what are we gonna do??

Just let go pal, you're too rigid about this all. Same with TC. It's not a bad thing to be tolerant about fictional stuff.

that's why i wrote this is simplifed - quicker access= you can reload faster. Well make just animation faster is not realitic but this is simpifited idea how bandoliers works.  Well i know that a lot of things are simplifited but can be easy explained : nerdy glasses and lucky googles- our character have defect of vision so if he/she waring glasses he can easier spot something in shop or sun is not longer problem.  about "t's not a bad thing to be tolerant about fictional stuff." It is only halve true : i will give you star wars as example- in legends (old canon) people spend a lot of time on how to make this "realiable" - complexed info how blasters works , how much their weight , how much they cost, who make them , tons of designed with pro and coins, diffrent types of armors connected with them , logistic etc.  So in one hand you have guys who can jump 10 meters, few guys who are ghost but in other hand you have tons of quiet realistic details - armies need supplices, companies sue each other, some people create bootlegs products etc. You know what i mean. A lot of things will be not longer problem if it will be explained - as example: In future update you can find lore notes and you can find about  AK 47 .This guns was introduce by USA army as standard rifle and is called AUTOMATIC KARABINE ( because it was protype made by germans during ww2). 

This solution allow to solve this problem because :

1. people woudn't complain because this is alternative universe.

2. This mean it was " artistic choice" not a mistake.

Well setting  can  be fiction but "things" that make stuff more realistic are soo good- i will give you few example in games:

1. morrowind - argonians and khajit can't wear shoes and  closed helmets because are designed for human like feet and heads. You can fix stuff using armor and in past a lot of soldiers were wearing reparing tools with them.

2. in ac2 you can find information about money: in ezio period were used a lot of types of coins but someone simplifed this to make this easier for desmond.

3. in plague tale main character explain to her brother that sword are very expensive so not everyone can own them.

4. in horizon zero dawn young aloy go barefoot because kids grown fast so this would be waste of time and skin to make shoes for her. In the past it was normal that kids go barefoot because shoes were too expensive.

5.  In stalker snorks wear old type of gasmask not modern ones because snorks were firsts stalkers in zone.

6. In dying light it is explain that exploding zombie... exploding because they are  putrafacation gases are in their bodies etc.

So that type of thing can do a lot of setting in games. In 7dtd you can find in some places poster of missing people. Pit with burned corpses have sometime burned zombie. Some traders camps have basments ,  hostel rooms looks like after fight. So honestly- POI and new RWG is really good and i don't have nothing to complain-  bulding looks realistic with tons of details, roads have sense and you can find road blocade , parking places have sense and  there is lot of bins,  road bars etc so it looks rly realistic and cool.

Btw i know that characters is not ex soldiers but some things can be done more are logical - i would never would add shovel handling as gun stocks - i would just use diffrent gun stock or make it myself using wood- i'm carpeter but i think you could find big enought piece of wood ,  saw and sandpaper to make normal gunstocks.

Ofc we can enjoy 7dtd for what it is but this don't mean things cannot be changed right  or maybe it can be done in diffrent way in sequel/spin off. 

Well ofc game can have realistic but be bad  - b4b have one of the best guns models with guns mods, rly good looking houses and... it is just boring and have one of the worst zombies in games

 

[Shockwave1]

Nitpicky? Ok

Nah but pal, you said that armor sets are "magical" items that are out of place, but you don't mention those two pairs of glasses, which also give "unreal" bonuses, because no one gets smarter and crafts faster putting on some glasses. Doesn't matter if the bonus value is way lesser than the sets, that's not my point. Just like a Bandolier doesn't make you reload faster in any way.

Should we remove all "fantasy" items then, if we follow your rationale? Because they don't make sense in a survival game like this?

The armor sets are still an idea on paper and not even implemented yet. We don't even know if the general gameplay design will be tweaked to offer much more challenge overall. The armor sets could very well ease the experience with either some pieces or complete assortment, so consequently the Pimps will have to crank up the difficulty of the game.

To say that they should not go along with the sets concept is way too premature and purely speculative. We need way much more data on how they will design the suits versus the impact they will have over the whole progression and how the game world will make them viable, or not, in the form that we're being showed.

Sure you can give you 2 cents on this, but like BFT2020 said, any decisive point of view on that is inconsequential for now.

I don't believe you I suspect that you didnt have any issue with this and when you saw where I wanted to go with my comment, you reconsidered to not appear contradictory (I don't mean no offense, Im just showing some horns to tease you )

First glasses can let you craft faster and better. Of course they can, especially if they are magnifying glasses. Bandoliers absolutely make you reload faster over getting ammo out of your backbpack... that's precisely what they are designed to do.

At the very least at least we have one piece of eyewear for each stat, which we should still get rid of (as it is unbalancing if you find it/don't find it). No eyewear should boost stats or XP but crafting times would be a fine bonus.

There is no need to put out armor that gives you a huge bonus they crank up the difficulty. That just makes the game easy or difficulty based solely on RNG. If you find the armor the game is easy if you don't it's hard.  Ergo, there is no reason for the armors, they serve no purpose, they solve no deficiency in the game.

As for "not believing me" you can be whatever kind of ass you want, it doesn't add anything to the discussion.

 

[Weazelsun]

I'm fine with them being re-designed. I just wonder why can't part of the idea be instead modifications for those items? So rather than it being like this armor set is the lucky set, instead have items mods that you can put on the armor/ clothing that does the same thing.

 

[Kyonshi]

First glasses can let you craft faster and better. Of course they can, especially if they are magnifying glasses. Bandoliers absolutely make you reload faster over getting ammo out of your backbpack... that's precisely what they are designed to do.

At the very least at least we have one piece of eyewear for each stat, which we should still get rid of (as it is unbalancing if you find it/don't find it). No eyewear should boost stats or XP but crafting times would be a fine bonus.

There is no need to put out armor that gives you a huge bonus they crank up the difficulty. That just makes the game easy or difficulty based solely on RNG. If you find the armor the game is easy if you don't it's hard.  Ergo, there is no reason for the armors, they serve no purpose, they solve no deficiency in the game.

As for "not believing me" you can be whatever kind of ass you want, it doesn't add anything to the discussion.

I already explained about the Bandolier in a comment above, that you didn't read of course. You can reach ammo quicker but the manual movement that performs the reloading process, like we plainly see in the game, will NOT be faster because you have a Bandolier... What's so hard to grasp here?

A pair of gasses wouldn't make you craft faster either in real life. Again, it's the repetition and practice of manual gesture that makes you perform the task faster, over time.

But it's items within a video game where suspension of disbelief is broadly used for the purpose of serving the game design and also, fun. Your narrowed vision of the game and what can be done because of "magical" items is very rigid and you reduce the difficulty of ordeals mostly on the items you can find, like armor sets... There's waaaay more other elements that makes the game easier or harder but the things about special items is that, wait for it... they do alleviate the issues one can encounter in a game! It's their purpose! And it's part of the challenge : the player comes across problems and they have to solve it by themselves through multiple means, which involves efforts form themselves and also, finding specific resources and items that will help them circumvent and solve said issues. When they find a "magical" armor, it's a relief and it's gratifying. But it's nothing OP like you whine about, because then there would be no more challenge. And the Pimps wanna avoid that.

You're crying about something that's not implemented yet, and you know nothing about their final design and how the game design will be worked on to make those items impact properly. The only problem here is your skewed view about something that doesn't exist yet, but you create issues like they're definitive. How about chilling out and wait once it goes live?

If finding armors sets makes us OP and the game super easy, then we'll all uninstall and give you full credit. Happy with this?

If I'm some kind of "ass" because I point out a flaw in your ranting, then I can tell you I prefer this as opposed to having my head up in it like you

 

[theFlu]

What's so hard to grasp here?

The animation is a non-sequitur.. makes it hard to grasp.

- I dislike magic armor.

- There's some examples of realistic armor items, like the bandolier, it increases your reload speed in reality as well as in game.

- But the animation is wrong.

The bandolier is a lot less magical piece than the crafting speed goggles, but you're dodging that with the +5 to dodge glasses.

 

[Roland]

I'm fine with them being re-designed. I just wonder why can't part of the idea be instead modifications for those items? So rather than it being like this armor set is the lucky set, instead have items mods that you can put on the armor/ clothing that does the same thing.

Part of the reason for the redesign is to create outfits that are pre-layered artistically so that they look good being worn. Currently the separate articles of clothing and armor all layer over each other and causes problems with clipping and just look puffy. They want the outfits to look layered and outfitted with accessories so that they look epic and cool and they can also be form fitting without having actual layers. No clipping no puffiness.

So a big part of this is visual rather than gameplay. 10 slots of separate layers overlapping each other is fun but looks bad. 4 slots of pre-rendered layered outfits is (possibly) less fun but looks much better. 

 

[Ramethzer0]

I would have to see the redesigned system before I voted.

This!

Though, I really would like it if we had both.  Give players the choice to use any option, meanwhile the bandits come with their cool redesigned stuff.

 

[OneManStanding]

Also going to refrain from voting because I don't know enough. You can view the current system as either very flexible, giving you more combinations for customization, or maybe a little complicated with all the separate parts and modifications. I'm not much for character customisation but I will say that once I did get a character who looked pretty cool, I had to change his clothes for better environmental protection.

What I've heard about the incoming system is that it'll be a combined armour/clothes system with only six parts compared to the current ten or so, with added perks based towards a skill. You can wear the farming armour and be a better farmer if you have the whole set, and likewise you can be a better fighter or a better medic with the appropriate clothing.

Change can take getting used to

 

[Spatch]

Who really plays this game, has a blast doing it, but then says "this sucks, my chest armor clipped over my coat!"?  Not me!  Who gives a crap about clipping?  I'd much rather have gameplay improvements than "fixing" something that I personally don't think needs to be fixed.

I like the variety the current armor slots provide.  Regardless of any bonuses that the new "sets" may give, I just don't want to go from 10 slots to 5 slots.