PC Anybody else annoyed with the AI?

[Khulkhuum]

FPS on my PC gets boggled down when the number of entities range from 50 to 75 (depending on the type), whereas zombie cops need less numbers to start my FPS sift away fast. I tested this for the sake of checking how many Zs i can have active at a time and this also was confirmed with spawning around 75 rabbits (FPS dropped).

I can imagine people with worse processors, graphic cards, less RAM and slower disks (i'm using a seperate SSD for bigger games and for my system, things going fast this way) can have a harder time this way. One thing i would want to check in the future is lowering the graphics settings so it runs as fast as possible and then seeing how many Zs can be spawned without huge FPS drops.

And if you're wondering what i mean FPS drops, it was from a stable over 30 to below 20 and sometimes down to 10.

 

[Cadamier]

Something many people either don't know or forget if they do know... TFP has said that A17 was a complete re-write of the game.

Let me emphasize that again: "A17 was a complete re-write of the game."

They also said that with the allotted time they had (to get A17 out) they did the best they could, got everything the best it could be basically. This is why we have Doctorates of Engineering as Zeds!

But with that comes the facts and experiences they have in moving forward. With that also includes a tonne of things least us forget that basically we're back at alpha 1 with a tonne of experience and everything else so progression should be a bit faster. Someone else noted that this current version of the AI is for the bandits... If/when we do get them OH S!!!!! lol

Yeah! They are annoying! We're doing our best to deal with them... But just imagine having to fight with Bandits with the current or 'better AI.' Oh MY!

 

[Viktoriusiii]

Something many people either don't know or forget if they do know... TFP has said that A17 was a complete re-write of the game.
Let me emphasize that again: "A17 was a complete re-write of the game."

I don't think a complete rewrite is what you think it means

I very VERY probably was just a fixing of code because they used new graphics and some physics interactions.

But they didnt program the game again Thats not how you do things

Obviously they had to do a complete "rewrite" with perks and projectiles but the base code is still more or less the same

 

[JCrook1028]

Actually no, Madmole has said that a lot of the base code was indeed rewritten. That's a lot of what Faatal is doing, fixing old nasty base code with newer better base code.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

What i don´t get is, why do they attack ramps so hard? Even when they need to turn away from you to do so? I have a ramp for the drawbridge and they love beating it. Turning their backs on me and even walking away from me to do so.

Also they still circle. Not around one thing all the time, but like at every 3rd grass block, or small tree or w/e they do a circle or two around before they continue to come towards me.

 

[Data]

Ai is not right at all

Pathing, is ridiculous, they are mindless zombies!! Not mathematical geniuses they are brain dead that want to eat yours, and should go straight for you and not suddenly discover that have the brain power of Einstein and figure out a maze of spikes

Or think about

“well I can't get him up there, but have just worked out, If I make a mental blueprint of this structure, and eradicate the 4 pillars, calculating that if I can remove that block that is nowhere near, my intended brain feed, I will be able to get my breakfast, even tho I shouldn’t be thinking in this way as I'm a mindless zombie”

 

[Roland]

Ai is not right at all
Pathing, is ridiculous, they are mindless zombies!! Not mathematical geniuses they are brain dead that want to eat yours, and should go straight for you and not suddenly discover that have the brain power of Einstein and figure out a maze of spikes

Or think about

“well I can't get him up there, but have just worked out, If I make a mental blueprint of this structure, and eradicate the 4 pillars, calculating that if I can remove that block that is nowhere near, my intended brain feed, I will be able to get my breakfast, even tho I shouldn’t be thinking in this way as I'm a mindless zombie”

It’s an illusion that you’ve convinced yourself is true. There is zero coding that directs zombies to target only load bearing supports. What the code actually does direct them to do is:

1) Path to you via the cheapest route possible.

2) Attack random nearby blocks when there is no possible path to you

and

3) Randomly sometimes abandon long paths and start attacking random nearby blocks.

Now if you have built a stilt base so that there are only a few nearby supports and they are all load bearing then, ya, they are going to bring you down. But sitting on the roof of a Working Stiffs store and then going down and surveying the damage the next day you will see the damage is random and not specifically targeting load bearing walls as an engineer would.

The pathing code only calculates the relative costs of all possible paths to you and sets the zombie on the cheapest one. It does NOT tell the zombies that this support column vs that support column will completely wreck the SI of your base.

 

[bdubyah]

It’s an illusion that you’ve convinced yourself is true. There is zero coding that directs zombies to target only load bearing supports. What the code actually does direct them to do is:
1) Path to you via the cheapest route possible.

2) Attack random nearby blocks when there is no possible path to you

and

3) Randomly sometimes abandon long paths and start attacking random nearby blocks.

Now if you have built a stilt base so that there are only a few nearby supports and they are all load bearing then, ya, they are going to bring you down. But sitting on the roof of a Working Stiffs store and then going down and surveying the damage the next day you will see the damage is random and not specifically targeting load bearing walls as an engineer would.

The pathing code only calculates the relative costs of all possible paths to you and sets the zombie on the cheapest one. It does NOT tell the zombies that this support column vs that support column will completely wreck the SI of your base.

You get out of here with your facts, pal!

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

THere is a path to me at my base and still they attack random blocks. It´s 5 rows of spikes and a wall of steel pillars that is in their way. Yet they hit the ramp aka random blocks. So it doesn´t really work that way in reality.

 

[OzHawkeye]

THere is a path to me at my base and still they attack random blocks. It´s 5 rows of spikes and a wall of steel pillars that is in their way. Yet they hit the ramp aka random blocks. So it doesn´t really work that way in reality.

And it's a good thing to - now, I don't how much randomness Fataal has already built into it, but as I understand it, there'll be more to come in later Alpha's making predicting a zombie path with absolute certainty an impossible task in future, since they will at random points abandon even a reasonable path to go and rage against the nearest block. That to me, will be a great thing when its fully developed, because it'll put paid to simple "funnel zombies to Room Of Doom" type base setups.

 

[bdubyah]

I just wish they'd set the horde up like a massive circle of zombie spawns around your location. They randomly spawn all around the circle and come straight for you. When they come up against a block, they attack it. No "pathing", just a dumb undead missile trying to get to you.

It doesn't have to be every single one, but the majority. You could still have ferals or rads be maybe a touch smarter or something. I like the idea of having to defend from every angle.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

It´s a good thing that i can be safe by building ramps around my base? Really? They could easily concentrate on the path to me and propably break trough during a horde night if i don´t pay attention.

I mean that´s like playing those simple bird shooters. They don´t even pay attention to me. It´s like shooting on a range.

 

[Data]

It’s an illusion that you’ve convinced yourself is true. There is zero coding that directs zombies to target only load bearing supports. What the code actually does direct them to do is:
1) Path to you via the cheapest route possible.

2) Attack random nearby blocks when there is no possible path to you

and

3) Randomly sometimes abandon long paths and start attacking random nearby blocks.

Now if you have built a stilt base so that there are only a few nearby supports and they are all load bearing then, ya, they are going to bring you down. But sitting on the roof of a Working Stiffs store and then going down and surveying the damage the next day you will see the damage is random and not specifically targeting load bearing walls as an engineer would.

The pathing code only calculates the relative costs of all possible paths to you and sets the zombie on the cheapest one. It does NOT tell the zombies that this support column vs that support column will completely wreck the SI of your base.

well thats just confirmed what i said, your points:-

1) Path to you via the cheapest route possible.

they shouldnt be thinking that way, how would they know what "the cheapest" route to me is, they are zombies, they "can't" think, should be direct no matter what

2) and 3) are the same apart from "abandon long paths", why would they think about going long paths? they "can't" think, should be direct no matter what

digging down not an issue, climbing/smahing upwards not a problem

 

[Fox]

well thats just confirmed what i said, your points:-
1) Path to you via the cheapest route possible.

they shouldnt be thinking that way, how would they know what "the cheapest" route to me is, they are zombies, they "can't" think, should be direct no matter what

2) and 3) are the same apart from "abandon long paths", why would they think about going long paths? they "can't" think, should be direct no matter what

digging down not an issue, climbing/smahing upwards not a problem

Even earth worms can path around obstacles... you're telling me zombies need to be dumber than that? They're capable of walking and attacking and feeding, but being able to go around an object, woah there... that's just too smart. Have you seen a zombie movie in the last century? Have you considered the fact that zombies don't exist and however "smart" the devs try to make them shouldn't matter in the grand scheme of things? They're trying to make a fun game, not make the enemy boring and exploitable without effort like you seem to be interested in.

 

[meganoth]

they shouldnt be thinking that way, how would they know what "the cheapest" route to me is, they are zombies, they "can't" think, should be direct no matter what

Get yourself a dog. Watch it perform unimaginable feats of intelligence. Compare dogs to what zombies do in movies. Draw conclusions.

It´s a good thing that i can be safe by building ramps around my base? Really?

There definitely is still a bug/misconfiguration with ramps (in 17.3 at least). I saw zombies circling on a ramp that was not even close to my horde base and had nothing to do with it. As if they valued height 10 times more than position. I thought about sending this as a bug report to TFP.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

@meganoth Well looking at what Oz posted this seems to be intenional to a certain point. That´s what bothering me.

 

[Aldranon]

On 60 minute days, each forge has the ability to make enough cement for 1440 concrete mix each game day, so that's a bit over 10k concrete mix to spend on each 7 day horde, per forge burning stone.

So:

I tested a horde on a pure brute strength fort (no trick or traps) that had two pukers and some radiated with the remainder of the 32 being normal zeds.

After:

-The damage after 15 minutes (10pm-4am) was less than 500 mix and 15 rebar frames as 15 blocks were completely destroyed. Even though one or both pukers started spam puking at my base.

-No blocks on the 2nd or 3rd layer of the primary wall were broken, not to mention the 6 3x3 support pillars inside the Working Stiffs (my favorite POI).

Why:

-I don't shoot zombies without a good reason as experience without loot/resources is currently a minus.

Edit: Although I do clear the zombies out in the morning.

 

[meganoth]

@meganoth Well looking at what Oz posted this seems to be intenional to a certain point. That´s what bothering me.

I was not talking about the random attacking pattern.

A substantial part of the horde was making a detour just so they could run up that ramp. If that were just because of the rule to sometimes attack random blocks, they would have simply attacked the ramp, not run up.

Also an equally large part would have hit other blocks or structures in the path to me, but those other walls and structures only got a few stray zombies.

 

[Data]

Even earth worms can path around obstacles... you're telling me zombies need to be dumber than that? They're capable of walking and attacking and feeding, but being able to go around an object, woah there... that's just too smart. Have you seen a zombie movie in the last century? Have you considered the fact that zombies don't exist and however "smart" the devs try to make them shouldn't matter in the grand scheme of things? They're trying to make a fun game, not make the enemy boring and exploitable without effort like you seem to be interested in.




Well yes obviously, earth worms have a brain that can detect their surroundings they have a thinking brain, and of course I know that zombies don’t exist, it’s a game, but get it right!

Zombies don’t have a functional brain, they are and should be direct, they sense you, smell you, and want to get to you using the most direct straight as method possible, not thinking about surroundings, they shouldn’t have that capacity, they are dead but only crave to eat you as fast as possible, not thinking other ways to get to you

Yes I've seen movies, and tv shows, take the walking dead, look at how those zeds just impale themselves on spikes etc., they don’t do pathing

@meganoth

“…….Get yourself a dog. Watch it perform unimaginable feats of intelligence. Compare dogs to what zombies do in movies. Draw conclusions………”

Pointless reply, as a dog has a working brain, it thinks and learns

Again, zombies have only 1 rule and direction, to eat you, to get to you

 

[bdubyah]

Even earth worms can path around obstacles... you're telling me zombies need to be dumber than that? They're capable of walking and attacking and feeding, but being able to go around an object, woah there... that's just too smart. Have you seen a zombie movie in the last century? Have you considered the fact that zombies don't exist and however "smart" the devs try to make them shouldn't matter in the grand scheme of things? They're trying to make a fun game, not make the enemy boring and exploitable without effort like you seem to be interested in.


Well yes obviously, earth worms have a brain that can detect their surroundings they have a thinking brain, and of course I know that zombies don’t exist, it’s a game, but get it right!

Zombies don’t have a functional brain, they are and should be direct, they sense you, smell you, and want to get to you using the most direct straight as method possible, not thinking about surroundings, they shouldn’t have that capacity, they are dead but only crave to eat you as fast as possible, not thinking other ways to get to you

Yes I've seen movies, and tv shows, take the walking dead, look at how those zeds just impale themselves on spikes etc., they don’t do pathing

@meganoth

“…….Get yourself a dog. Watch it perform unimaginable feats of intelligence. Compare dogs to what zombies do in movies. Draw conclusions………”

Pointless reply, as a dog has a working brain, it thinks and learns

Again, zombies have only 1 rule and direction, to eat you, to get to you

That is very subjective depending on the lore TFP are going with. You have TWD's slow, dumb zombies and then you have ones like WWZ, 28 Days Later and the like. Just because you think they should be a certain way, doesn't mean that's how they should be.

Now, as mentioned, there are some bugs I'd like to see fixed. And I would prefer if they didn't avoid spikes and stuff quite so actively.