PC Anyone else hate vultures?

[Raestloz]

Everyone has fun in a different way and what is “annoying”  is impossible to develop to because it is a moving target. 

This is a very dismissive view of the matter. For the specific example of vultures, there's actually a perfect analogy: Cliff Racers. Pretty much everyone agreed that something so easy to kill but incessantly harass you is annoying. So much so that Bethesda never tried anything like that again since 2008

Arguments like "mod it out" are so hollow, I can't believe people actually use it. The game is in Alpha, features still change. THIS is the time to ask for changes in gameplay mechanics. Once the game goes gold, then mechanics are pretty much set in stone. THAT is the time to ask people how to mod it out for personal pleasure

If people don't complain, then we'd still have many bears and wolves trotting about in broad daylight

 

[Solomon]

I hate these damm birds, their hitbox is just BS.

I was on a shotgun messiah factory exploring the roofs, the basic zeds are numerous but can be dealt with but then i see 2 of these flying cancers spawned. One is already flying towards me so i hipfire my ak at it 4 times, all shots miss...i can headshot berserkers further away and i cant hit this thing the size of a cat!

No problem i aim down the sights and shot once more directly into it, the crosshair is on the its head no way to miss and yet i fire and it misses. I picked up my shotgun fired and it died, the other flew pretty close so i fire my shotgun at it and.....hell it misses again.

I took a hit, reloaded and shot it down this time but this is just pure nonsense. Single player game on my own map, no lag, no issues with anything and yet these things act like they are ghost type enemies.

 

[CrainBramp]

Am currently doing a 100% wasteland city map in A19 on my stream, and had 3 vultures, including an irradiated attack my base on the 1st night. I hadn't got a ceiling hatch up yet, and the radiated dive bomb flew through the 1 block gap in the roof IN my 5x4 base with me.

Couldn't do enough damage to outpace the healing w/a stone spear, but managed to get a lucky headshot in with my blunderbuss.

One minute, I'm boiling water at the campfire; then all hell broke loose in the base.

Fun times!

 

[12pack]

i know i'm here late, but, hey.. check my name..

vultures are the devil, and the devil is gonna getcha

unless you get the devil out of your way...

i don't care what tfp does with them @%$*#! birds, every time, i will find my way into the files,

now, some may say that that will go away, where did i heard that? beats me, don't care.. was saying

something...

meh.. what is this, a @%$*#!ing walk-through?

hellen keller them flappy @%$*#!ers...

C:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\7 Days To Die\Data\Config

<EntityClasses>

<!-- Stealth -->
    <property name="SightRange" value="70"/>

find it, adjust it, enjoy...

then gfys.

 

[AlexanderPwn]

I find them to be pretty aggravating. I also don't know if the hit boxes are just weird or what but it always takes like three swings of my baseball bat at the most damage it can possibly do and that's just ridiculous. It would seem I'm connecting. Might just be lag, I feel like it should only one swipe.h

 

[wizard puke]

But I agree that it would be nice for some additional options like allowing a passenger to shoot them or an auto turret vehicle  mod that can help keep them at bay. 

Just cruisin around the wasteland on my bicycle  with no hands whistling and spamming the horn button leaving a trail of bird carcasses behind my newly attached Radio Flyer wagon with a junk sledge in it.

 

[meganoth]

I hate these damm birds, their hitbox is just BS.

I was on a shotgun messiah factory exploring the roofs, the basic zeds are numerous but can be dealt with but then i see 2 of these flying cancers spawned. One is already flying towards me so i hipfire my ak at it 4 times, all shots miss...i can headshot berserkers further away and i cant hit this thing the size of a cat!

No problem i aim down the sights and shot once more directly into it, the crosshair is on the its head no way to miss and yet i fire and it misses. I picked up my shotgun fired and it died, the other flew pretty close so i fire my shotgun at it and.....hell it misses again.

I took a hit, reloaded and shot it down this time but this is just pure nonsense. Single player game on my own map, no lag, no issues with anything and yet these things act like they are ghost type enemies.

I agree, their hitbox seems out of whack and needs adjustment. You have to take into account though that the HP of all animals was buffed in A19. You can see that with the dogs, they have the same hitpoints as any basic male zombie (150). Vultures have much less (30), but still might need more than one hit by a melee weapon.

The radiated vulture is a decisive step up, 4 times the HPs, nearly double damage with melee (14) and 4 times the block damage (32). But iradiated zombies have a similar incline in HPs and damage (AFAIK)

 

[Solomon]

I agree, their hitbox seems out of whack and needs adjustment. You have to take into account though that the HP of all animals was buffed in A19. You can see that with the dogs, they have the same hitpoints as any basic male zombie (150). Vultures have much less (30), but still might need more than one hit by a melee weapon.

The radiated vulture is a decisive step up, 4 times the HPs, nearly double damage with melee (14) and 4 times the block damage (32). But iradiated zombies have a similar incline in HPs and damage (AFAIK)

I wouldnt mind them as much if i could hit them reliably but it feels like as if im not actually trying to shoot/whack something the size of a cat/smaller dog but something the size of a fly.

 

[Roland]

This is a very dismissive view of the matter. For the specific example of vultures, there's actually a perfect analogy: Cliff Racers. Pretty much everyone agreed that something so easy to kill but incessantly harass you is annoying. So much so that Bethesda never tried anything like that again since 2008

Arguments like "mod it out" are so hollow, I can't believe people actually use it. The game is in Alpha, features still change. THIS is the time to ask for changes in gameplay mechanics. Once the game goes gold, then mechanics are pretty much set in stone. THAT is the time to ask people how to mod it out for personal pleasure

If people don't complain, then we'd still have many bears and wolves trotting about in broad daylight

You do realize that “modding it” and “complaining about it” are not mutually exclusive?  You can do both. 
 

I’m sorry that you feel that my pointing out that people are not all the same as you feels dismissive but it is the truth and I’m not going to take it back just because it hurts your feelings. I’ll state once again that your opinion has not actually been dismissed. Nobody deleted it or edited it to make it unreadable. Potentially thousands of readers can eventually find their way here to read your opinion and either agree or disagree. So stop it with the martyr complex and instead write a compelling counter argument to my argument that TFP should focus on threat assessment rather than “annoyance factor”. 
 

The vultures also do NOT incessantly attack you like the cliff racers did. They leave you completely alone when you are on foot and within ten points of full health in any biome. You can pretty much drive a vehicle unharassed in forest and snow biomes. It is only in the burnt forest, desert, and wasteland biomes that you will be attacked often and even then we just had some actual testing done and reported in this thread by Mega and it appears that even the damage they do was greatly exaggerated by people on your anti-vulture side. 

 

[FileMachete]

Dracula is the one who said vultures do 20% damage to vehicles per hit, and he also said he doesn't use vehicles on horde night. So that five-shot theory was based on Dracula's claim that a single vulture hit during daytime while driving to a quest did 20% damage to his vehicle. 

Meganoth's test results indicate that they actually do about 1% per hit.

I found another @Vedui video where he tested what happens with all vehicles & vultures on horde night (at no point did a vehicle go boom);

https://youtu.be/ShILqoo6Tj4

It's a couple weeks old so may not reflect current values, no idea.

Watching the Health percentage for the vehicles during vulture attacks I never saw it decrease by more than maybe 2 points at one time. Indicting, to me at least, that a single hit was never doing more than 1% damage at most (appeared to be 5-8 vultures attacking at once).

No question the 4x4 took by far the most damage of any vehicle, but even with Vedui driving while getting attacked for more than 1 minute & ~15 seconds, and later half getting beaten on by ~7 vultures, 3 non-rad and 1 radiated two legged zeds and 1 dog. 4x4 was down to 58% health when player died.

Vid was quite a bit different that what I expected from reading other posts in this thread. Not calling anyone out, but if anyone is seeing vulture hits taking more than say ~2% at a time, I'm guessing that would be bug-report worthy.

That said, it looks a bit overdone based on the video. Could be that since Vedui was driving the vehicles when horde night began that the initial onslaught was magnified. That if you were fighting the horde in a base, then had to bail out and did so by vehicle that there would be a transition/grace period before you had 5+ vultures on you. No idea, though I would hope that the design includes the ability for players to use a vehicle to fall back a couple few hundred meters to another location. Not saying they should be able to do that without danger/damage, but if you bailed out with low health it doesn't look like you'd make it very far at all.

To be clear, I'm not particularly fussed that this idea is now in game, it's been MM's windmill to tilt against for a long time so we knew it was coming at some point. Any concern I have is about 'fair play'. Roland earlier pointed out that my comment about vulture damage vs. 3000 pound 4x4 or vs. fleshy person was consistent within 7dtd; zeds breaking through reinforced concrete. Which was a fair point. Veduis vid showed that vulture damage doesn't suddenly jump a thousand percent just on horde nights, so that's fair imo. The only bit I see that might be somewhat unfair is if using a vehicle to fall back say 150-300? meters turns out to be mostly undoable. And if that turns out ot be TFPs designed intent, then so be it.

 

[hiemfire]

@meganoth Do you know if vehicles are immune to the critical effects that can be applied by the vultures' attacks?

 

[Boidster]

Day 1 10AM - infected, broken leg, fatigued

Day 1-3 - run around finding honey and finally some antibiotics to get infection under control

So, all healed up on Day 4 doing a T1 fetch. Satchel is in the first closet on 1st floor, but of course I want the Big Loot on the roof - who knows, maybe there's a Q4 stone axe up there!

So I fight through a couple of zombies on the upper floor and make my way to the ladder to the roof. As soon as I step foot off the ladder I am attacked by a vulture and the stupid ADS-lock and no auto-reload on the crossbow (not a fan, TFP!) have me scrambling to whip out the club. The result of the fight:

Vulture:

Boidster: 20% health, infected, broken leg, sprained arm, abrasion, fatigued

I'm totally fine with this, with one exception: the first step off a ladder should be 0% detection chance, since we can't actually sneak when on a ladder. Hopping off the ladder should not wake the bird. Two exceptions: crossbow should drop out of ADS after firing, if it is not going to auto reload. And it should now allow you to go into ADS if it does not have a bolt ready. Trying to ADS should cause a reload action, just like trying to shoot does. $.02

 

[Dracula]

I had my damage turned up and zombies on "always run" and, it seems, that is the source of my excessive damage; I detached the camera and found I was getting chain hits.

I'd get stopped, 5 would hit me, but I'd only see one because they'd overlap.

It also explains why my problems were compounded on vehicles.

I'm not without fault in complaining; and it seems it's more of a bug; also explains why I was frequently getting infected.  5 hits means a greater chance.

 

[Demandred1957]

they bug to me mostly when i get infected but i like them.

I love there idea! and they are not that hard to kill! while riding in a bike and they attack you does suck! they only attack you if you are hurt! IE, if you have 100 hp and you lost 1. they will attack!

that or just Play Baseball with a Flying bird!

Unless they have been fixed in the latest patch that is not correct. I have had 100% health for me and the vehicle, and they still attacked. as of A18.4

 

[katarynna]

Unless they have been fixed in the latest patch that is not correct. I have had 100% health for me and the vehicle, and they still attacked. as of A18.4

I believe they will attack vehicles regardless of health. On foot, they will only attack if you have lost 10% of health.

I could be wrong, but that is what i remember reading at some point and it seems to be what i experience as well.

 

[Demandred1957]

Day 1 10AM - infected, broken leg, fatigued

Day 1-3 - run around finding honey and finally some antibiotics to get infection under control

So, all healed up on Day 4 doing a T1 fetch. Satchel is in the first closet on 1st floor, but of course I want the Big Loot on the roof - who knows, maybe there's a Q4 stone axe up there!

So I fight through a couple of zombies on the upper floor and make my way to the ladder to the roof. As soon as I step foot off the ladder I am attacked by a vulture and the stupid ADS-lock and no auto-reload on the crossbow (not a fan, TFP!) have me scrambling to whip out the club. The result of the fight:

Vulture:

Boidster: 20% health, infected, broken leg, sprained arm, abrasion, fatigued

I'm totally fine with this, with one exception: the first step off a ladder should be 0% detection chance, since we can't actually sneak when on a ladder. Hopping off the ladder should not wake the bird. Two exceptions: crossbow should drop out of ADS after firing, if it is not going to auto reload. And it should now allow you to go into ADS if it does not have a bolt ready. Trying to ADS should cause a reload action, just like trying to shoot does. $.02

 There is no way a vulture should be able to break your leg.. I mean really..they swinging a sledgehammer in their claws or what? that bit of damage needs to be cut.

I believe they will attack vehicles regardless of health. On foot, they will only attack if you have lost 10% of health.

I could be wrong, but that is what i remember reading at some point and it seems to be what i experience as well.

Haven't been around them lately, but in the past, only been at 99% health and they still attacked me when on foot.

 

[Boidster]

There is no way a vulture should be able to break your leg.. I mean really..they swinging a sledgehammer in their claws or what? that bit of damage needs to be cut.

I don't disagree. I think TFP revamped the whole debuff system - which is great, no complaints - but just sort of copied/pasted it into zombieTemplate or the equivalent hard-coded thing behind the scenes. If/when they get time, it would be good to differentiate it a bit. Maybe vultures have a slightly higher chance for infection and laceration (sharp beak!) and sprained arm (defensive wounds from swatting at the bird?), dogs & wolves, have a higher chance to break your leg, normal humanoid zombies have an equal chance for causing any debuff, bigger/fatter zombies have higher chance for concussion, that sort of thing.

 

[Demandred1957]

I don't disagree. I think TFP revamped the whole debuff system - which is great, no complaints - but just sort of copied/pasted it into zombieTemplate or the equivalent hard-coded thing behind the scenes. If/when they get time, it would be good to differentiate it a bit. Maybe vultures have a slightly higher chance for infection and laceration (sharp beak!) and sprained arm (defensive wounds from swatting at the bird?), dogs & wolves, have a higher chance to break your leg, normal humanoid zombies have an equal chance for causing any debuff, bigger/fatter zombies have higher chance for concussion, that sort of thing.

None of the animals except maybe the mountain lion, and for sure the bear should be able to break bones. Wolves might break bones after chewing on your corpse for a while after there is no meat left, but they just don't have power enough to do that. A mountain lion swat I could understand, though unlikely. Bear? oh yeah. They should prob break bones with the first attack honestly. Your take on vulture attacks sounds legit as well, although I don't know about the sprain part. People get in fist fights all the time, never really hear about sprains from punching. Not to mention boxing/mma.

 

[meganoth]

I found another @Vedui video where he tested what happens with all vehicles & vultures on horde night (at no point did a vehicle go boom);

https://youtu.be/ShILqoo6Tj4

It's a couple weeks old so may not reflect current values, no idea.

Watching the Health percentage for the vehicles during vulture attacks I never saw it decrease by more than maybe 2 points at one time. Indicting, to me at least, that a single hit was never doing more than 1% damage at most (appeared to be 5-8 vultures attacking at once).

No question the 4x4 took by far the most damage of any vehicle, but even with Vedui driving while getting attacked for more than 1 minute & ~15 seconds, and later half getting beaten on by ~7 vultures, 3 non-rad and 1 radiated two legged zeds and 1 dog. 4x4 was down to 58% health when player died.

Vid was quite a bit different that what I expected from reading other posts in this thread. Not calling anyone out, but if anyone is seeing vulture hits taking more than say ~2% at a time, I'm guessing that would be bug-report worthy.

That said, it looks a bit overdone based on the video. Could be that since Vedui was driving the vehicles when horde night began that the initial onslaught was magnified. That if you were fighting the horde in a base, then had to bail out and did so by vehicle that there would be a transition/grace period before you had 5+ vultures on you. No idea, though I would hope that the design includes the ability for players to use a vehicle to fall back a couple few hundred meters to another location. Not saying they should be able to do that without danger/damage, but if you bailed out with low health it doesn't look like you'd make it very far at all.

To be clear, I'm not particularly fussed that this idea is now in game, it's been MM's windmill to tilt against for a long time so we knew it was coming at some point. Any concern I have is about 'fair play'. Roland earlier pointed out that my comment about vulture damage vs. 3000 pound 4x4 or vs. fleshy person was consistent within 7dtd; zeds breaking through reinforced concrete. Which was a fair point. Veduis vid showed that vulture damage doesn't suddenly jump a thousand percent just on horde nights, so that's fair imo. The only bit I see that might be somewhat unfair is if using a vehicle to fall back say 150-300? meters turns out to be mostly undoable. And if that turns out ot be TFPs designed intent, then so be it.

Veduis first video showed (and it also seems logical) that zombies are not immediately replaced by vultures on horde night when you mount a vehicle. But when zombies die in your horde base traps or get out of range and despawn they can be substituted with vultures. Not sure how far off you have to be for zombies who hit on your base walls to despawn, but that would be a relatively safe distance to drive. If they are running after you they also won't despawn.

@meganoth Do you know if vehicles are immune to the critical effects that can be applied by the vultures' attacks?

Very sure they are immune. It doesn't make sense to program a bike to have a broken leg. BUT in A20 a corresponding damage system will be added for vehicles and then vehicles will get flat tires instead of broken legs.

I don't disagree. I think TFP revamped the whole debuff system - which is great, no complaints - but just sort of copied/pasted it into zombieTemplate or the equivalent hard-coded thing behind the scenes. If/when they get time, it would be good to differentiate it a bit. Maybe vultures have a slightly higher chance for infection and laceration (sharp beak!) and sprained arm (defensive wounds from swatting at the bird?), dogs & wolves, have a higher chance to break your leg, normal humanoid zombies have an equal chance for causing any debuff, bigger/fatter zombies have higher chance for concussion, that sort of thing.

I agree. I think the critical hit system does not take into account how fast a zombie attacks which means faster but low damage attacks have a much higher chance for crits. This probably has to be adapted.

 

[hiemfire]

Very sure they are immune. It doesn't make sense to program a bike to have a broken leg. BUT in A20 a corresponding damage system will be added for vehicles and then vehicles will get flat tires instead of broken legs.

K. With Drac realizing they had their settings turned up it kinda made my question moot though.