Are you replacing the Plague Spitters with Native Americans?

[JoeSloeMoe]

I read or heard somewhere that you might replace the spitters with a Native American entity. If this is true, then before you do, I would strongly recommend you think about how this will be done.
- The game is set in modern times not in the 1800's
- Native Americans/First Nations people are regular people, they are doctors, lawyers, mechanics - they wear regular clothing the same as everyone else in North America.
- Every 'human derived' zombie in the game is white and are represented as doctors, mechanics etc.
- Putting a Native American in traditional clothing in the game for the sole purpose of fixing an ill thought out spitter skin is perpetuating a racial and prejudicial trope.

I only say the above because you clearly have no qualms about objectifying and sexualising women in the game so I would like to say this now before you implement the skin. If you are not going to use a Native American skin then please ignore this as waffle.
cheers

 

[Samcharles]

Yes, they are and the coming bandits are Native American as well. The Duke has always been planned as a Native American.
One of the paintings in the game shows what he looks like.

Objectifying and sexualizing women? You mean the party girl?
Party girl zombie used to be a stripper and at one time and even showed some nudity. They toned it down to the current party girl model.

 

[Jeraal]

There are also stereotyped fat cops, that are white. There are multiple obese zombies, that are white. One specific zombie type gets reskinned as a Native American and it's "Oh my God! Look at all the racism!"

 

[Kyoji]

I read or heard somewhere that you might replace the spitters with a Native American entity. If this is true, then before you do, I would strongly recommend you think about how this will be done.
- The game is set in modern times not in the 1800's
- Native Americans/First Nations people are regular people, they are doctors, lawyers, mechanics - they wear regular clothing the same as everyone else in North America.
- Every 'human derived' zombie in the game is white and are represented as doctors, mechanics etc.
- Putting a Native American in traditional clothing in the game for the sole purpose of fixing an ill thought out spitter skin is perpetuating a racial and prejudicial trope.

I only say the above because you clearly have no qualms about objectifying and sexualising women in the game so I would like to say this now before you implement the skin. If you are not going to use a Native American skin then please ignore this as waffle.
cheers

Disagree. There is nothing objectifying women just because they look good as there is nothing wrong with having Conan in Age of Conan being a strong masculine male. Likewise there are plenty of tribes that still adhere to tradition. Regardless who thinks less of women or native Americans just because they are in the game as attractive or with native American attire?

I think only people who derive self worth from trying to force thief ideals on others are offended by any of this.

 

[LittleNightma]

It sounds like you haven't seen the design yet. I think it looks really cool.



I don't understand your use of the term human-derived as if Plague Spitters weren't once human like all the other zombies.

The Plague Spitters weren't ill thought out either. The issue was that people felt like their design didn't fit the game, same for the Frost Claw, so TFP decided to change them, but that doesn't mean the original concept was bad. It was just out of place.

The game is set in Arizona and the state has a large Native American population so it's not like they pulled the idea out of their butt (or maybe they did. I don't kink shame).

TFP have always been known to be a little funny and crude. Been that way since day one and I can tell you it's not going to change. The game will always have ding dong jokes, sexual innuendos, and yes, jiggle physics!

 

[JoeSloeMoe]

Yes, they are and the coming bandits are Native American as well. The Duke has always been planned as a Native American.

I didn't know that, appreciate the info. You mean the picture of the Chief? It will be interesting how they fit it all together then.

Objectifying and sexualizing women? You mean the party girl?

I meant their general approach, originally her ■■■■ were all over the place, there is no way they didnt know that when they released the skin. Another example would be Jen who has progressively become more sexual as the game has developed. Its something I would expect from a randy teenager (I'm sure Kyoji would agree )
cheers

 

[JoeSloeMoe]

I don't understand your use of the term human-derived as if Plague Spitters weren't once human like all the other zombies.

Well there are also zombie dogs and bears, so when I referred to zombies I clarified else some smart ■■■■ would chime in that not all zombies were human at some point.

The Plague Spitters weren't ill thought out either. The issue was that people felt like their design didn't fit the game, same for the Frost Claw, so TFP decided to change them, but that doesn't mean the original concept was bad. It was just out of place.

They were ill thought out in that their design didn't fit the game, seems that many people agreed and so did the FP.

The game is set in Arizona and the state has a large Native American population so it's not like they pulled the idea out of their butt (or maybe they did. I don't kink shame).

I have lived in Arizona and Nevada and am aware of the Native American population all around the four corners. I'm pretty sure they just take ideas from other games and modders not from their butt but thats just my opinion.

thats a nice pic you posted - thanks.
cheers

 

[theFlu]

Every 'human derived' zombie in the game is white

I'd bet Edgar is actually black, and one of the skinnier guys looks asian to me. They're just rather pale. Edgar being the medium fat male, looks like the farmer-suit from MIB. Plenty others are rather ambiguous... And also, pointless point.

 

[Riamus]

-The game is set in modern times not in the 1800's
- Native Americans/First Nations people are regular people, they are doctors, lawyers, mechanics - they wear regular clothing the same as everyone else in North America.
- Every 'human derived' zombie in the game is white and are represented as doctors, mechanics etc.
- Putting a Native American in traditional clothing in the game for the sole purpose of fixing an ill thought out spitter skin is perpetuating a racial and prejudicial trope.

What does the date have to do with it? Obviously there are Native Americans today. And yes, many do dress in more traditional clothing.

Obviously all races and ethnicities work in all kinds of jobs. What is your point? So a white person can be a zombie, but a Native American can't?

The clothing options are not all job related. And not everyone is necessarily white. One certainly looks Asian. If anything, adding more racial variety is a good thing, especially if you feel everyone in the game is white. Just so long as it makes sense and isn't forced, which isn't the case here.

Let me ask. Are you Native American? If not, it really isn't your call about whether or not being in traditional clothing is "bad.". I am part Native American and I have full and half blooded Native Americans in my close family. Some dress in "modern" clothing, but others dress traditionally. In fact, my uncle was a doctor until he retired and sometimes dresses traditionally. As someone connected to Native Americans, I don't have any problem with their depiction in the game. It is a good looking model.

 

[Laz Man]

The new iteration of the plague spitter shown during the town hall was a WIP model. I believe the art team has already received some constructive feedback on it so hopefully the next version is not some caricature of any specific group of people.

 

[Riamus]

The new iteration of the plague spitter shown during the town hall was a WIP model. I believe the art team has already received some constructive feedback on it so hopefully the next version is not some caricature of any specific group of people.

I hope they don't change it from Native American. That would be unfortunate. It's getting very frustrating to keep seeing people who are not part of a given race, ethnicity, or whatever trying to "protect" that other group of people without ever asking what that group of people actually thinks.

I have to say that the more and more you guys are changing things just because the loud minority cries, the less and less interested I am with this game.

 

[JoeSloeMoe]

It's getting very frustrating to keep seeing people who are not part of a given race, ethnicity, or whatever trying to "protect" that other group of people without ever asking what that group of people actually thinks.

Its a shame that people are so fixed in their outlook that they cant interpret any comment without resorting to this type of 'you cant comment if you are not from that group'. Its a closed minded approach that is used defensively instead of understanding what is being said. Everyone is entitled to express their opinion on matters - they do not have to be an expert in that matter to comment, it is a fallacy to believe otherwise.

For you and others in this thread, I will spell it out, the fun pimps have a habit of overdoing their implementation and there is an example given in this thread of the stripper's ■■■■ - they changed it, another example is he spitter model itself. So lets have an adult conversation about encouraging them to get it right this time, the first time.
No-one is offended, no-one is thinking on behalf of another group. If its frustrating for you then that is your problem and mostly down to your interpretation and projections.

 

[Kyoji]

I have to say that the more and more you guys are changing things just because the loud minority cries, the less and less interested I am with this game.

To be fair here you keep saying minority but everything points to the exact opposite.

Outside of jars that was recently mentioned, what was changed that you disliked so much? All of the changes were ones already anticipated (temperature - that you kept telling everyone was coming) and fixes to poor gameplay with 2.0 which is a natural development cycle for any previous alpha - making adjustments.

Post automatically merged: Thursday at 9:49 PM

Its a shame that people are so fixed in their outlook that they cant interpret any comment without resorting to this type of 'you cant comment if you are not from that group'. Its a closed minded approach that is used defensively instead of understanding what is being said. Everyone is entitled to express their opinion on matters - they do not have to be an expert in that matter to comment, it is a fallacy to believe otherwise.

For you and others in this thread, I will spell it out, the fun pimps have a habit of overdoing their implementation and there is an example given in this thread of the stripper's ■■■■ - they changed it, another example is he spitter model itself. So lets have an adult conversation about encouraging them to get it right this time, the first time.
No-one is offended, no-one is thinking on behalf of another group. If its frustrating for you then that is your problem and mostly down to your interpretation and projections.

I have been around long enough to know where this starts. They tried this back in the day with Doom and Duke Nukem and more recently with the likes of Bayonetta and Grand Theft Auto. Didn't like people trying to change it then nor do I now. Speak for yourself with these changes.

 

[BFT2020]

Context is always key. Native American's in native clothing is not racist in itself, it depends on how the media portrays them.

Does the plague splitter concept portray racist stereotypes? Does it mischaracterize Native Americans into a bias, racist belief on who they are?

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." ~ Groucho Marx

It's a mine field out there.

I gather the Duke+casino reference is intended to be a play on the casino solution to a degree of economic sovereignity among First Nations. Otoh, the Duke is obviously running a protection racket and, if bandits are going to be primarily Native American as Rick said, I can see that possibly becoming a problem for TFP because they'll essentially be portrayed as "the bad guys." It smacks of Cowboys and Indians to be honest. Sticky. Probably wouldn't hurt to reach out to the Apache to ascertain how they feel about it.

I don't see a problem with the Native American model for Plague Spitter. Why would Native Americans be immune to the virus? Also, I take human beings as individuals, good and bad. But I wouldn't pretend to know how Native Americans might feel about it. Some might be happy just to see mention of their culture in media; others, maybe not so much. As BFT2020 said, it will all depend on how they're portrayed and how they're portrayed in this game is obviously not going to be Dances With Wolves style.

 

[khzmusik]

I read or heard somewhere that you might replace the spitters with a Native American entity. If this is true, then before you do, I would strongly recommend you think about how this will be done.
- The game is set in modern times not in the 1800's
- Native Americans/First Nations people are regular people, they are doctors, lawyers, mechanics - they wear regular clothing the same as everyone else in North America.
- Every 'human derived' zombie in the game is white and are represented as doctors, mechanics etc.
- Putting a Native American in traditional clothing in the game for the sole purpose of fixing an ill thought out spitter skin is perpetuating a racial and prejudicial trope.

I only say the above because you clearly have no qualms about objectifying and sexualising women in the game so I would like to say this now before you implement the skin. If you are not going to use a Native American skin then please ignore this as waffle.
cheers

If this upsets you, then you probably aren't going to like the game's upcoming story. I don't either. I wrote about it a while ago, here:

PC Thread 'The Duke, Noah, and the story so far'

Mar 19, 2025

Here is what I can glean about the 7D2D story so far.

Most of this is taken from entries in the translation files. I also took some information from the official Wiki, and sometimes from the game's XML configuration files, or from things the developers have said in the past. However, most of this is not currently in the game.

So until we hear otherwise from the developers, all of this could change.

For real-life information, I'll provide Wikipedia links if I can find them.

The story takes place in Navezgane, Arizona. 

This is how Navezgane is described in...

• khzmusik
• Replies: 140
• Forum: General Discussion

• 

That thread is now locked because it got toxic, so please let's not do that again here.

Having said that, I don't think you're being fair.

First, not all the "human derived" zombies are supposed to be White people (Boe is supposed to be black, and Steve is supposed to be Asian). I also find it odd that there aren't any obviously Native American zombies, but saying they're all supposed to be White is not correct.

Second, the new version of the Plague Spitter, while Native American, doesn't look like he's from the 1800's. He is wearing blue jeans and a jeans vest, and his headband is a plain piece of cloth or bandana and not a headress. The main Native American bit of clothing is a traditional necklace, which many modern Native Americans still wear. He should probably put a shirt on, but he does live in the desert.

From what I've seen, you're absolutely right that the Native Americans who live on tribal lands dress like most other people who live in rural areas (Metallica T-shirts and jeans, cowboy hats and boots, etc.) and this model isn't like that, but I don't think it's significantly out of place or prejudicial.

And, finally, attitudes towards Native Americans (or racial attitudes in general) have literally zero to do with objectifying women. But, from what I've heard, Jen's model was based on one of the developer's wives. (I could be wrong, it was floating around the forums when the new model was introduced.) It's irrelevant, drop it.

 

[Deo]

The new iteration of the plague spitter shown during the town hall was a WIP model. I believe the art team has already received some constructive feedback on it so hopefully the next version is not some caricature of any specific group of people.

Ignore these people and just make good game.

 

[KirillWright]

The new iteration of the plague spitter shown during the town hall was a WIP model. I believe the art team has already received some constructive feedback on it so hopefully the next version is not some caricature of any specific group of people.

I don't think you should listen to such [people]. They themselves spread racism so that everyone looks the same!

 

[Dark Sun]

It sounds like you haven't seen the design yet. I think it looks really cool.

View attachment 35965

I don't understand your use of the term human-derived as if Plague Spitters weren't once human like all the other zombies.

The Plague Spitters weren't ill thought out either. The issue was that people felt like their design didn't fit the game, same for the Frost Claw, so TFP decided to change them, but that doesn't mean the original concept was bad. It was just out of place.

The game is set in Arizona and the state has a large Native American population so it's not like they pulled the idea out of their butt (or maybe they did. I don't kink shame).

TFP have always been known to be a little funny and crude. Been that way since day one and I can tell you it's not going to change. The game will always have ding dong jokes, sexual innuendos, and yes, jiggle physics!

Fully agreed with everything you've said. For OP's sake, I hope they are indigenous/First Nations/etc., because if they're not... oh boy...

I think the new design is awesome, like you said. Having this spew out insects will be far more intimidating than the AI-generated (concept art wise) mummy we currently have in the game.

Hopefully TFP make their spawns far less numerous though.

 

[Elwynne]

I meant their general approach, originally her ■■■■ were all over the place, there is no way they didnt know that when they released the skin. Another example would be Jen who has progressively become more sexual as the game has developed. Its something I would expect from a randy teenager (I'm sure Kyoji would agree )
cheers

The nurse was far more questionable before it was changed. But hey the game has matured over time.

- Every 'human derived' zombie in the game is white and are represented as doctors, mechanics etc.

LittleRedSonja Fancy Zombie Variants​

is a great mod to introduce variety. I recommend it.